20,000 gvw trailer do you need CDL

chev crew cab diesel and tandem dual 20,000 lb gvw with 2- 7000 lb tractors do I need CDL combination license??

I was told at work and calling my union hall to verify it is 20,001 lbs starts CDL required,or air brakes.That doesnt mean its correct.

All depends on what you are hauling and who it is for. And where you are at?

Here in Iowa I can haul my own tractor between farms on a semi at 60,000 lbs. with no CDL.

Cannot haul a cow for hire in the back of my up pickup without a CDL.

Gary

I beleive that you will find in most places you can drive a single vehicle up to 26000# without a CDL, BUT if you start towing a trailer OVER 10000#, then you need a CDL or some form of special endorsment on your licence. We do here anyhow.
For a pickup, a heavy trailer endorsement would do...

Rod

I think it depends on where you are and where you're going and who the tractors belong to and why you're hauling them and............this comes up at least once per month and leads to a lot of discussion and there is NO ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL ANSWER. And that's just my opinion and I've got lots of opinions..........

2 7000lb tractors plus 1 7000lb trailer plus one 7000lb pickup= 28000lbs gvw. So yes you need a cdl. whether you get caught or not or it is enforced or not is another thing. other states will interpet differently. ifta stickers and log books side plackards may also be needed.Paul

If you are over the 26,001 limit Or towing a trailer over 10,000 then you will need it if not then no. Now if you go out and run for hire you will need the CDL plus commercial insurance medical card and if you go across state lines then apportioned plates.
You will what to get a US DOT number or risk that debate on the side of the road one day.
All just another way to keep track of what your doing. Just in case the GOV. thinks they didn't get there unfair share. LOL

Let me try to choose why words correctly because the other guys have beat all around the answer but have not hit it on the head.

If you have the potential to weigh 26,001 lbs or more you need a CDL. As long as your rig is not rated for this weight you are OK.
Potential means your rig is capable of hauling this weight by adding GVWR for each unit.

If you need a CDL and your trailer has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs or more you need a class A CDL.

John,
I have to disagree with part or your statement on the trailer over 10K.
If I understand Michigan.gov I do not need a CDL if my total combination is under 26K.

My truck 8600, My trailer 15,300 = 24900.

Rick

Heres the info from Michigan.gov

Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR)** is 26,001 pounds or more.

I read the word WHEN the total goes over 26K I need a CDL, if the total is under 26K, the trailer is fine being over 10K.

What do you think?
Rick

With some exceptions in some states (farm use with restrictions on distance and nature of cargo would be one), the basic weight break for a CDL is 26,000. There's some nuances to that for straight jobs and trailers.

Your ratings, not your load, will determine the rate factor. A pickup like mine (Long-cab, long-bed Ram, with a Cummins, rated for 9900#) can pull a trailer rated for 14,000 (gooseneck, two 7k single-wheel axles) without a CDL. Total weight rating 23,900. If the trailer has two 10k dually axles, the sum of the two ratings would be 29,900 and require a CDL even running empty. So if the combined GVWRs (different from the Gross Combined Weight Rating of the pickup) of the truck and trailer is under 26k, you're okay for a license, but you still need to be careful not to exceed the rated limit of any axle on either, and not to exceed total GVWR on the truck. (Unlike a trailer, the sum of the individual axle ratings on a pickup is usually significantly more that the GVWR -- both axles could be within their rated capacity, but thei total could exceed the truck's over all rating.)

But then there's the matter of a DOT number (maybe that's what you're thinking of), which is required for commercial operation in excess of only 10,000#, which is a whole other can of worms and gets into things like drug-testing, logbooks and commercial minimum insurance. There are exception to this, too, but they're narrow (like hauling horses but, oddly enough, not other livestock).

Now I have always argued that there's nothing commercial about taking a tractor to a tractor show or hauling a tractor home as a favor for a friend or relative who just bought one, so that, in the absence of a commercial use, one need not have the DOT number. But the fellow with the mirrored sunglasses and the citation book will see it differently. At the least he will hit you with a costly ticket or three (no DOT#, no log book, inadequate insurance for commercial operation . . .). At worst, he'll red-tag your rig. Non-compliance is a civil, not a criminal offense, so innocent-until-proven-guilty doesn't apply. He doesn't have to prove you were operating commercially. You have to hire a lawyer and go to court to prove that you weren't. That's a pain in the neck and costly at the least, whether you win or lose with the judge, but of very little help if you get red-tagged, in which case you've got to find somebody with a DOT# to come pick up your trailer top finish the trip. Worst scenario for getting red-tagged is without a trailer -- a dually rated for over 10k and something that Ossifer Friendly deems to be commercial cargo in the bed. If he red tags you for that, you'll have to have yourself towed to get home.

I say it ain't right, I can argue it here, I can take my chances and argue it in court if one of them plays that game with me, but guaranteed neither you nor I will win my argument on the side of the road. DOT enforcement is as much as, if not more so, a matter of revenue gneration from fines than a matter of highway safety.

I would go to your Sec. of State web site. You can find your answere there, or go to your S. O.S. Drivers license office and ask them if your not sure..

Hey I should have typed 26001 not 20001.Sorry.

Here in Oklahoma a dually wheel dual axle is a flag for the weight police. BTDT. A single wheel dual axle will not usually be stopped unless it is obviously overweight. Something to think about- The owner at my previous job went to the trailer manufacturer and got him to make new ratings (Lower) stickers for certain trailers. I personally talked to the trailer company owner and he insisted this was legal. His trailer ratings are based almost entirely on axle and tire capacities. I wanted confirmation since the driver (Me) had to pay fines. Also if you have a farm tag on your truck and are hauling farm related items they will wave you off IF you dont appear to be Grossly overloaded. BTDT as well. Be polite and courteous to the man and it goes a long way. Good Luck, Wilson

Licensing requirements, your license and plating from your home state is good as long as you're in compliance with your home-state regs. Commerce clause of the constitution sees to that point. But if, say, I got caught in MN with Maine farm plates and a load on, or if my truck or trailer exceedd their rgistered limits, I'd be too far from home and out of compliance.

26k for a CDL is pretty much universal. The states had to adopt it if they wanted to keep their federal highway funds.

If the combined gross weight of the
truck
trailer
tractors
DO NOT go over 26,001lbs you'll be OK
Make sure that the GVWR (gross weight that the truck AND cargo are) of the pick up is rated to pull that much weight. Tractors and trailer, I would guess have a combined weight of around 16,000 to 18,000+lbs? With a pick up that size pulling that much weight, you're bound top attract attention

Sigh! If only that were true. I could tie you up all day with what I went through trying to get answers just registering my stuff.

The following questions have been taken up with two different DMV offices, two state troopers, one diesel bear, the town office where we register things and two offices in the capital:

State regs require commercial plates on a vehicle rated in excess of 8000#. My pickup weighs just shy of that when parked with me in it, and is rated for 9900#, and so has commercial plates. Is operation of my pickup for personal use with nothing in tow subject to any of the restrictions place on commercial vehicles? Must I carry the higher minimum insurance coverage required for commercial vehicles? Am I allowed to stop at the store and transport a six-pack home in my pickup?

Regs require a commercial vehicle inspection (more detailed and inspection stations charge by the hour instead of the usual flat-rate) for vehicles rated in excess of 10,000#. My truck is rated for less, but my gooseneck is rated for 14k. Does the trailer require a commercial inspection?

What constitutes commercial operation? Specific case, my step-daughter bought four tons of wood pellet for her stove. I hauled them to her home on my gooseneck, without charge or compensation of any sort. Is that commercial? Suppose I did the same for a neighbor, who is not related?

My pickup is rated for 9900#. Are there any requirements that kick in when I hitch to a trailer rated in excess of 100# (read "ANY trailer")?

For everything I've typed above that ends with a question mark, I have been given at least two and as many as four (with different twists)conflicting answers by some combination of the regulatory agencies and the folks on the roads who enforce the regs.

A phone call won't cover your boot, and there ain't nothin' simple about it.

The point that a lot of people miss is there are two sets of rules. In state only is one set, interstate is another. If you cross state lines then you are governed by the more restrictive of 1. Federal Motor Carrier regs, or 2. The state you are hauling in. Most states are pretty uniform in these for interstate commerce.

If you arent crossing state lines then there are a host of local exceptions, exemptions, special tags, and special permits. You may not have to have a CDL but you may have to have a medical card or DOT number, or neither, or both.

John in la and Caterpillar guy have really good answers. Bottom line, a Class B CDL can be used for towing a trailer that does not exceed 10,000# (5 tons) trailer and cargo combined. Over that requires Class A.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

A Class B CDL is for straight trucks in excess of 26K. Picture a heavy dump truck.

A Class A CDL covers truck and trailer combinations in excess of 26k, where the weight of the trailer exceeds 10k.

By those rules, the driver of a heavy (26k+) truck may tow a trailer weighing less than 10k (picture a big compressor on wheels) on a Class B. Any trailer heavier than 10k requires a Class A.

Nowhere do I see a requirement for a Class A or B CDL to operate a combination with a weight less than 26k, regardless of the weight of the trailer.

Here's what I would do. Weigh the truck and trailer together empty. Then weigh each tractor you plan to haul. Add together and you have your gross combined weight. Check the sticker in the door jamb to see if the truck is rated for the total amount. If you're under the trucks maximum, then stop in at your local D.O.T. office, or what ever the name for it is in your state. Tell them what you want to do and say what is required to be legal. Have them print it up on their letterhead so if you get stopped, the cop on the road will maybe think twice about making up his own rules and writing tickets.

Ducks1, Don't take anybodies word for it. If you get stopped, you can't say so and so said this or that.
Visit www.fmcsa.dot.gov
Find the information you need and print it. All the CDL regulations are there.

need a class A for all combnations

I ran into the who pays the fines thing with a previous employer. Thumbnail sketch is they choose an unqualified shop to make repairs they didn't know how to do correctly. I got ticketed and tagged out of service. The boss didn't think they needed to pay the fines. I said "Your truck." They said "You were driving."
My ex worked for the DOT then and found out that if the tickets went unpaid my license would be suspended until the tickets were paid, and the owner of the truck would have their single state permits suspended and registrations frozen until the tickets were paid. What it amounts to is the company would not be able to operate/register ANY vehicle in the state. The frozen registrations stop them from just registering in another state. I said, "Do you really want to have to call the home office to tell them they're not going to be able to operate anything in the state?" (Iowa)I picked up his phone, dialed the number my ex had given me and said "Here, Terry Cox wants to talk to you."
No, I didn't pay the fines or work there much longer, but think about it. Would you really want to work somewhere that treats their people so poorly?

in minnesota you will be issued a ticked for no cdl for trailer licensed over 10,000, no math is required, nothing to add, doesn't matter how heavy it is, what it's licensed for,, I just smile when they pull me over and I hand them mine, they though they got me good, they like to pull 1 ton trucks with trailers over they have fun, and also dip the tanks to make sure no off road fuel there..

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

In a word, yes. My Ford F350 has a gvwr of 11500. If I hook a trailer rated at 20,000# then my total gvwr is 31,500 which puts me over the 26000 mark. Here is a link to the Kansas site and the Kansas CDL handbook. It is exactly the same as the federal book as Kansas goes by the fed standards.
CDL handbook

When do I need a Minnesota CDL instead of my regular Minnesota Drivers License?
A Minnesota CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.

If you're holdin' a MN license and drivin' on their plates that may be the case.

Here in ME the fed guidelines apply and even MN has to honor that.

10k+ on a trailer don't mean a thing here unless the tow vehicle is rated for 26k+, and all it means then is that you'd better have a Class A in your wallet. And anybody enforcin' the rules in MN is bound to honor the conditions under which my license and plates were issued.

When do I need a Maine CDL instead of my regular Maine Drivers License?
A Maine CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.


What are the eligibility requirements to obtain a Maine CDL?
1. You must be 21 years old. (18 years if all commercial driving is done within Maine and if no hazardous materials requiring placarding are transported and if you do not drive double or triple trailer rigs).
2. You must be physically capable of obtaining a valid medical examiner's card (before taking any CDL skills test).
3. You must otherwise qualify for the license based on your driving record. Any of the following will disqualify you from obtaining a Maine CDL . . .
* If you possess a license from any state other than Maine.
* If you are currently subject to any disqualification of your commercial driving privilege from Maine or any other state.
* If your license is currently suspended, revoked, denied, or cancelled.
* If you have a conviction for operating a commercial motor vehicle while impaired in the 24 months immediately preceding application.
* other technical rules, and further restrictions that pertain only to Maine are covered in detail within the Course.


How do I obtain a Maine CDL?
1. Show your Maine driver license.
2. You must take and pass all Maine examinations that apply to your license class and endorsement requirements.
3. Show proof of social security number.
4. Meet Maine driver record eligibility requirements as determined by the State.
5. Fill out an application including certifications.
6. Pass the required knowledge and vision tests (BEFORE a CDL Temporary Instruction Permit will be issued).
7. Pay the Maine CDL fees.
8. Schedule, take, and pass your Maine CDL skills test.
THE COURSE COVERS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW TO PASS THE WRITTEN AND SKILLS EXAMS FOR ALL CLASSES OF LICENSE AND LICENSE ENDORSEMENTS AVAILABLE.

Read your post above again. #2 is Class A. #1 is Class B. I don't see any mention of needing a CDL for a trailer over 10k unless the tow vehicle is over 26k. So waht're they pullin' y'over for?

On the tank dippin' side, a friend of mine and his dad have a pretty fair-sized company that hauls jet fuel for the Feds. The deliververy skeds and windows on their contract are pretty tight and their drivers are known to move right along. State troopers have learned who they are and what they're haulin' and generally leave 'em alone.

The friend has a truck on the side to serve a pretty good-size heatin' oil route. Happened one night that after he left the rack, the best way to his first delivery was over the Interstate. Diesel bear nabbed him for havin' a tail-light obscured by snow. They got by that issue, but diesel bear insisted on dippin' the tank. My friend invites him to dip away, and suggests that he give it a whiff before he looks it over too closely. Gas motor in the truck.

"in minnesota you will be issued a ticked for no cdl for trailer licensed over 10,000, no math is required, nothing to add, doesn't matter how heavy it is, what it's licensed for"

Thank you, but I'm still lookin' for the part that says you need a CDL for any trailer rated over 10k, regardless of the weight of the tow vehicle.

MN's reads pretty much the same as ME's. You can drive a straight truck rated for 60k on a Class B. You can even put a trailer behind it as long as it's a light one. The instant that trailer is over 10k, you need a Class A. As long as the combined rig is rated and registered for under 26k, no CDL is needed in MN or ME, regardless of the weight of the trailer. And the troopers in ME and MN are required to honor each others' licenses and registrations.

(quoted from post at 07:40:12 02/13/09) 2 7000lb tractors plus 1 7000lb trailer plus one 7000lb pickup= 28000lbs gvw. So yes you need a cdl. whether you get caught or not or it is enforced or not is another thing. other states will interpet differently. ifta stickers and log books side plackards may also be needed.Paul

Click to expand...

Skip, you are 100% correct. I will also add that once you are over that 26,001 pounds mark, it makes NO difference if you are hauling for hire or hauling your own stuff. It is a safety issue. They want to make sure you know how to drive a vehicle that is that large and is that heavy. They do not care if you are getting paid to drive it.

As I stated in an earlier response, Go to www.fmcsa.dot.gov

Everything you need to know about CDL regs is there, and some things you wish you didn't know.

There are regulations for Interstate and INTRASTATE driving.

i have been stopped for not stopping at weigh stations with my dualie and trailer. i explain the following: first, i am not a commercial vehicle and haul my own equipment. second, i am not being paid for driving. third, i qualify as a recreational vehicle, as i am hauling something for pleasure (like say a camper). A CDL, which stands for a Commercial Driver"s License, is just that. if you are not being paid a fee, are going to or coming from a tractor or equipment show (which is called recreation), and are hauling your own stuff, you should not have a problem. however, when you start running a truck with a trailer that is either a 5th wheel or gooseneck, your vehicle becomes articulated and may put the vehicle in question. also adding to this, the weight issue that some of these trailers can carry, whether they be double axle or triple axle, single or dual wheels, etc. the water starts to get muddy when you are looking at the laws and trying to apply them to vehicles which have the capacity to carry combinations of weights in excess of 26,000 lbs. lastly, how your vehicles, both truck and trailer, are registered makes a difference as to whether or not the laws might be applicable. combination, commercial, or truck plates for the pickup, camper, trailer, commercial trailer registrations for the trailers all make it difficult to know how to register your vehicles. from my own experience, if you have these topics understood and can apply your vehicle stats to them, how you use this information when you get stopped usually helps with you getting a ticket or being told to go about your business. also, how your truck and trailer looks goes a long way as to whether or not the police officer will be inclined to give you a ticket or letting you go. keep a clean truck and trailer, maintain it with good brakes and safe tires, no oil leaks, make sure all your lights work, and don"t drive these vehicles like they were stolen. i do not stop at weigh stations when i am hauling my gooseneck camper, and i don"t stop for them when i have a few deeres on the back of my trailer headed for a show or for home. just my 2 cents.

The other thing they have been doing the last few years is pulling the guy's over with the goose neck trailer and the race car going to the track, and going to the consignment auction, they consider that to be "engaging in commerce" and will ticket for no dot number, and current dot inspection, no cdl. and they have really been going after the landscaping guy's here the last few years for the same deal

if you look close the RV licensed stuff is all exempt no matter the weight..

The last time on the way to south dakota they were along the road in a small town stopping all diesel pickup's and trucks with trailers, had a bunch of us backed up on the side of the street, they had 2 clowns that stood on the north end of town pointing for everyone to pull into the line on the shoulder, I didn't even have a trailer that day, then 4 more checking break-away brakes, tires insurance and the rest, just took me a half hour to get through it..

the 10,000 to 10,001 pounds break used to be printed on the back of all drivers licenses years ago, it's still the same, ours was listed in the last drivers manual I saw the wife was looking at, the only thing is several years ago all states adoped the same rules, they just choose what they are going to really enforce, when you drive in Nebraska you see the sign at the scales that say's all pickups with trailer must stop, here if you go by with a gooseneck trailer and they see you they probably will come out after you, they even do that in michigan..
One of the other things they like when they stop a guy with a good size trailer is the little rule for them to make more money, that say's, the towing veicle shall have a gwvr equal to or greater than the trailer, so 15,000 pound trailer better have 15,000 tags on the truck. they make more money on that every year when you renew your tabs...
When I go through the scale for the first time of the day going back and forth they have a guy looking at my paperwork and the first thing the other guy does and check the break away brakes and hitch, the next time through they wave me through..

Makes no difference what the weight is at all, they look at the gvwr on the plate, weather empty or loaded that number is the rule of the day and doesn't change, that is what they go by, you just better not be over it if they put you on the scale..

it's fun isin't it, I finally dropped the gvwr down to 15,000 for both the truck and trailer, went to get the tabs for both of them yesterday and it's the first time in many years that I didn't have to explain to them what the rules for my truck were, over the last few years I must have stood there an extra 20 minutes explaining thing to them..
of course the big rumor is that they are trying to require dot numbers for everything here in the near future, even if you haul your own stuff in the same state it's regestered in, the only thing that will be a pain for me is the dot inspection sticker for truck and trailer every year, everything else I have for my regular job..
The big green machines sure slowed down moving out of iowa the last couple months, was a lot going to canada this fall and now nothing really moving..

I read all of the others answers and they were right.If you can haul more than 26001 lbs(which basically means you have a trailer with dual wheels and 2 axles)you need a CDL.Im not sure what other combinations like a gooseneck,or 4 single wheel axles,but if you are rated to haul more than 26001 lbs they are going to make you have a CDL everywhere.If you look at their side of it,its kind of necessary because there are people that haul stuff around way overloaded and this can cause a wreck,I saw a farmer with a dually ton truck,a gooseneck hay trailer for big round bales, hauling hay on the interstate,pulling a big hill,automatic transmission got hot,caught the whole thing on fire and closed the road until fire trucks came and put it out.So another problem is if you have to stop all of that weight you might be alright for a while if you have good new brake linings,then as you use this thing way overloaded for a few trips you might not be able to stop very well or at all.Then the rest of it is pure revenue.They will a lot of times try to find things to write tickets for,or at least give you a hard time.The FMSCA are the ones that you should ask,maybe find the laws and print them out from the FMSCA website.Not always,but most usually the state goes along with their laws.The state can be more strict,and have different laws for different roads.If you run on the Interstate thats the FMSCA laws and State laws which should agree for the most part,off the Interstate its State laws which could be less or more strict depending on the road you want to use.As far as hauling something is concerned,as long as whats on the truck is yours,and you are below 26000,I think you would be alright as long as you arent over the rating of your tires,or over the weight rating of any of your axles.Now say you haul a pallet for your neighbor.Just buy it,haul it home,then sell it to him.When a DOT man asks for your bills of what you are hauling,and it has your name on it,technically you own it.Whats to say as soon as you got home you decided you didnt need it any more and sold it to your neighbor?As long as you arent crossing the same scales all the time with different pallets of stuff to where they are going to know you are commercial,you might be alright.Now you might want to ask somebody besides me,but I have been told that was how to do it.Basically you dont want anything on your truck that you dont own,and you might want to carry proof that you own it to keep from having trouble.

These threads should be deleted as soon as they are started. They are usually full of obviously wrong information. The truth of the matter is that no one knows! The drivers license stations don't know, the DOT doesn't know, the state police don't know. The laws are trying to be enforced by 3 or 4 different agencies. At least in this state. The right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing. And vice versa. What do I do? Load the trailer and drive. I've been in at least 15 states and have never stopped any where or been stopped by anyone. I just drive. The only one that matters is some judge that might have to sort this mess out someday, somewhere. I also think the "Transporting Your Tractor" forum needs to go bye bye too! Just too much bad information there.

Copied from digest of Ohio motor vehicle laws.Pg 14 - Who needs a CDL. (1)Any combination of vehicles with a combined gross vehicle rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

if it's over 26,000 it doesn't matter, the rules will be exactly the same..

one size does fit all, your either under the limit or over, doesn't matter if your empty or loaded, goes by the "regestered" Gvw, the only difference I have seen between states over the last 20 years is the limit they post at the scales to pull in, in minnesota it's 10,000, wisconsin it's 9,000, loaded or empty doesn't matter one bit, if your pulling a trailer with 15,000 registered gvw the truck pulling it better be 15,000 or greater registered gvw, the signs there don't say "commercial" it goes by weight, just because you haven't been run down just means you have been lucky, the only exception is for registered RV plates, they don't care about that, and most states only require out of state charter busses to stop, other than that it's the same has been for years..
The only thing that can change is what your state may require above and beyone for dot numbers and such some do, some don't but if you run out of state and oh well..
If you have something on the trailer you better hope they don't get mad and can prove it's not owned by you, you can haul your own stuff and that's one thing, if it belongs to anyone other than you and that's another can of worms,, especially if you are involved in an accident, no fault of your own..
Things are going to get worse, they claim they are not collection enough cash so they will not be turning their heads as much from now on, lots of memo's been sent out to the field guy's in the last 6 months about lack of enforcement..

The man with the FMSCA patch on his arm is the law at a scalehouse.Most of the time what he says is what is going to go,he is the Federal law.In the case of a wreck,its the Highway Patrol,City,County whoever they decide has jurisdiction.That means they know the law for the road you are on,ignorance of the law is no excuse,so you need to know the law on the roads you are on.They dont change the law to get you,but they like to not tell you what the law is until they"catch"you breaking it.Asking a cop anything is frustrating most of the time.They will tell you stuff you know is a lie,but they will get away with it because its their interpretation of the law.That means the law is what whatever cop,judge,state,city thinks they can get away with.For the most part,if you can understand what they wrote,its usually stated in the front of an atlas,good enough to get you across a state on the Interstate.Now depending on what you do,what you look like you are doing,and even how crooked the area is,you could still get in trouble.The best thing is to read for the states you want to travel in and see if you can satisfy everybodys laws.On the Interstate you should be able to travel.Not always,but on most State roads,travel information can be found in an atlas,or somewhere about that road.A lot of times State laws are less strict than the FMSCA.

Have you read Gary's post 2 or 3 lines down..........in Classic view?

ag and farm rules are a state by state deal and a whole new ball game, some states pretty much have no weight limit, but distance you can haul from where the truck is registered is limited, you can't go to texas and haul a D-8 home

what was the wrong information, this has been pretty standard state to state for years, think they started to standardise this in 1986 or there about, the cops don't know usually, the dot knows but will not commit to anything unless they are writing a ticket you, they don't give "advise", we haven't even gotten to the part about the load being properly secured yet..

Most of us were answering (or not) ducks1's question, given the information he provided.......

Rick
If you read the words I wrote and quit reading what you think I said you might see I said the same thing you did.

You only need a CDL if your combined weight rating (potential to weigh when fully loaded) is 26,001 or more. It really does not matter what you weigh because they go on rating or potential to weight.

[b:654c4848f0]If you need a CDL[/b:654c4848f0] because your CGWR is 26,001 lbs or over and the trailer has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs or more then you need a class A CDL.

John is right, Rick you need to slow down and read what people are saying.
BP

I still say as long as the total weight doesn't exceed the vehicle manufacturer's ratings, go to the appropriate governing body in your state and ask them what is required to be legal, then do what they tell you. If they say you need a CDL, get one. Let them tell you whats needed for compliance, don't try to guess on your own.
In Iowa, the DOT will come to your place of business, look things over, and help you get into compliance if you ask them to. They don't come to write tickets, just show how to avoid them legally.
Yes it stinks to have to take time away from work, but the amount in fines can quickly surpass a days wages. The hassle of dealing with the DOT now will surely save major headaches and ruined weekends on the side of the road.

For all you guys arguing about "not for hire", etc- All a CMV requires is that you receive compensation for your driving or otherwise have a monetary interest in the load. IOW- A farmer (outside his 150 mi exemption) may not be "paid" for driving, but he has a monetary interest in that load he has on. The guy taking parts to a swap meet to sell has a monetary interest, the guy delivering firewood, the guys hauling a stock car to the race that COULD place for $$$$. We discussed this at length in every DOT class I attended and it's just the way it is. So as a retired Trooper and DOT Inspector my advice is play it safe and at least TRY to follow the regs. It'll be cheaper and less hassle for you in the long run.

John in la.

1st... you are right. When I read what you wrote, it was the same as I said.

2nd... I either read what I wanted or read too fast. Probably both.

You wrote...

If you need a CDL and your trailer has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs or more you need a class A CDL.

That last part of "need a class A CDL" tripped me up.

Have a good one,
Rick

The original question is an easy one to answer. Yes you need a CDL. GCWR will be over 26,000 lbs. The only way it won't is if you pull the trailer with an S10 or a Colorado. (pickup under 6000 GVWR). Then CDL is not required, but they should fine you for being Stupid! However, in Iowa for sure I can license my 4 cylinder S10 to 13 tons and pull that trailer legally!

In Minnesota the licensed weight rating has nothing to do with determining whether or not a vehicle will be considered a commercial vehicle. If a vehicle carries people or goods and is used in commerce it may be a commercial vehicle. The next step is to look at the manufacturers weight rating. If the MWR can not be determined then the actual loaded weight is used. The license weight rating only comes into play if the actual loaded weight is more than you are licensed for.

DOT inspections are required for all CMVs over 26000 lbs in intrastate use and all vehicles over 10000 lbs if used interstate.

This is from Michigan CDL, read the last part about exemtions. If your commercial then you need a CDL.


Who Needs a CDL?
Any resident who intends to operate:
�� VEHICLES:
• Having a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
�� COMBINATION VEHICLES:
• Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more with a gross combination
weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more.
�� ANY VEHICLES:
• Designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver)
• Carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placards.
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the recommended maximum total weight of the vehicle and load as
designated by the vehicle manufacturer. The GVWR label is usually found on the driver side door post of the
power unit and on or near the front of the trailer. The GVWR should not be confused with the elected GVW which
is declared by the vehicle owner for registration purposes.
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum
loaded weight of a combination vehicle. In the absence of a label, the GCWR will be calculated by adding the
GVWR of the power unit to the GVWR of the vehicle(s) or trailer(s) being towed.
iv
What Are the Driving Record Eligibility Requirements?
Before a person may apply for an original CDL, they must qualify for the CDL based on their driver record. Any of
the following will disqualify a person from applying for a CDL:
�� The inability to make required certifications on the CDL Certification Form (BFS-103). See Appendix A.
�� Having a license from more than one state.
�� An active Michigan or out-state suspension, revocation, denial, or cancellation of a person’s driving privilege.
The license action must be resolved before a person can apply for an original CDL.
Any active suspension must be terminated before a person may apply for a CDL.
�� A suspension or revocation in the 36 months immediately preceding application.
NOTE: Suspensions for, Failure to Appear in Court (FAC), Failure to Comply with a Court Judgment
(FCJ), failure to appear for a Driver Assessment re-examination, financial responsibility, nonsufficient
funds checks, and a suspension or revocation for a temporary medical condition will not
disqualify an applicant for a CDL.
�� Conviction of any six-point violation in the 24 months immediately preceding application. Conviction for
operating a commercial motor vehicle while impaired in the 24 months immediately preceding application.
How Old Must I Be To Obtain a CDL?
You must be age 21 to drive a commercial motor vehicle across state lines (interstate). You may drive a
commercial motor vehicle in Michigan (intrastate) at age 18; except to transport hazardous materials in a
quantity that requires the vehicle be marked or placarded, you must be age 21 or older.
What are the Driver Qualification Requirements for the CDL?
Unless exempt, you must comply with the federal commercial driver qualification requirements, including the
medical/physical qualifications found in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, 49 CFR Part 391 —
Qualifications of Drivers. This includes drivers who operate commercial vehicles only in Michigan. When
applying for your CDL, you will sign a certification form (BFS -103 — see Appendix A) that states you meet these
requirements before receiving your CDL. Before taking any CDL driver skills tests, you must provide a valid
Medical Examiner’s Certificate (commonly known as a DOT card) or medical waiver to your examiner allowing
you to operate your truck or bus. Ask your employer about these medical/physical and other driver qualification
requirements.
How Can I Get Additional Information on Medical/Physical Requirements?
�� Intrastate (in Michigan) medical/physical requirements and state commercial truck and bus rules and
regulations, contact: Michigan Center for Truck Safety. Internet: www.truckingsafety.org
�� Interstate (across state lines) medical/physical requirements and the Federal Motor Carrier Safety
Regulations for trucks and buses, contact: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, 315 W. Allegan
St., Room 205, Lansing, Michigan 48933; 517/377-1866. Note: The Lansing FMCSA office does not
distribute any forms or sell the FMCSR rulebooks. Internet: www.fmcsa.dot.gov.
�� School bus medical/physical requirements and other school bus regulations, contact: Michigan Department
of Education, Office of School Support Services, P.O. Box 30008, Lansing, Michigan 48909; 517/373-
6388. Internet: www.michigan.gov/mde.
v
What Type of CDL Do I Need?
A Michigan resident needs a CDL with the appropriate group designation to operate the following vehicles:
�� GROUP A:
• Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more,
provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed is 10,001 pounds or more.
A Group A endorsement will allow a driver to operate a Group B or Group C vehicle provided he/she possess
required endorsement(s).
�� GROUP B:
• Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, or, any such
vehicle, towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,000 pounds or less.
A Group B endorsement will allow a driver to operate a Group C vehicle provided he/she possess the required
endorsement(s).
�� GROUP C
Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or less, or combination of vehicles and the GVWR of the
vehicle being towed is 10,000 pounds or less designed to:
o Transport 16 or more persons (including the driver).
o Transport hazardous materials in amounts requiring placards.
What Endorsements Do I Need?
In addition to the appropriate CDL vehicle group designation, endorsements are required to operate the following:
�� T DOUBLE or TRIPLE TRAILERS: (Triple trailer combinations are not permitted in Michigan).
�� P PASSENGER: For vehicles which are designed to carry 16 or more people (including the driver).
�� N TANK: For vehicles designed to haul liquids or liquefied gases in bulk in permanently mounted cargo tanks
rated at 119 gallons or more or portable cargo tanks rated at 1,000 gallons or more.
�� HAZARDOUS MATERIALS: To carry hazardous materials in amounts requiring placards.
�� X Combined TANK and HAZARDOUS MATERIAL Endorsements - When an applicant adds both the tank
and hazardous materials endorsements to their driver license.
�� S SCHOOL BUS for commercial motor vehicles used to transport pre-primary, primary, or secondary school
students from home to school, school to home, or to and from school sponsored events.
vi
Are There CDL Exemptions?
The following people do NOT need a Commercial Driver License (CDL):
�� ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY: Operating military vehicles with military licenses (includes National Guard).
�� POLICE AND FIREFIGHTERS: Operating authorized emergency vehicles.
�� FARMERS: Operating vehicles within a 150 mile radius of their farm.
• An F-endorsement is needed by farmers operating combination vehicles whose towing vehicle has a
GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more. A knowledge test, but no skills test, is required to obtain the Fendorsement.
The F-endorsement is NOT a CDL.
• Farmers who carry hazardous materials in amounts requiring placards while operating combination
vehicles whose towing vehicle has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or a single vehicle with a GVWR
of 26,001 pounds or more, need a CDL with a hazardous materials endorsement.
�� INDIVIDUALS: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions
or family members, for non-business purposes.


So we are still exempt as long as we do not engage in commerce. Hauling our own stuff for pleasure use should be fine, at least in my state.

I still hold a florida chauffeurs license. I've been out of trucking for quite a few years. My understanding was that if you were hauling your own private stuff in your own private rig "not for hire" then a CDL is not required. My reason for visiting here is due to the fact I am considering buying an old moving trailer to convert into a hunting camp rig and wanted to haul it myself. Anyone know if I'm on off or near being correct? I might have been right at one time but know things never stay the same.
Thanks