starter solenoid

My starter solenoid went out. I got a new one but it has 4 poles the old one had three. Is there a way to make the new one work? I have not found a three pole 12 volt solenoid.

Is it a Delco-Remy? If so , The fourth is a by pass to give 12 volts to ignition for starting. On other applications just ignore the other terminal.

A typical what I call FORD type electrical solenoid relay/switch has 4 terminals (2 big 2 small).

(MY guess is you have a Ford type solenoid/relay that uses an I terminal that you can simply ignore n not use)

On the Ford type 4 terminal solenoid/relays:

The two big post/studs, that have big honkin cables or one side to starter, are the input from Battery and output to Starter,,,,,,,,The two small terminals are S (Solenoid) and I (Ignition). On those the metal mounting serves as the case ground return. Its the S terminal (receiving voltage from a start switch) that energizes the solenoid to latch/close n crank the starter while the other I terminal which is hot ONLY when the solenoid is energized, might be used to by pass an ignition ballast resistor.

IF YOU HAD ONLY A 3 TERMINAL (No S terminal) AND WANT TO USE THAT 4 TERMINAL, SIMPLY IGNORE THE I TERMINAL. Connect the start switch (hot when in start position) to the S terminal.....

Other possibilities could be a 4 terminal that DOES NOT have any I terminal but one of the lil terminals is the ground return versus the case/frame as in typical Ford type solenoids. It could have like an S terminal while the other is ground and NOT have any I type terminal. If thats the case wire the lil S terminal to the Start switch output and if the other is indeed a ground return terminal, it would connect to frame ground

Figure out what type solenoid you have and let us know...

John T

WHAT tractor/vehicle are you working with?

If you need a simple grounded-base 12-Volt solenoid, and have a "generic Ford fender-mount solenoid" with 4 terminals, simply use the small "S" terminal and leave the little "I" terminal unused.

Trouble is, there's a lot of possible little "catches" with the above advice, depending upon what you are trying to do and EXACTLY what new solenoid you have. (Starter solenoids that LOOK identical, externally, MAY have wiring variations INSIDE.)

BOTTOM LINE... BE CAREFUL in case it doesn't behave as expected not to run over yourself! BE SURE tractor/vehicle is in Neutral or PARK (if available) and brakes LOCKED, if possible BEFORE messing with starter wiring!

My tractor is a 1964 ford 4000 diesel. It had of course the two large terminals for the battery and starter but it only had one wire that goes to the neutral/start button. I think the button only supplied a ground to the 3 wire solenoid. I think my 4 wire S terminal is looking for a hot wire.

Thanks for your help!

Bite your lip an go to the dealer and get the right solenoid for the tractor its most likely a heavy duty one for the diesel engine. If you put on a cheaper one just to save money it will burn itself out real quick.
Walt

John:

I have the new solenoid that has the small s and I terminal. This one doesn't work like the old one. Other than the starter cable and battery cable and the wire from the voltage regulator on the battery side it had one wire coming from the neutal/start button to the single small terminal on the old solenoid. The tractor is a 64 Ford 4000 diesel.

paul, i ran into that type of solenoid on my old bucket truck. the boom solenoids activate by ground on the small post.

I'm thinking there might be a difference on that 4000 Ford depending on whether it has a generator or an alternator. Your 64 has a generator doesn't it? I THINK the generator model uses a 3 post and the alternator model uses a 4. Don't hold me to that.

If its like this solenoid you use the small terminal with the nut. Hal
PS: Standard Ignition has a solenoid SS597A with just 3 posts. Cost about $28.00. I gave $5.00 for this one.

The swich should be marked S and I for the small terminals.
S is eather grounded or gronded by a switch(safety neutral switch)
Set your volt meter to resistance and check between the S terminal and the body of the solenoid. If you get continuity that terminal needs to be grounded for the solenoid to work. The other( I terminal) is your started energizing circuit from the ignition switch. You don't have a neutral or safety switch, That is why there was only one terminal in you old solenoid.
Guido. :lol:

You probably got an automotive type Ford solenoid. What you need is the 'AG' solenoid, from a NewHolland dealer. This solenoid is of the grounding type rather than the automotive type that requires live power from the key. The starter button is simply a switch that closes contacts with the chassis.
The easiest solution is to get the correct relay.

If, for some obscure reason you can't get the proper relay, then you CAN wire this one to work by using a headlight (4RD) relay.
What you do is take power off the hot side of the relay and wire it to the hot side of the 4RD, then wire the switched side of the RD to the 'S' terminal on the relay you have. On the control side of the 4RD you again take power from the 'hot' side of the relay and feed it to the input side of the 4RD, THEN take a wire from the starter button up to the ground of the 4RD. This leaves the wiring hot all the time except, then when you push the starter button to close the contacts, both relays close their contacts to run the starter.
It's a rather complicated way of doign something simple... that can be done much more cleanly with the correct part.
But, it will work if you're stuck.

Rod

It would certainly have helped if he had told us in the first post WHAT he was working with!

RodInNS...

It's a LOT simpler to just get an "isolated base starter solenoid/relay" with BOTH leads of the coil brought out to the little terminals.

Power one side of the coil with a jumper to the stud connected to the battery, then the other stud activates the solenoid when grounded.

SIMPLE, and NO second relay needed.

<img src = "http://ndtc3500.stellarnet.com/~blweltin/Bob/8N4-wire%20solenoid.jpg">

Connecting it to the ignition switch, as shown in the drawing will even prevent the starter from being engaged without the ignition key switch "ON", for even more safety.

I do believe that is exactly what I suggested he do.... get the right bloody relay.
If that wasn't possible for some unforseen reason, the 4RD will make it work, and it will work exactly the same as the proper relay.

Rod

I simply suggested a readily-available automotive solenoid, a LOT simpler solution than adding an "ice cube relay".

I don't know that the insulated base relay is all that common any more other than through the tractor dealers... but mabey it is.
I won't argue that it's simpler. It certainly is. My point is that the 'ice cube relay' will work if needed.

Rod

The insulated base relay is readily available around here, but, of course, who knows about your area, or elsewhere, for that matter.