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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

hytran fluid questions

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Dave from MN

09-08-2008 13:33:41
96.24.108.212



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Alright, sent the wife to local fleet supply to get me some hytran fluid for the 1750 over under, universal hydraulic fluid for the hydraulics, and gear oil for the rearend. Well, the sales guy sent her home with a "universal hydraulic fluid" that says its for trannies, hydraulics, wet brakes, and all that good stuff, says is apptroved for ih, Agco, and the rest. Well, the hytran fluid in the over under is low, but is nice clean red, seems fine, so I wanted to just change the filter and top off the fluid. Well, the new stuff is , well oil color, the stuff in my over under now is red. Can I mix these two or do I need to drain it all out and replenish with one brand, one color. Can some one help me out?

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ChrisB

09-08-2008 23:20:20
66.189.25.201



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to MN Rick, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  

colekicker said: (quoted from post at 01:57:43 09/09/08)
Why did Case IH have the Ultra Shield program that would give you a 10 year 10,000 hour warranty for using Case IH lube and filters?


You had me until the last sentence. Could it be that case was doubling the markup if not more on the oil and filters? No "might" about it.
Sure the design is to spec of an oil. Problem is there are only a handful of popular spec oils and then 2000 different ways to market them and price them. Somewhere out there, there is a different colored pail of oil as the Case pail containing the exact same oil at 1/3 the price. All we need is a secret decoder ring to figure it out.

If not then tell us EXACTLY why there is no other oil like Case on the market and why a refinery would go out of it's way to batch some special blend for such a small customer.
Either way here is a good start to decode some of the straight from a refinery.
http://www.texasrefinery.com/[/url]

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JMS/.MN

09-08-2008 21:48:10
209.237.107.155



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
So what is the problem if you simply go with the recommended fluids with the operator manual of your tractor? Wouldn't that be the right thing to follow?



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RodInNS

09-08-2008 20:50:56
216.118.158.123



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
My inclination would be towards dumping every drop of oil from the tractor and refilling with hy-tran/permatran/TDH/UDT/134D/HyGuard or whatever other name you want to hang on Universal Tractor Fluid.
Mabey there is something special about he Ollie that it requires differnet oils in different compartments but I highly doubt it. The old Fords were the same way with their recomendations and the current recomendation is to use 134D or it's equivelant.
It's your tractor and your money...

Rod

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NEKS

09-08-2008 19:41:53
204.183.215.78



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
Read your tractor manual and talk to a major oil company supply man, To major oil companies red in oil only means one thing, automatic transmission fluid, and it can be used for a lot of different applications, only when the manual says so.



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Don-Wi

09-08-2008 18:51:10
72.135.123.231



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
For the over/under, they originally used the ATF fluid, but then later on when they were White's they used the universal Hy-Tran type fluid.

Our 1855 blew a line to the cooler last year (slow but steady leak) and it had ATF in it, but being we had to keep going and all we had was Perma-Tran III which is what we use for all of our hydraulics. I kept dumping that in until I had a chance to fix the leak. I ran it with that oil in it for a while, until I finally changed it this year.

I didn't get all of the oil out, but it's mostly AGCO's (Massey's) Perma-Tran in there now. After I had the hydra-power rebuilt in my 1600 it came back with a Hy-tran type oil, so I figure if that's what the dealer put in that one, I can run it in the Over/Under.

I would drain it and refill with a new filter.

For the transmission, use 80w-90 gear lube. The hy-tran won't be heavy enough.

For the hydraulics, if you have any other brands and already use one type of oil, just go with what you already use in them. For us, like I said earlier, we use AGCO's Perma-Tran. I forget what it is now, but it used to be Perma-tran III.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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Dean Barker

09-08-2008 17:50:37
67.0.81.45



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
Dave--You can't look at oil and tell what additives are in it. None of us are oil chemists with the equipment that it takes to analyze oil. I would either buy from AGCO, Mobil, Shell, or major oil supplier (not Farm Fleet brand). You can use either auto-trans fluid or universal hydraulic oil in both the hydraulics and the over/under. Use 80W-90 in the rear end and transmission. Also you can use Agco's cheap oil filter for the transmission but be sure to use 30-3475425 on your over/under. Also, don't mix your oils as sometimes the additives are not compatable. Enjoy your 1750!!

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cornfarmer

09-08-2008 17:18:04
64.12.117.74



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
Be careful of advice given by the part-time help at a chain farm supply store. Hy-Tran (and its generic cousin) is designed for newer style tractors having a universal sump for all fluids. I am not an Oliver man, but Hy-Tran seems appropriate for the powershift. It is overkill for the hydraulic system, might as well use regular hydraulic fluid as that is what it was designed for. As far as the rear end, if it was designed for gear oil (80 wt), she won't last long with hy-tran in it as Hy-tran is about 10wt.

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trucker40

09-08-2008 16:45:49
69.155.110.93



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
I dont know about which oil to use,but the red color sometimes just means its for the transmission.Mystic oil is red thats used for differentials and transmissions,but some transmission oil is oil color.I know that even auto transmission fluid is oil,but it has anti foaming additives and other stuff.I think it would be a good idea to use what it says to use in your manual.I dont know whether it would have to be red or not,but it would sure have to be the right weight and the right specs.You wouldnt put 85/140 in the auto transmission of your car so you wouldnt want to put 85/140 in your transmission on your tractor,especially if it is supposed to have auto transmission fluid in it.I think you would be safe in putting regular oil colored oil for your transmission in with the red.If its automatic transmission fluid,and its red,and you have the right transmission fluid but its not red,as long as everything in the specs say it will work,I think that would be alright.There is Mystic oil for differentials and transmissions thats red,and its ok to mix regular oil colored oil with the red Mystic oil.However,dont take my word for it,maybe call a place that sells bulk oil and ask them,to have a better idea of what you need to do.I think if you look on a bucket of Hytran and a bucket of somebody elses oil,you can get the same thing for less money.I could be wrong.

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e

09-08-2008 15:16:07
66.170.4.146



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
Price out what replacement shafts cost for that thing. Granted, they are not any worse than any other color machine, but it will make doing a 100% oil change a no brainer.

And since I assume you don't know when the oil was changed last, don't cheap out, put a new filter on too :)



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mark

09-08-2008 14:07:31
172.163.19.100



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
Dave,

No doubt, you'll get a myriad of answers to your question. Some folks firmly believe that if you don't use the EXACT type, brand name, color, alphabet designation and so forth, that an army of gremlins will crawl into your crankcase, hydro reservoir, rear end..or whatever the case may be...and wreak mortal hell on the innards. For the most part...allow me to attach a qualifying number..99.44%..of that line of thinking is pure, unadulterated Bullschitt. SOME rearend fluids used in wet brake systems have an additive to keep them from grabbing and making a racket. But for the most part..regardless of the dye used to color the product...these fluids are mostly universal today. Hydraulic fluids are highly refined oils with anti foaming agents added and most have a chemical ingredient to keep seals soft and pliable. But the bottom line is, they are oils that both lubricate and operate hydraulic cylinders. Automatic transmission fluid is a hydraulic oil. The latest versions have an anti-chatter ingredient in them.....uh....much the same as that used in tractors with wet brakes.....in an auto tranny, it makes them shift smooth and not jerk..same as it keeps the brakes from grabbing on a tractor. Stick your finger in a bottle of ATF and see what it looks and smells like...then try some HyTran. Oh, that isn't scientific? Hehe...well, whatever. I think you'll find they are so close, as to be one, and the same.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to use the Universal fluid in my new JD. I have used ATF in the hydraulic system of the my Farmall SA for 3 years with no ill effects. I wouldn't even hesitate to fill the hydraulic reservoir of my new tractor with Dexron ATF. Let the naysayers rant and gloat. Let them prove their claims beyond declaring that the engineers who designed the machine know it all. I would suggest they ask a chemical engineer associated with oil refining to explain. It should be obvious, that if you design for JD, you specify JD hydraulic fluids. Mostly, it's a sales gimmick.

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colekicker

09-08-2008 22:57:43
69.20.201.18



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to mark, 09-08-2008 14:07:31  
You need to go back and read the operator's manual. Same thing if you put Shell Rotella T in a new tractor. IT DOES NOT MEET THE SPECS. You need Shell Remula (sp).
Cars run at 30% horsepower.
Trucks run at 60% horsepower.
Tractors run at 90% horsepower.
Use the oil that was designed for the product.
I work for an OEM. We have oil designed for our products for them to perform at their best.
Why did Case IH have the Ultra Shield program that would give you a 10 year 10,000 hour warranty for using Case IH lube and filters?

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rrlund

09-08-2008 15:17:19
216.46.211.92



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to mark, 09-08-2008 14:07:31  
YOU GUYS WHO DOPN'T HAVE OLIVERS...DON'T cause Dave to screw up this tractor that he just bought! That 1750 doesn't have wet brakes,or a wet clutch. The hydrapower 2 speed is a totally seperate unit,self contained. The transmision and rearend are seperate of the hydraulic unit.Those seals and bearings in there aren't made for that light oil. The hydraulics and powersteering are one unit,seperate of the other two mentioned above. If you post this on the Oliver board Dave,everybody over there will tell you the exact same thing.

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rrlund

09-08-2008 13:58:31
216.46.209.42



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
No,Dave,that hydra power or over/under,whichever your 1750 has,has typeA automatic transmission fluid. DON'T mix them. You can drain it out,change the filter and use hytran. I did in my 1850,but if it doesn't leak,I wouldn't. The ones in my 1600 and 1550 still have type A in them and seem to work a little better. I wouldn't use that hytran in the rearend either. Just use it in the hydraulics,the dipstick down between your legs. The transmission and rearend need 80/90 gear lube.

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evilboweviel

09-08-2008 14:55:31
68.250.177.187



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to rrlund, 09-08-2008 13:58:31  
I second the above this is how I treat my 1650D
ron



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buickanddeere

09-08-2008 13:50:56
216.183.136.2



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
Does it say anything about wet clutchs on the pail.



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ChrisLSD

09-08-2008 13:49:59
75.163.33.136



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
I have no Olivers but I have read here and heard other places that some people used ATF in the over under -



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in-too-deep

09-08-2008 13:39:49
64.235.67.5



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to Dave from MN, 09-08-2008 13:33:41  
Shouldn't be a problem to mix 'em. Chances are the fluid in there is some kinda hy-tran from a different manufacturer that happens to be red.



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KEH

09-08-2008 14:57:28
209.213.30.145



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 Re: hytran fluid questions in reply to in-too-deep, 09-08-2008 13:39:49  

On a tractor with a plain 8 speed trans. I mixed oil from 2 sources(Sam's and TSC) and got foaming. Either worked fine by itself. The oil from Sam's would mix with universal transmission hydraulic oil from the Agco dealer and a oil company. Based on that I wouldn't mix them.

KEH



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