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LP gas vehicles( T Boone Pickens adv.)

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Keep seeing this adv. on TV. How Much would it cost to convert a car or truck to LP ? Can a fuel injected vehicle be converted ? I know that years ago when they still used intake manifolds it could be done .Is this guy nuts ,Owns gas wells ,or just blowing smoke up our rears ?
 
Some people suspect his real goal is to get a right-of-way to move water from the aquifers under his wind farms to Dallas. He can't get it approved for just water, but the green energy crowd might help him get the easement for wind power transmission lines with fine print that allows water too. But who really knows?
 
Went to this site ,it looks like a infomercial for Pickens .Nowhere does it tell how much or any general idea of cost to convert . A friend had a LP car in the 1960,s but the entire trunk was used for the fuel tank .The thing was huge .I would like info not propaganda or political agendas.
 
I thought he was for compressed natural gas (cng), not lp????

Cng requires heavy tanks, very very high pressures, I'm not really for it, think it is putting little bombs on each vehicle. Low btu per volume.

Lp would be in short supply in short order if we converted any signifigant amount of vehicles.

--->Paul
 
I used to do alot of LP conversions years ago . avergae cost then , depending on application was around 2500. Some duel fuel aome straight lp. You can still get conversion kits .Impco and Century are two suppliers . As far as fuel injected vehicles,,,yes you can convert them , yes it costs lots of $$$$ I looked at a system to convert a Toyota tundra .Only thing i could find was from a Dutch manufacturer, cost for kit alone was around $6000 , figure nother 1200 for labor . Take alot of cheap Lp to make it payoff .
 
I have overhauled a few propane forklift engines, they were the dirtiest ,filthiest engines I have ever done. Valves and guides were worn completely out. Don't know if it was due to low operating temperature or poor lubrication. My friend at the machine shop said all the ones he had done were the same way. Propane delivery trucks around here used to be propane, now they are diesel, driver told me they didn't get good service out of them and repairs were expensive. I don't think I'm quite ready to make the jump.
 
I loooked into this a two weeks ago.

Beware of the Galileo kits on Ebay and eleswhere. I have not read any good info on them.

I contacted several fleet conversion centers- the prices were sky high. $5-$8000. I think there is quite a mark up. I talked to some fellow motorheads from the netherlands and they have bought "PRINS" LP kit for $2500 minus the tank. The prins kit is a "dual fuel" port injection kit, it seems to be one of the best kits out there. The system will start on gas, and then switch over to LP automatically.
 
What's the down side? If we all convert is the price going to double/triple? Is Lp traded and can the speculators arbitrarily jack up the price? Is China going to buy it out from under us?
 
You can put a regulator on a modern fi vehicle, and still keep the fi components and gasoline capability. BUT, it won't be efficient, unless you raise the comp. ratio to 12:1<. So, dual fuel is kind of silly. Same as ethonol. (Saab has tinkered with variable c.r., wich makes alot more sense than hondas retarded variable cam timing) Cng added to diesel engines increases power, lowers emissions, and improves economy. With todays ecm's, they could do just about anything.

We will use whatever fuel that infrastructure provides. It might be a combination of fuels.

Why isn't the cheap, unsubsidised cane ethonal from south america let in?
 
Figure out how to store it and transport it to china, (cng, not propane) and you'll be alot wealthier than t boon.
 
A: not propane, cng
B: every nat. gas or propane engine I've seen tore down was alot cleaner than any gasoline engine I've seen. Depends on maintenance & tuning, I suppose.
C: Older valve gear & ring tech. wasn't what it is today.
D: Big trucks used to have gasoline engines, and were easily converted. They no longer do.
E: Inner city busses have two stroke detroits converted to run on cng. They are widely used and very successful.
 
Isn't cng compressed gas under very high pressure until it is in liquid form which is what LP is ? Please don't get hostile wth me I'm trying to learn and make an informed decision based on facts , not some feel good B S.
 
Lpg is stored under lower pressure than cng, has a lower ignition temp, and they are two entirely different strings of hydrocarbons.
 
A lot of what T Boone makes sense. He says what we should do first is wind power. That is what makes it an add to me. He is heavily invested in wind power.

The Aquifer under the wind farm is not his. It is regulated like above ground water.
 
"Why isn't the cheap, unsubsidized cane ethanol from South America let in?'

Why, a lot of things? Florida bought out the cane industry when you would think that they would be ramping up cane production in the US. They paid enough that if they just gave the money to the people, we would have had free gas for a while. Probably has to do with our crooked congresspeople and big farms.
 
The TV Infomercials of Pickens are of him promoting "CNG". CNG is Compressed Natural Gas ,not "LP" Liquified Propane . Lp has been used for many years to power any variety of Internal combustion engine ,originally designed to use Gasoline for power. CNG however is a different type of Gas requiring a different Fuel Supply System for the Engine, different Storage System,different Delivery System to the user etc.etc. T.Boone is a major owner of the recently discovered Gas fields in the Arctic Ocean off North Coast Alaska and elsewhere and I think his ads are nothing short of an effort on his part to increase his vast wealth. His Pipeline for this Gas must be built and has many critics. The ads are one way of swaying the American Public to increase Politicol Pressure so his plans will have an easier approval passage thru the vast requirements to get such a venture up and running.That aside The United States is in dire need of this Fuel for what ever use it may end up powering. I'm not sure if an LP System on any Engine useing it for Fuel can be converted to run on CNG or not. I do know that LP can be purchased at just about any Convenience Store,Hardware Store or Town's LP Supplier and there are suppliers to the Motoring Public. Can the same be said of CNG?
 
we usta run irrigation engines (automotive types) on natural gas from high pressure gas lines.Engines stayed very clean and were long lived,but had to have hard valve seats installed,as factory seats and talves had a short life. also buses in california were burning natural gas thirty or forty years ago.
 
Saw an article where the largest florida cane plantation was shutting down. I always heard the sugar beet farmers had a hand in it too.
 
Heck, i've got nat. gas piped into my house!

I'll have a gas well before long, too. Might look into a compressor & an old dodge w/ a slant six after that.
 
He is trying to sell anything you will bite at that's the kind of businessman he is and is now sided up with all the greenie nuts for their money too. The conversions are way too costly for individuals but huge fleets for companies been getting tax reliefs to run CNG or LPG for years. As a individual you aren't eligible for those tax reliefs and have to pay for a tax sticker in most states for LPG before anyone can fill your tank, issue inspection stiker or license making the savings non existant for the little guy.
 
Some of you are right on. Look up what T.Boone has done to get water rights in Texas. Really interesting what a private company did to get imminent domain to cross ranchers land with his water lines and also drill for water in a manner that only a public utility would normally be allowed to do. He is then piping and selling water to major Texas cities.
Now he will be getting right of way for a corridor of land running from Mexico to Canada under the guise of wind power/alternative energy. He can build roads, he can build windmills, he CAN drill for oil, water etc., he can run electric lines etc. etc. Just watch him.
And, he will have greenies, government, consumers etc. on his side. Giant land grab in the making.
 
I have been around a lot of LP powered engines and they are extremely clean.

The issues with those you were around must have been a maintenance issue or lack of proper air filtering.

Older factory engines that were later converted to burn LP frequently had valve problems until hard seats and valve rotators were installed. I once saw an engine torn down for valve work and even though the engine had nearly 80,000 miles on it you could still see some of the hone marks in the cylinders. Ever see that with a gas engine? No way. Gasoline tends to wash down the walls whereas LPG is a dry fuel which leaves oil cleaner as a bonus.

Personally I'd like to see natural gas kept for current uses such as heating and those power plants that use it.

Shifting to wind and solar and adding nuclear power plants is needed, but focus on CONSERVATION should be at the forefront. Building homes and other buildings that aren't super-insulated is folly.
 
I see a lot of you are worried about Ol! T-Boone Pickens getting richer, well I would rather see an American gets richer than an Arab.
Walt
 
I am confused. I have always thought that LP was made up of either Propane or Butane gases products of refineries. Am I right? CNG gas is compressed natural gas which is a different source? I remember fifty years ago that many of the irrigation pumps in western Kansas and Oklahoma were powered by engines using natural gas from the gas wells on the land. M-M were the favorites they would run two of them tail on a gear head another was the Chrysler V8 running on its tail direct drive on the impeller shaft. They had altered the oil sump so it would have oil. I do not know if the fuel systems were modified. I seem to remember the planed the head on the M-M . I am sure some old M-M mechanic from that are would know. This made irrigation profitable Electricity makes it a little tighter.
Now on the wind farms. In most of the cases here in Oklahoma Pickens is buying only the right-a-way for access to build the windmill and the surface damages. The owner still owns the land and the water right unless he sells them. The same goes for oil and gas right. The use of the water from a water right is controlled by The Oklahoma Water Resource Board. Either in gallons or in the case of irrigation (acre feet) you can use so many acre feet per year and must report how much each year to retain your rights. Water rights are a valuable asset. I do not now off taking ant land by eminent domain her in OK. We must remember that after several years of drought and low cattle and grain prices what would you do? If you can get a year by year payment for the use of your land and still run some cattle and have a gas or oil well paying you a monthly royalty what would you do? I am not standing up for T.Boone Pickens even though he has given millions to Oklahoma State University.
The rules very from State to State we have had and still have a lot of scoundrels and still do here in Oklahoma yet, I have seen a lot of farmer and rangers go from a poor boy to a fine operation with one of those “Black Nurse Cows”. The has a USA has a energy problem we have to solve it. The saying goes, “The foreign counties got us by the Ying-Ying”. We must explore every option.
gitrib
 
I actually admire what T.Boone is doing because he is playing the game by appearing to give us all what we want. What's that old saying "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it". I honestly admire his moxy. Also, we need to move beyond this "better to see $$$ stay in U.S. than Middle East. How do you know who T.Boones backers and investors are ?? As we speak there are foreign investors and sovereign wealth funds invested in wind farms, ethanol and bio-diesel plants right in your back yard. And again, T.Boone knows enough about human behavior that we will all feel warm and fuzzy because he's an American.
Also, by the time his entire project is built, the first windmill will already be obsolete but...since I'm already there, how about I do a little oil, gas, water or maybe a highway running from Mexico to Canada !!! I admire T.Boone because he knows how to work us to FEEL GOOD. Again, study Forbes article about his Texas exploits.
 
You could put a primitive LP "carb" after the mass airflow sensor of most any modern fuel injected vehicle.
Start on gasoline only. Have the LP then begine flow. Dial the pressure on the LP regulator to run less than "normal" LP. The exhaust O2 sensor will back off the gasoline injector pulse width to compensate.
Too much LP however would confuse the factory computer. A custom tune from a ordinary programer would allow more LP and still allow the vehicle to drive on straight gasoline.
It wouldn"t be a 100% LP vehicle but likely 1/2 to 3/4 of the fuel burned could be LP.
 
They do ship CNG over seas. NOt sure how much or who/which directions. I"ve seen pictures of Russian CNG ships.
 
I've got a bucket lift with a kubota 3 cylinder engine.You can run it on gas or lp,just flip a switch.
 
All I could find were Some that were gov't run, (as i suppose the chi-coms would want, anyhow) But cost effective solutions are "under development"
 
Yes you can run modern fuel injected engines on propane. We still have a lot of 01' Ford F150's and some Taurus's with a few Cavaliers and Luminas from that era when the Sate of Az jumped on the alt fuel bandwagon. Pretty complicated system with an interace computer in line with the stuc ECU. Fuel was injected just after the MAF.
There were a lot of Factory installs along with some aftermarket jobs.
 
Have you considered the "Tax Man" when you fillup your Internal Cumbustion Engine from your private NG Well or the NG Pipe that services your Furnace? Would a visit from this Party be in your future for non collection and non refunding of these Taxes to the "Man"? Too many People in reponse to this Post are confusing CNG and LPG so I had better just Google on elsewhere. JC
 
Remember the post I made about "No More Tractors". I wonder what gasoline will cost if we move the majority of our vehicles to CNG? I would imagine it will be much more expensive if it is not produced in mass volumes as it is now. I don't mean to sound alarmist, but it is a little diconcerting. I hope the day never comes that we aren't allowed to run old tractors, or can't afford to, but boy, it sure seems like we might be headed in that direction one day.

And as far as T. Boone, I'm far from convinced that he has our best interests at heart. I still believe we have more than enough oil here in North America to run on for at least a hundred years, and by then we will have moved in another direction by natural market forces, hopefully toward Jetsons type flying vehicles.

I also don't believe in man-made global warming, so that is not even a consideration for me in this issue. It's unfortunate that so many are buying into it. A major move in any other direction for our fuel needs will be extrodinary expensive for the country, needlessly so. There has been a great deal of news lately about a lack of sunspot activity, pointing toward another big cooling period. The last time there was this little activity on the sun was during the Little Ice Age.

I'm afraid we will begin making changes that are pointless, fruitless, expensive, and unnecessary.

Additionally, I don't think God put us here with the end plan being that we ruin the planet.

Just my $0.02 worth, and I'm not very smart.

Brian
 
What they don't know won't hurt them. besides, I'd be saving the planet. algore should come kiss my hairy white behind. ;-)
 
I certainly didn't mean I was going to use the gas that comes through the meter! Not any benefit there!
 
I think our biggest enemy is the economy and the people running it and the pres and congess are off fighting the wrong enemies and may be the enemy.
You may be right on global warming, but you may be wrong, so if we change some habits, how can we be wrong? Last few years we've changed our washer, lites to compact fluorescents, and changed toilets. The washer saves electricity, water, soap, the CF are ?, and the toilet tanks are about half the size of normal, then only fill half the way.
I think T. Boone is probably a snake oil salesman.
I totally agree with this statement, "I still believe we have more than enough oil here in North America to run on for at least a hundred years", and think were are just being F**ked.
 
T Boon is definitly looking out for # 1, but that's good. The politicians he buys will cancel out the politicians the other side buys. The status quo will be maintained, and nothing will be accomplished, as usual.

As far as the supply, distribution & price of gasoline....It will take many moons to institute any real change with any plan present or future. As demand goes down, so will price. It's happening right now.
 
Sorry, don't believe the supply and demand hype.. the prices don't follow the bull they're feedin. It also was blamed on China, on the hurricanes, on and on...all bogus.
 
With a 51 cent subsidy on the gallon of ethonol blended, and a 54 cent tarrif on every gallon imported.

It's all moot. Flex fueled vehicles are not a good option unless a reliable ecu controlled variable compression engine is developed. Gasoline friendly c.r.'s are not efficient enough with ethonol or cng.
 
Energy policies can be changed tomorrow, not in many moons.

So if what you meant was that it will take some time for those policies to affect the price of oil, I again disagree. Just the recent discussion of drilling has lowered futures prices. As well as a reduction in demand.
 
"The President of the United States is the enemy? "
What's the saying, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Our economy, pollution, food, jobs, world view of us, etc.. all in the dump.
 
So being part of a suppossed problem makes the President of the United States an enemy in your mind? OK, if you say so.

I disagreed with a lot of Bill Clinton's policies, but I never thought he was an enemy to the country. Pretty over the top rhetoric, don't you think? Foolishly immature statement if you ask me. But that's just my opinion, like yours.
 
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