Yesterday's Tractor Co. Affordable Parts, Just in Time
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Classified Ads
Photo Ads

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
Enter your email address to receive our newsletter!

subscribe
unsubscribe
  
Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
T.C. in TX

05-22-2008 04:33:23
71.42.188.85



Report to Moderator

I just dropped off the second CAV injector pump to be rebuilt due to serious leaks. Is anyone else having this kind of problems?

Both of the pumps are on Perkins diesels in Massey Ferguson tractors. Both were leaking around the main body on the back side of the pump. Since you have to pretty much disassemble the pump to put new seals in I am leaving the repairs to the professionals.

According to the injector pump shop the problems were caused by the new low sulphur diesel. I haven"t been using any additives. Before the failures, I had several other leaks on both tractors in various spots on the fuel lines that had never been problems before.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
TomTex

05-22-2008 14:38:23
12.74.220.94



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
That is why I use a quart of Power Service diesel fuel conditioner per every 55 gallon of diesel that I buy. Costs 5 dollars. Some of you may say I am wasting money, but at only 5 dollars a barrel I see it as cheap insurance. The refineries in Texas are only making ULSD. The distributor adds dye in accordance with state law for off-road diesel, but it is EXACTLY the same fuel as over the road fuel. If you pump is CAV and the top gasket or the throttle or cut-off shaft are leaking, it is a 5 dollar fix, on the tractor. Many folks are getting ripped off thinking they need a rebuild. I will copy below this my instructions for stopping any leaksaround the top of the CAV pump. Tom

Is your pump a CAV? If it is a CAV, I have been there done that. The CAV is prone to leaking around the throttle shaft and the cut-off shaft. First you will need to get 2 or 3 cans of engine cleaner. Clean, clean, and clean again the whole area. After each spraying, hose off, let dry and do it again. Cleaner the better, if you drop a ball of grease/dirt into the top while the cover is off - big trouble, one piece of crud dropped into the bottom of the pump will cost you about $600-700. Now using a paper towel, start looking for your leak; it will show up real easy on the dry, clean paper towel. 1. MOST important thing is to have some paper and pencil BEFORE you take off the cover.
2. Remove shut-off linkage and throttle linkage. 3. Remove screws or nuts holding lid on. 4. DO NOT just lift up the top. Lift it just a little, very carefully so you can peek under it. A spring is attached from the lid to the bottom part of the pump. One end of spring is hooked on a wide post looking like a tombstone. The tombstone has several holes in it. Write down which hole the spring is hooked in before you remove it. The other end is through one of the holes in the flattened end of the control rod. Again write down the hole it is in before you remove it. This step is VERY IMPORTANT. If the spring is not reassembled to EXACTLY the same holes on both ends, the tractor will never run right again. The same pump can be used on different model tractors with the only difference being how the spring is hooked. My MF dealer mechanic can tell the proper holes by using the 3 numbers on the CAV. Now remove the spring, and lift off the lid. 5. Write down the model/year of tractor, and the model of the CAV pump and serial number. There are 3 different numbers on my CAV pump.
6. Take the cover with you and head to MF dealer and purchase a new gasket and four (4) tiny o-rings that fit around the throttle shaft and the shut-off shaft. Each shaft has 2 o-rings. If the o-rings are not leaking now, they soon will so replace all of them. Total cost of gasket and 4 o-rings is about $5 or $6. 7. You will need a little patience and two extra hands to get the spring attached on both ends and the new gasket fitted. I did this complete procedure on my MF 690 and now it has NO LEAKS.
Tom

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS

05-22-2008 14:03:28
24.224.246.156



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
I haven't had any trouble or seen any trouble as a result of ULSD. ULSD is also all that's available here.
I don't use conditioner in the fuel either. No trouble whatsoever in 2 years.

Rod



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
pair-a-dice farms

05-22-2008 10:14:41
72.161.187.181



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
I've had 2 to start leaking also My rebuilder suggested adding a lubricant, all the fuel I can get around here is ultra low sulfer.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
davediehl@hotmail.com

05-22-2008 08:51:32
209.45.205.13



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
Just got ours done on the 2745 Massey. Its a 1979 model and started leaking around the top. Got the gasket set and let the pros handle the rebuild. They re-shimmed everything and got it back to a new like condition. The tractor even sounds different after adjusting the valves. 1100 bucks covered the pump rebuild, adjustments and 2 new injectors. Not bad overall I didn't think. The gasket set was 250 alone.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
bhb

05-22-2008 06:53:15
76.189.161.19



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
Had the same problem on my Case 580. After getting the pump rebuilt the rebuilder said I should use Stanadyne fuel conditioner. I got it from the John Deere dealer, number TY22030. The rebuilder said the new low sulfer fuel doesn"t have enough lubrication for the older pumps that aren"t made to use low sulfer fuel. I put it in both the backhoe and bulldozer and haven"t had any problems.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
NCWayne

05-22-2008 05:58:36
166.82.164.236



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
Whatever the cause may be the guys in the pump shop I use are attributing the majority of the seal leaks they see to the new fuel. They"ve been in business since way before the first reduction in the sulfer years ago and say they saw a huge increase in pumps brought in leaking after that reduction. Since the reduction this time their volume has once again picked up drastically. If repair volume stays steady for a long time and a change in the fuel is made and nothing else changes except that, it sorta stands to reason that the change is the cause of the problem.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

05-22-2008 10:22:38
72.171.0.138



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to NCWayne, 05-22-2008 05:58:36  
Yes, but it might be a regional thing. Taking the sulfur out of the fuel isn't going to cause the problem. The chemicals they add later can be. Different suppliers and/or refiners use different chemicals to bring the fuel lube up to specs. They all have to use a lube additives, but there are many different types allowed.

With bio-fuel, even B50 and less, there are consistent problems with rubber parts having to be updated to better materials to prevent leaks - including fuel hoses outside the pump.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan In NE

05-22-2008 05:54:34
148.78.243.26



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
Yep,

I've got a combine pump doing the same thing.

It's never had the low sulfer stuff; it's 30 years old and is to be expected.

AGCO wants $200 to reseal 'er and put in a new governor ring.

Allan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

05-22-2008 06:54:26
67.142.130.43



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to Allan In NE, 05-22-2008 05:54:34  
I don't know what pump you have - but you're getting a good deal. It's rare for any pump shop to be willing to "repair" any pump anymore. Most I know of - it's "all or nothing." Full rebuild charge only - no smaller repairs.

If you need a governor dampening ring - I suppose you've got a Roosamaster/Stanadyne rotary on an Allis or IH? $35-$75 in parts and an hour's work on the bench for the right person - which makes the $200 price sound pretty good. You can also upgrade to an EID dampener that will never come apart again for an extra $45.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
colekicker

05-22-2008 05:34:30
75.107.17.176



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
I would venture to guess your tractors have some age and hours. I have not seen the issues with ultra low, but find it an easy thing to blame for parts wearing out. Have you noticed your fuel ecomomy drop? I have.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

05-22-2008 05:32:06
67.142.130.43



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
I'm kind of wondering why you are using the low-sulfur stuff - since farm and off-road fuel will still be around for a few years yet.

I don't believe the story about low-sulfur causing the problem. I also doubt pump shop people know the cause. They can suspect certain things, hear rumors, read conflicting service bulletins - just like anybody else. I worked in a pump shop back in the late 70s when Stanadyne pumps were failing often in GM diesels. I heard an awful lot of possible reasons given - by General Motors, Standyne Corp., etc. The truth is - a guy in the pump shop does not necessarily know more than anybody else as to what causes a problem in a pump unless it is overt.

This I do know. Now that ultra-low sulfur diesel is " hydro-cooked" to get the sulfur out - many additives are put in to bring the lube-quality up afterwards. It is possible that some of those additives are the "straw that breaks the camel's back" with older o-rings and seals. This also happens with bio-fuel - very often. Even eats up old fuel lines.

In regard to your CAV pumps? If they are rotaries, and they are leaking at the back of the pump - they do NOT have to come off the tractor. It's a 15 minute fix. On the back is an end-cap that's held on by four screws or small bolts. It is the regulator and wear-plate for a low-pressure, vane fuel pump in the pump. All that needs to be done - is you take the scews off, pull the cap off, put a new o-ring in, and put back together. Easy to do - no adjustments get changed. We had many brand new John Deere tractors - especially the 2940s - that we had to pull those plates off and fix before they even got sold. Now - if the leak is somewhere else? Different story.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
TomTex

05-22-2008 14:27:50
12.74.220.94



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to jdemaris, 05-22-2008 05:32:06  
Here in North Central Texas, all diesel fuel is ULSD. That includes the red-dyed or off-road diesel which I use. The Chevron distributor told me that all diesel in these parts is now ULSD, and that they add the red dye for off-road use. Tom



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MN Scott

05-22-2008 05:58:38
206.9.216.79



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to jdemaris, 05-22-2008 05:32:06  
"I'm kind of wondering why you are using the low-sulfur stuff - since farm and off-road fuel will still be around for a few years yet."

In my area all you can get is ULSD, farm dyed, road, furnace oil. My supplier says the tank farms don't want to have seperate systems and tanks for USLD and non ULSD. Simpler to just have everything USLD.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

05-22-2008 06:49:20
67.142.130.43



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to MN Scott, 05-22-2008 05:58:38  
That is going to happen everywhere eventually - but not the law yet. One exception is home heating oil - not sure if the Feds made up their collective minds yet. Last I heard thought, farm fuel will be all low-sulfur by 2010.

Here in New York - we now have three fuels. Home heating oil is the same as ever - just cannot be sold for farm/off road anymore and is still red.

Farm and off road is a new color and is medium sulfur - not high and not low.

Then - there's road fuel - everyone knows about that rip-off. It was supposed to cost 10 cents more per gallon to produce. And, has 2-4% less BTU energy than the old diesel.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan In NE

05-22-2008 06:01:42
148.78.243.26



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to MN Scott, 05-22-2008 05:58:38  
Yep,

It's in the pipes and all ya can get anymore.

Allan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
T.C. in TX

05-22-2008 05:29:40
71.42.188.85



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
My tractors are both from the early 80's. I believe the MF 255 is a 1981 model and the MF 275 is a 1983 model. They both have over 3,000 hours, but get only 200 to 300 hours each year of use.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bill in IL

05-22-2008 05:21:23
131.43.10.190



Report to Moderator
 Re: New Diesel Fuel and Injector Pump Leaks in reply to T.C. in TX, 05-22-2008 04:33:23  
We have not had that problem yet but we now have 2 new massey's (593's) with perkins on the farm so for now they are under warranty.

I am curious now how old are your tractors? I am wondering if we will have the same problems in the future or if in the new tractors it has been corrected.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:

TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters