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Re: JD 4430

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Bob

07-13-2004 10:56:08




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The 4430 is a heck of a good tractor, but transmission problems are nearly always $$$$ because, in addition to splitting the tractor, both final drives have to come off, and the differential has to come out for access to fix just about ANY tranny problem.




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GDM

12-31-2005 17:59:32




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 Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Bob, 07-13-2004 10:56:08  
I have a John Deere 4430 Quad Range with Range D not functioning. We currently have the tractor split for engine work and the cab off. I am wondering if it is on the top shaft or if it can be done without splitting the rear end? Has anyone done this job and if so is it easy or hard? The two speed is slipping and more than likely is an o-ring on a piston or clutch pack or band that is bad. Does anyone have any ideas?

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G-MAN

07-13-2004 11:18:00




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 Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Bob, 07-13-2004 10:56:08  
That's not entirely correct. Most synchro- or quad-range issues are confined to the top shaft or two-speed assembly. The top shaft can be removed with the cab still in place and without removing the final drives. Splitting and removing the rockshaft housing is required, but that's relatively minor. The only time the differential and finals have to be removed is if there is an issue in the gears on the differential driveshaft. That is a big job, but not too common. And, with the right tools, final drives can be removed in a matter of minutes and not hours, and the differential soon after that if the rockshaft housing is already off. If you hustle, have good tools and know what you're doing, you can pretty much scatter everything behind the engine down to a pile of parts in a day's time.

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JMS/MN

07-13-2004 12:56:16




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 Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to G-MAN, 07-13-2004 11:18:00  
I agree with GMAN- the repair will involve a split, but not removing the finals. Powershifts are more expensive to repair than the Synchro or Quad, although they usually last longer. I've had 5 PS tractors, with maybe 33-35K hours, and the only PS repair was the plantation tractor I bought from some jockey back in '77. Rebuilt it in '80 and it is still going fine. Others never gave a speck of trouble. I don't like synchros or quads, even if they can be fixed cheaper. They are a pain to shift and select gears. Granted, they deliver a few more hp, but I'd rather have the instant shift.

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Bob

07-13-2004 13:13:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to JMS/MN, 07-13-2004 12:56:16  
JMS,

I am in no way trying to argue with anyone here.

I just wanted to make a potential buyer aware of what COULD be involved with a transmission noise, and I think, since he is looking to buy, and does not already own the tractor, and needs to fix it, that being aware of the worst-case scenario is a good idea. If he were to pay an average price for the tractor, and then be faced with major $$$$ into the rear end, he's not going to be a happy camper.

I have read many of your posts on here, and have a lot of respect for your advice and opinions, but I think it is quite a leap of faith to diagnose a transmission noise, without ever seeing the tractor, as being simple and cheap to fix! It is far better to expect the worst, and be pleasantly surprised when it turns out to be a lot cheaper to repair than expected, but how often does that happen in real life!

If it would take a major teardown of the rear end, the new tractor owner would be out $ THOUSANDS more than he planned to spend on repairs.

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george md

07-14-2004 21:34:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Bob, 07-13-2004 13:13:13  
Bob , The biggest problem I see with that model is a weak shoulder for a snap ring groove in the rear
end housing. The thru shaft for the PTO is supported
at the rear by a bearing that is held in place by
two snap rings, the rear snap ring groove shoulder
is too thin to stand the end load on the shaft and
it breaks , the oil turns metalic and requires that the housing be completely empty to repair. Of the seven of that model that I know the local dealer sold , only one has not failed . Of the 6
failures , I fixed 5 of them and another shop did
the other one .The fix requires setting up on a horizontal boring mill to bore out the remains of
the hole, fabricate a new hole with snap ring groove
and press in place and pin in place to prevent
the sleeve from comming out .

george

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Scott

07-14-2004 09:37:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Bob, 07-13-2004 13:13:13  
What would be a fair price for this tractor in OKlahoma?? knowing repairs are needed



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G-MAN

07-13-2004 13:52:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Bob, 07-13-2004 13:13:13  
I completely understand and respect you trying to lay out a worst-case scenario, but things are rarely that bad. And yes, he has to figure in the cost of potential repairs into the deal, but that's also a good bargaining chip to get the price knocked down a bunch. Of course, he could also go out and buy a "cherry" tractor, put 20 hours on it and shell it out worse than this one. How do you plan for that? You don't. You strike the best deal you can on the machine you want and feel is up to your needs and hope for the best. It's always buyer beware, and that goes without saying.

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Bob

07-13-2004 11:32:32




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 Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to G-MAN, 07-13-2004 11:18:00  
But what does that day's time, with all the proper tools, not to mention reassembly time translate into, in $$$$ at the customer level?



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G-MAN

07-13-2004 13:56:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Bob, 07-13-2004 11:32:32  
That depends on the shop rate, the person doing the work, the seriousness of the problem, whether the customer wants to install new, used or rebuilt parts, and several other factors. Some fly-by-night yahoo could maybe do the job for $20 per hour. If it takes him 50 hours vs. a professional charging $30 per hour for 20 hours, that makes a big difference. I'm not trying to argue either, just stating that most quad-range repairs do not require completely gutting the trans and rear-end, pulling the finals and so forth. I've done probably 15 synchrorange and quad-range repairs and have had to pull the differential driveshaft out of one of those, for a broken "A"-range gear in a 4430. THe others were top-shafts, a couple of Perma-Clutches and a few two-speeds.

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Mike M

07-14-2004 09:43:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to G-MAN, 07-13-2004 13:56:59  
It sounds like you have been into an awful lot of these trannys. Are they designed bad ? And if so does a 40 series or newer hold up better ? Or is it operator error tearing them up ??



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G-MAN

07-14-2004 10:42:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Mike M, 07-14-2004 09:43:53  
No, to be honest I haven't been in that many, at least compared to the 8- and 15-speed powershift trannies I've done, but 95% of the tractors in this neck of the woods are powershifts, which explains that. I've been wrenching on JD tractors in dealerships for around 5 years, and most of the work non-powershift work I've done on them has been on the synchrorange trannies, like those found in 4020s. The Quad-Range is basically a synchrorange with a two-speed in front of it to give 1-2, 3-4 and 1R-2R powershifts in each of four ranges. And they also introduced the bulletproof wet-style Perma-Clutch in the Quad-Range. I've been clear into one 4430 tranny all the way to removing the diff drive shaft and everything else has been top shafts (where the synchronizers are) and Perma-Clutches. Keep in mind that the early 4430s and 4630s are now more than 30 years old, and many have in excess of 10,000 hours on them and much more. Sure, you can tear one up if you're hard on it or don't keep it serviced, but for the most part they're darn tough.

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RickB

07-13-2004 16:28:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to G-MAN, 07-13-2004 13:56:59  
If the symptoms are confined to C range, I'd not bet on a top shaft repair fixing it. Sounds more like the range gears on the pinion shaft. Of course, none of us can see or hear it from where we are.



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G-MAN

07-14-2004 07:53:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to RickB, 07-13-2004 16:28:49  
It's very possible that the problem is on that shaft, but as you said, we can't diagnose over the internet. My issue is with the comment about tranny problems usually requiring removing the final drives and differential. Anybody that's done much Deere work knows that isn't the case.



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Bob

07-13-2004 20:24:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to RickB, 07-13-2004 16:28:49  
That certainly would seem to be the likely scenario.



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G-MAN

07-14-2004 07:51:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to Bob, 07-13-2004 20:24:35  
That would seem to be the likely scenario? Have you done a lot of Deere trans work? Have you heard the noise or diagnosed the problem? Yes, the problem could very well be on the diff drive shaft. That isn't the issue. The issue is your comment that nearly all tranny problems in a 4430 require gutting the case, which is not true in the slightest.



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Bob

07-14-2004 15:54:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD 4430 in reply to G-MAN, 07-14-2004 07:51:08  
Yes, as a matter of fact, I have done a fair amount of Deere tranny work,from "H"'s, "D"'s, "70"'s, "720's, "730'"s, "2010"'s, "2020"'s, "2950"'s, "3010"'s, "3020"'s, "4010"'s. "4020"'s, "4320"'s, "4230"'s, "4430"'s, "4630"'s, "4640"'s, "5020"'s, "6030"'s, "7520"'s, "8430"'s, "8630"'s, and "8640"'s, and based on this experience, I would definitely consider it a possibility that the differential pinion shaft MIGHT have to be removed to correct a noise in "C" range.

I feel that it was reasonable advice to the potential buyer of the tractor that this is a definite possibility!

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