So I have a 52 8n that has been sitting 3 years now. I started working on it trying to get it running. I replaced the starter, battery, points, condenser, coil, plugs and wires, and rotor button and cap on the distributor and Rebuilt the carb as well. I poured a little transmission fluid down each spark plug hole to help lubricate the rings and valves while I was priming the oil pump. After some time I was able to get it to fire off, I let it run for about 10 minutes as it smoked and burned the transmission fluid out of the cylinders, the smoke cleared up and it ran for another 5 minutes and then died and wouldnt crank back up. I tried everything including a little starting fluid, cant even get a sputter out of it. It has fuel, air, my spark is good but sometimes it will have a orange spark and then itll go back to a strong blue spark which isnt normal I know. I havent done a proper compression test yet due to a lack of time haha. But it has enough compression to blow my thumb off the plug holes. Any ideas? The governor is also loud at a low idle when I did have it running.
- Thread starter Jprice554
- Start date
Janicholson
Well-known Member
First is a friendly suggestion. Don't fix everything till it runs. Every replaced/fixed component can by itself cause the issue, and be very difficult to identify. It sounds like the points need to be cleaned and regapped. Emory board followed by a folded dollar bill between them to assure they are clean. New points have goo on them. Jim
rustred
Well-known Member
what is with replacing all these parts,... parts do not wear out when he tractor is sitting. better check your fuel going into the carb , might be plugged at the tank outlet from rust. dont worry about compression now as it was running and blows your thumb off the hole is good. and yes the spark has to be strong and blue, orange is no good. you replaced so much stuff that you might have caused the problem . have you primed it with gas like spraying it in from a squirt bottle while cranking it? are the plugs dry or wet when u remove them? if dry u have a gas problem . where are u checking this spark? check with plugs removed and grounded. crank means to turn the engine over with the starter. replace the word crank with start.
Thanks for the reply! I should have been a little more detailed. The battery and starter were both worn out when it was parked so I knew that was the first things to replace, and when I started looking deeper a lot of components hard started to corrode and tarnish from sitting in the barn for so long. I will try and clean the points some as well as try the spark plug test with the 1/4 gap. Do you think I could have lost compression and the transmission fluid sealed the rings or valves enough for it to fire up and run for the 15-20 minutes? Thats my main concern is if it lost compression from sitting. The short time I was running, it had 20 psi of oil pressure at low idle and 40 while running full throttle hot. The engine was overhauled about 5 years ago and hasnt been used much since.
My apologies, battery and starter where going out before it was parked. I knew they need replaced. And the plugs and wires looked horrible. The inside of the distributor cap had started to corrode and tarnish bad. And the carb was leaking fuel out of every hole it could find. So I went ahead and rebuilt the carb. Ive tried gas in a spray bottle as well as a little starting fluid. I also tried a little gas down each plug holes. It cranked on its own the first time with no assurance other than the ATF in the plug holes. Now it wont fire off starting fluid of a mist of gas, the carb is pulling air strongly through the intake side. I also pulled the drain plug on the carb and have a constant stream of gas pouring out. And I checked spark by pulling the plugs and grounding them to the block. The plugs are dry every time I pull them, but my concern is the fact that it wont even Sputter on the starting fluid or gas spray in the air intake side of the carb. And yeah I didnt catch the word crank when I was typing the post up.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Always trouble shoot then parts even if you think things where bad when you parked it. Plus after sitting that long the rings could well be sticking so you then have low compression. One needs to do an ATF treatment so as to free up sticking rings and also simple trouble shooting
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
Humm!! Not a Ford guy but you say the governor is noisy at an idle, Ford guys is this common on a Ford? I am guessing it is up front by the gear train maybe even close to the distributor? Is this one of those distributors you can drop a screw down in the bottom and it can jam up in things in there? Was this engine open while it was setting could it have a big old mouse nest up in the gear train up there and things got rusty and maybe slipped and got out of time? These are just theories, but worthy of investigation I would say. In others words check your distributor timing is still correct on TDC of compression for number one cylinder.
Jprice554 ,Check clean and reset the point gap .025.Pull a brown paper,dollar bill ,or white paper between point gap to clean them.Hold coil wire removed from the cap 1/4" away from the head crank over ignition on ,you should have a even 1/4" spark or better every time the points open.If you have good spark now try starting it with a shot of starting fluid in carb throat.
This post was edited by Den N Ms on 07/07/2022 at 03:14 am.
This post was edited by Den N Ms on 07/07/2022 at 03:14 am.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
There should be a drain plug at the bottom of the carb.
Drain the carb and catch fuel with a rag to see if there
is a bunch of crap inside the carb and a good fuel flow..
There can be 3 screens to filter fuel.
One screen inside the tank attached to the sediment bowl.
The sediment bowl has a screen.
The brass 90 at carb has a screen.
Check for a good fuel flow.
I have removed both fuel mix screws on my Jubilee and with the drain plug removed gave each hole a puff of air.
I've also blown the fuel line backwards with the fuel cap removed. Just a puff of air to blow crap off the screen inside the tank.
Use a spark plug attached to the wire coming from the coil.
Check for a good spark. Have the plug resting on the frame.
Check for a good spark at the end of the plug wire..
Do a compression test. Isn't the 8n a flat head?
Good compression, fuel and spark, it should run..
Good spark and good fuel it should run. .
Drain the carb and catch fuel with a rag to see if there
is a bunch of crap inside the carb and a good fuel flow..
There can be 3 screens to filter fuel.
One screen inside the tank attached to the sediment bowl.
The sediment bowl has a screen.
The brass 90 at carb has a screen.
Check for a good fuel flow.
I have removed both fuel mix screws on my Jubilee and with the drain plug removed gave each hole a puff of air.
I've also blown the fuel line backwards with the fuel cap removed. Just a puff of air to blow crap off the screen inside the tank.
Use a spark plug attached to the wire coming from the coil.
Check for a good spark. Have the plug resting on the frame.
Check for a good spark at the end of the plug wire..
Do a compression test. Isn't the 8n a flat head?
Good compression, fuel and spark, it should run..
Good spark and good fuel it should run. .
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Fill the cylinders with ATF and let it sit a few days simple as that
rustred
Well-known Member
i am not understanding how the plugs can be dry when u give it gas in the cyl's. plus when these plugs are grounded and your checking spark is the spark blue and snapping.? new points must be cleaned before install and setting. all that takes is slide them through your shirt by the snaps, i been doing that since christ was a cowboy. are you setting the points correctly? they must be set on the high side of the cam to the proper spec. you did not say what u set them to. also new point are not flat , the movable contact is convex. plus they must be lined up squarely for good contact. with the ignition on you should have a spark at the points when you open them on the low cam or when in closed position. maybe just give it a pull start and see what happens. dont hurt to give it a few pumps of engine oil into each cyl. also to build compression, as you dumping gas in them has washed them.
The plugs are dry when I try to crank it normally, after I pulled them and dried them and tried to crank it without any assistance they were still dry, but the carb is sucking hard enough to pull my hand tight to the inlet so I figure it should suck starting fluid in or gas in a spray bottle. Yet the plugs are still dry. I set the points according to the manual. I got the PDF manual from the forums and set them accordingly, Ive cleaned them as well. I have good strong blue spark at times when I check. Then I can check again a few minutes later and I have a weak blue/orange spark. Its an intermittent spark basically. This is my first time working on an 8N, I can work on the Ford 3cylinder and 4 cylinder diesels all day long but Im blind when it comes to the 6volt gas engine with points. I used the manual but I still may have them set wrong.
I read to set the spark plug gap at .025-.028 is that correct? Also I read to take an old plug and set it to 1/4 inch gap and see if it had enough spark to jump the gap in open air as a way to test the spark. This is my first time with an 8N so Im green around the gills here.
12V coil can get you the 1/4 inch gap jump.
That 6V coil will not jump that distance.
You might get an 1/8 inch gap, (.125) if your lucky.
Plug on your machine should be running the .025 gap and as the plug wears it can widen itself out to .028 and still be within spec.
Electricity is like most people.
Minimal effort.
That 40,000 Volt coil is NOT going to fire 40,000 volts each time. Only what is needed to jump that .025 gap.
Chances are the 6V coil is down around 10,000 Volt or less.
That 6V coil will not jump that distance.
You might get an 1/8 inch gap, (.125) if your lucky.
Plug on your machine should be running the .025 gap and as the plug wears it can widen itself out to .028 and still be within spec.
Electricity is like most people.
Minimal effort.
That 40,000 Volt coil is NOT going to fire 40,000 volts each time. Only what is needed to jump that .025 gap.
Chances are the 6V coil is down around 10,000 Volt or less.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
I put a plastic see through fuel filter on my Jubilee.
On hot days when the gas temp got to 155F I could see an air bubble in the filter, the fuel would stop flowing in a few minutes, the engine stopped.
Wait for the gas temp to lower and fuel will flow again..
The heat from the radiator heated the gas in the tank.
I finally replaced the tank. Got a new one from YT.
My fuel filter was vapor locking. Got rid of the filter, I only use screen filters..Paper filters wouldn't work for me..
Many say paper filters work for them..
Mine worked except on very hot days..
Check the compression. Flat heads are notorious for valve issues.
Valves, seats and stems may be rusty and out of specks.
See if you have a spark at the plugs.
Check plugs. If they are wet, no spark.
If they are dry, no gas.
On hot days when the gas temp got to 155F I could see an air bubble in the filter, the fuel would stop flowing in a few minutes, the engine stopped.
Wait for the gas temp to lower and fuel will flow again..
The heat from the radiator heated the gas in the tank.
I finally replaced the tank. Got a new one from YT.
My fuel filter was vapor locking. Got rid of the filter, I only use screen filters..Paper filters wouldn't work for me..
Many say paper filters work for them..
Mine worked except on very hot days..
Check the compression. Flat heads are notorious for valve issues.
Valves, seats and stems may be rusty and out of specks.
See if you have a spark at the plugs.
Check plugs. If they are wet, no spark.
If they are dry, no gas.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
90PSI is about as low as you want it to be. I'd bet it has sticking rings and or valves. A good AT treatment may help that a lot
That can probably be traced back to a few items.
You could have a bad ign switch that has lousy contacts and dropping voltage to the ignition system.
You could have a weak coil.
You could simply have dirty points. A cheap points file or the wife's nail file to clean them up and recheck the gap.
You could have a bad ignition condenser.
You could have a worn dist shaft and wobbling around as it turns.
Me?
File the points, (try it) check voltage at the coil (battery side) while cranking, does it bounce, say 4 to 8 volts?
Grab the dist shaft and see if it wobbles enough that the points might be getting bounced around and not opening properly.
You could have a bad ign switch that has lousy contacts and dropping voltage to the ignition system.
You could have a weak coil.
You could simply have dirty points. A cheap points file or the wife's nail file to clean them up and recheck the gap.
You could have a bad ignition condenser.
You could have a worn dist shaft and wobbling around as it turns.
Me?
File the points, (try it) check voltage at the coil (battery side) while cranking, does it bounce, say 4 to 8 volts?
Grab the dist shaft and see if it wobbles enough that the points might be getting bounced around and not opening properly.
rustred
Well-known Member
have you verified the point gap setting??? a person gives details but not verifying its been done. the tractor was running so its highly unlikely u have a compression problem. i used the manual but still may have set them wrong that why i wanted to know how they were set. are they set on the high lobe to the factory spec,??? maybe they moved once the engine started thats why it stopped. please verify the point settings. is the coil installed correctly??? there is lots to confirm as you have not give any info as to what you have done. changing a coil means nothing. give details as to where + and - are hooked to. its a step by step procedure , not jumping all over .
So I confirmed I had proper voltage to an through the coil, I checked the points again and they are still set the same way as when I set them originally. I did a compression test. I had great spark when I checked it but the plugs were dry again. So I pulled the carb and took it back apart and noticed the float level wasnt set right,it was set too high and was flooding constantly. I adjusted it per the manual specs and put it all back together, bolted it back on and she fired up and has been running for an hour now. Now Im scared to cut it off, sacred it might not crank back up. But I believe my problem is definitely fuel. And sorry to be jumping around or not giving enough details. I honestly dont know what Im looking at when working on this one. All my other tractors are 3 and 4 cylinder Ford diesels, I have no experience on a gas 8n.
So I ran it for over an hour, i killed the engine and it wouldnt start back up. Immediately checked fuel by pulling the carburetor drain, have a good constant fuel flow. I then pulled a spark plug amd check the spark, its weak so I took a meter and check the ohms acros the coil, I only have 1.7 ohms across the coil on a 6 volt coil. It that a good ohm reading or is that low? Its also running lean according to the plugs, they are tan ish white. So I need to adjust the carb for sure.
So I ran it for over an hour, finials got it running. It ran great. I killed the engine and it would not start back, I checked for fuel and had good fuel, check compression while hot, had compression, I check spark and it was weak. I got the meter out and I have 1.7 ohms across the coil with the key off. And I have 6.4 volts at the distributor side of the coil with the key on, with the key on while cranking It drops to 3.4 volts on the distributor side of the coil. Is that normal?
I must admit I have never been overly concerned with coil ohms when I found that different manufactures have different specs and it is also temperature dependent. I have bad coils 1 ohm out of spec and I have seen them bad inside the spec given.
Engine running and was shut off resulting in a no start. Was the engine allowed to set 'X' amount of time before trying a restart or was it immediate? Hot soaking a coil can also result in a no start. That is where the engine is turned off and the heat continues to build as the coolant is no longer circulating removing the heat. Hot soak.
If it was an intermediate try to start and no such luck then the ignition key can come into play as well as your ballast resistor which the ignition switch feeds.
Welcome to Ford. They have an official Wiggle Test in which you get to wiggle wires and connections looking for opens and breaks in the wiring. You can also have a wire broken inside the insulation to add to your fun.
Distributor voltage on the ground side of the coil is dependent on the points. If open, you should see equal voltage on both sides of the coil. If the points are closed, the voltage on the ground side should be near zero. This is wher yhou can burn up a set of points when leaving the ignition on without the engine running. if the points are closed, the current will continue to flow and shorten the life of the ignition points.
Engine cranking voltage to the points will be lower as the battery is also being drained cranking the engine. If the starter is dragging, this will lower the voltage going to the coil, then being produced by the coil and ultimately will not produce enough energy to fire the plugs.
If the starter cranks well cold and then slow when warm, you might have a bad starter adding to your problems.
Engine running and was shut off resulting in a no start. Was the engine allowed to set 'X' amount of time before trying a restart or was it immediate? Hot soaking a coil can also result in a no start. That is where the engine is turned off and the heat continues to build as the coolant is no longer circulating removing the heat. Hot soak.
If it was an intermediate try to start and no such luck then the ignition key can come into play as well as your ballast resistor which the ignition switch feeds.
Welcome to Ford. They have an official Wiggle Test in which you get to wiggle wires and connections looking for opens and breaks in the wiring. You can also have a wire broken inside the insulation to add to your fun.
Distributor voltage on the ground side of the coil is dependent on the points. If open, you should see equal voltage on both sides of the coil. If the points are closed, the voltage on the ground side should be near zero. This is wher yhou can burn up a set of points when leaving the ignition on without the engine running. if the points are closed, the current will continue to flow and shorten the life of the ignition points.
Engine cranking voltage to the points will be lower as the battery is also being drained cranking the engine. If the starter is dragging, this will lower the voltage going to the coil, then being produced by the coil and ultimately will not produce enough energy to fire the plugs.
If the starter cranks well cold and then slow when warm, you might have a bad starter adding to your problems.
If the starter is not dragging a faulty coil comes to mind real fast. How does that ballast resistor look? Toasted oats?
That cute toy allows full voltage to go to the coil when it is cold. When it warms up, it drops the voltage going to the coil to keep the points from burning up with excessive voltage. Yes, that could also be contributing to your problem.
That cute toy allows full voltage to go to the coil when it is cold. When it warms up, it drops the voltage going to the coil to keep the points from burning up with excessive voltage. Yes, that could also be contributing to your problem.
My next plan to this afternoon is to check and clean all of my wiring connections, as well as check my points. Then compare my cold start voltage and readings to my hot start readings. I also cant seem to find the ballast resistor, I looked everywhere under the hood and I dont see one, my grandad left me this tractor so Im not sure what the history on it is but if it doesnt have the resistor anymore I know that can cause major issues.
I did try to start it immediately after cutting the engine off. I cant remember off the top of my head is the engine cranked slow when it was hot or not. Ill have to check that again today. I saw my electrical connections were definitely dirty and need cleaning, but I dont see a ballast resistor anywhere on the tractor.
Carlmac 369
Member
Quite well hidden on the back side of the dash if I recall correctly.
This post was edited by Carlmac 369 on 07/08/2022 at 08:14 am.
Now your on the right track. far more than a lot of people.
I believe, thinking about this now with my old far% brain, your 6V might not have the ballast resistor.
Go~ogle the 8N resistor and have a look see. >IF< you have one it should be a few inches from the ign switch.
I believe, thinking about this now with my old far% brain, your 6V might not have the ballast resistor.
Go~ogle the 8N resistor and have a look see. >IF< you have one it should be a few inches from the ign switch.
That 6V ign system might not have used one. Not going to say one way or another. If you googled it, you should have gotten a look at one and know what to look for.
The nasty part of the resistor in that era was once it was warmed up, it reduced the voltage until it cooled off again.
You go to restart a warm engine and the voltage to the points was reduced. The theory being that the warmer engine should start easier and does not need the resistor bypassed such as a cold engine would.
The nasty part of the resistor in that era was once it was warmed up, it reduced the voltage until it cooled off again.
You go to restart a warm engine and the voltage to the points was reduced. The theory being that the warmer engine should start easier and does not need the resistor bypassed such as a cold engine would.
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