How do you Diagnose a Faulty Starter or Solenoid?

RTR · May 20, 2020

Hey guys, please watch this video of my John Deere Gator. The solenoid will click, click, click, start. It might start back up the next 2 times after that but it might click once, twice, or 10 times before it starts up too. What is the cause of this typically? Not just with this Gator, but I have had a key-start Farmall Cub do it with me many times (Ford style solenoid). How do you diagnose the issue here yourself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3h9243pSX4

Steve@Advance · May 20, 2020

The simplest method is with a test light.

Ground the clip end to the starter case, anywhere convenient that it will hold onto.

Touch the point to the top stud, the battery side of the solenoid (the actual stud, not the cable end). The light should burn bright.

Try the starter, when it just clicks does the light remain bright?

If yes, move to the next test.

If no, the light goes out, start tracing back toward the battery. There is a bad connection somewhere.

Next test, move the light to the starter stud, the bottom stud of the solenoid.

Try the starter. When it just clicks, is there power on the bottom stud?

If no, the solenoid is bad.

If yes, and there is power on the actual wire going into the starter, and it is not turning, the starter is bad.

Most likely it will be a bad solenoid or a bad connection.

warbaby · May 20, 2020

bypass the solenoid- if the starter now turns, then you have a bad solenoid. If the starter still doesnt turn, then you have a bad starter.

Or a bad ground....

wore out · May 20, 2020

(quoted from post at 05:35:28 05/20/20) Hey guys, please watch this video of my John Deere Gator. The solenoid will click, click, click, start. It might start back up the next 2 times after that but it might click once, twice, or 10 times before it starts up too. What is the cause of this typically? Not just with this Gator, but I have had a key-start Farmall Cub do it with me many times (Ford style solenoid). How do you diagnose the issue here yourself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3h9243pSX4

The contacts in your starter solenoid MAY be nearly worn out, or there may simply be excessive voltage drop in the starting circuit wiring due to age and wear and tear and corrosion, etc..

John Deere had problems like this with a number of garden tractor models and sells a "starting improvement kit" that uses a small relay near the starter to switch the relatively high current needed by to operate the starter solenoid.

I've heard of this being done with Gators, as well.

The kit is quite $$$ from DEERE, but if you have some 12 Volt electrical knowledge it can be done for under $20, worth a try, I'd say.

You need a "Bosch-style" "ice cube relay" and a little wire and a few wire connectors to do this.

A schematic is on Page 8 at the link below.

https://www.greenpartstore.com/assets/images/bulletins/2011/am107421_instructions.pdf

SVcummins · May 20, 2020

The best way I?ve found is with a big set of jumper cables
hook to the battery then the starter and try it then you can find
out if it?s a bad connection

Janicholson · May 20, 2020

Jims opinion: The battery is going bad on one cell. Put a volt meter on the battery (on a fresh start in the morning) it should read battery voltage.
12.6 if 12v. Watch the meter as it cranks. If it clicks, the voltage may be down around 6 to 8 volts. as it clicks, the good cells in the battery
charge the bad cell, and the dang voltage will increase. Then it will start. The clicking will start close together at first, then farther apart, then
start. Jim

RTR · May 20, 2020

(quoted from post at 19:39:25 05/20/20) Jims opinion: The battery is going bad on one cell. Put a volt meter on the battery (on a fresh start in the morning) it should read battery voltage.
12.6 if 12v. Watch the meter as it cranks. If it clicks, the voltage may be down around 6 to 8 volts. as it clicks, the good cells in the battery
charge the bad cell, and the dang voltage will increase. Then it will start. The clicking will start close together at first, then farther apart, then
start. Jim

We thought the same thing and bought a new interstate battery. That was not the problem.

Janicholson · May 20, 2020

Ten there is heat being built up somewhere in the system. still do the voltage test this time at the starter input cable as it goes into the starter,
to ground. if the voltage changes the issue could be in a wire, or connection, doing the variable volt thing. Jim

Deutz Lover · May 20, 2020

The first two possible problems, starter brushes or solenoid are most likely, but I recently ran into a problem with my Ford 4000 that appeared to be both. I Used a charged older battery. It would hang or sounded like the solenoid was hanging. It got to a point that even charging the battery fully and immediately trying it would not work. I bought a new Dekka battery, but it would not work. I thought this new battery was defective.

I finally removed the starter and tried to rotate the armature. It was hard to turn. The motor drew more current than it should and the copper connector to the solenoid got hot. The lubricant was dried up and hard. I cleaned it and replaced the lube. Both the new and old battery would immediately start the tractor. It had looked like the starter brushes or battery because you could sometimes get it to engage and start repeatedly, but if you let it sit for a day or so it would not work. This had been a head scratcher for me.

guido · May 20, 2020

Hello RTR,

Volt meter....

Guido.

Deutz Lover · May 20, 2020

I forgot to include that it was not the rear bearing, but the bendix drive and associated sleeve that had hardened lubricant. The stirrup would not move forward and the motor would not spin.

wore out · May 20, 2020

I should have been more clear in my previous reply.

My point was that it's a known fact that the type of "positive engagement" starters used on Kawasaki engines are known to require good current to the "engage" terminal on their solenoid to completely engage and not just "click".

First thing to to is be SURE it's out of gear/parking brake "ON", then jumper from the battery cable stud on the solenoid to the little "engage" terminal tab on the solenoid and note if it engages/cranks reliably when this is done.

If so, the "starting improvement" I previously wrote about will cure the issue.

Deutz Lover · May 20, 2020

My search image stopped at John Deere and I did not see "Gator". I am not familiar with the starters on Kawasaki engines.

The starters on these are probably a little simpler than on the Ford 4000 so the diagnosis is different.

guido · May 20, 2020

Hello RTR,

Had time to watch the video. When you turn the key and it clicks,
keep the key in start position, and tap the solenoid with a soft mallet or
a piece of wood.

Sounds like the solenoid is sticking. If it is, it will start the
engine, with that little persuasion.

Again volt meter is what I use, that is what you need to start using
and check volgages. If you need more help let me know.

OR......send me your phone number, and I'll talk to you (at your
convinience ) through the diagnostic procedure. My email is open,

Guido.

caterpillar guy · May 21, 2020

I'd start by cleaning all connections first. Then try the starter. More batteries are replaced for bad starters. Then find out it was the solenoid or the starter, not the battery. If no joy then follow the other ideas posted. Look for hot connections or cables that will tell the story right there.

RTR · May 21, 2020

(quoted from post at 05:48:04 05/21/20) Hello RTR,

Had time to watch the video. When you turn the key and it clicks,
keep the key in start position, and tap the solenoid with a soft mallet or
a piece of wood.

Sounds like the solenoid is sticking. If it is, it will start the
engine, with that little persuasion.

Again volt meter is what I use, that is what you need to start using
and check volgages. If you need more help let me know.

OR......send me your phone number, and I'll talk to you (at your
convinience ) through the diagnostic procedure. My email is open,

Guido.

Thank you for the offer. It might be next week before I m around it again to test it. We are going to the beach for the weekend. I do have a multimeter but don t know how to use it really aside from checking battery voltage and doing continuity tests with the beeper.

newtothis · Jun 20, 2020

I would agree with wore out.
Fit a 12 volt relay on the solenoid circuit to cure your problem. This is a common problem on a lot of Diesel engines. An example of relay is
4 Pin 40/30 AMP 12 V DC Relay and Harness - Heavy Duty 12 AWG Tinned Copper Wires, SPST Automotive Relay

Disconnect lead into solenoid and connect it to white lead (86) on relay. Connect blue lead (87) to solenoid. Connect red lead (30) to 12v power (large lead going to starter) and black lead (85) earthed.

How do you Diagnose a Faulty Starter or Solenoid?

RTR

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Steve@Advance

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warbaby

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wore out

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SVcummins

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Janicholson

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RTR

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Deutz Lover

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guido

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wore out

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