Massey Ferguson 165 gas pistons

Deutz Lover · Dec 28, 2019

I have a relative whose MF165 ran dry without oil resulting in the babitt metal melting in the rod lower ends. I have been able to find most of the parts to repair it, but I cannot find gas pistons and rings. Does anyone know where new or used ones can be found.

I am not sure the pistons have been damaged, but I still think new rings would be in order. The liners are the same ones used in the diesel version.

The engine is a Perkins AG4.212 and was also used in combines.

VicS · Dec 28, 2019

I just looked on this sight. Right above.
Their is gas pistons and sleeves for a 165
continental gas engine. Easy to miss are
amongst diesel p and s. And are more
expensive.

Deutz Lover · Dec 28, 2019

Unfortunately the engine is not a Continental engine, but a Perkins that uses the same liner as the Perkins diesel. Probably the block is the same or modified. I think the crank and camshaft are also common to both engines.

Dieseltech · Dec 28, 2019

The MF dealer I worked for sold a late 165 with that engine, and at that time Perkins only supplied individual parts for the AG4 212 and AG4 236 gas engines. No sleeve assemblies were ever available that I recall. Never saw that engine in a combine either, the Perkins AD4 203, A4 300, A4 318, 6.354, 6.372, and V8 540 diesels were common in MF combines.

fixerupper · Dec 28, 2019

This wont help you but I ran into that problem with an early 180 continental gas. The serial number was 82 so it was very early. The owner s relative, maybe a cousin was the head parts man in Racine at that time and he said only a few of the first 180 gas tractors were Continental, the rest of the gassers were Perkins. He said this Continental gas engine was made only for the 180 Massey and was used in nothing else. When they quit making the engine they quit making parts, end of story. When the owner finally drove the tractor away from my shop it had a Perkins diesel in it. It was a sweet tractor.

Deutz Lover · Dec 28, 2019

The MF 180 uses the same flanged liner as the 165. The difference is that the stroke is longer (4.5" vs 5"). I thought that the gas piston might be the same in both, but I don't have the specs and the product number ends with an eight instead of a nine. Both are for a 3.875 id liner.

showcrop · Dec 29, 2019

You don't buy them yourself. You buy them from the shop that you take the crankshaft to. He will find the right ones and you will pay less than you can go and get them for yourself. It is what they do everyday. The last engine that I did was an oddball. The pistons were going to be $220.00 each from the largest on-line store for that car. They were not even the domed ones that are preferred. The local automotive machine shop got me the preferred domed ones for under $100.00 each

Dieseltech · Dec 29, 2019

The Continental G 206 gas in the 180 was also used in the 175. Had one in for repair at the dealer I worked for years ago.

Dieseltech · Dec 29, 2019

The rods are the same as the AG4 236, crank has the shorter stroke and pistons have a different pin location, lower from the top than the 236 piston. Might be easier to find a diesel 236/248 engine to bolt in, you would then throw rocks at that gasser after using the diesel awhile...

ptfarmer · Dec 29, 2019

Liners part number 736507M2
Pistons part number 737881M91
Rings part number 737362M91

fixerupper · Dec 29, 2019

Dieseltech I worked on the 180 almost 20 years ago. Maybe someone stepped up to the bat and made parts for that engine since then. I forget what exact parts could not be obtained but an old line Massey dealer could not come up with the parts I needed from any catalog. If he couldn t find parts, nobody could, he was that kind of a dealer. The tractor s owner called his relative in the head parts office in Racine and the relative knew all about this engine and said the parts supply ended when the engine was dropped. I think the owner Of this 180 kept the old engine and its parts. If parts are now available I would be tempted to rebuild that engine just because I can. I know he would never ever convert that tractor back to gas now that he has that sweet Perkins in it. I have a beat up, abused 175 diesel I bought as a project and the engine is the only part of it that has stood up well to the abuse.

ptfarmer · Dec 29, 2019

The Massey Ferguson 184-4 (made in Italy) with the A4.236 diesel shows to use the same part number block 741730M91 (Engine Serial Number 212 UA 4223A And Up).

MikeJM · Dec 30, 2019

I did some quick looking and gas 212 pistons appear to be made out of unobtainium. Gas 236 pistons, no problem, trouble is compression height is different, so that won t work unless you change the crank.

It might be possible to take diesel 212 pistons and open the bowl up to the compression ratio you d like. I m not sure if the wrist pin in the same or not.

The other viable option is to ditch the gas 212 and repower with a diesel 236 or 248.

Or if the 165 is a total heap, they can find another tractor to destroy.

Deutz Lover · Dec 30, 2019

It appears from information everyone has given that the blocks for the 212 and the 236 are the same. I am thinking that the 236 crank and 236 pistons would do the job. I think the 236 gas pistons are still available. The rings are also the same. The result would be 10 more horsepower than the AG4.212 engine.

Deutz Lover · Dec 30, 2019

MikeJM, I saw that you have already checked about the pistons.

Thanks everyone,

I now have possibilities to report to my relative. I had already discussed diesel with him, but that is too expensive and not his engine of choice at his age. Gas is easier to maintain and cheaper to repair. He might be planning to trade for a Ford of similar vintage which is easier to find parts for.

ptfarmer · Dec 30, 2019

A similar vintage Ford (1965 and up) if it's a gasser like the 3 cylinder, pistons are about impossible to find. I don't know if the 4 cylinder gasser's (1965 and up) are hard to find or not if he finds a gasser.

MikeJM · Dec 31, 2019

Ptfarmer, you are correct, certain gas ford pistons are almost impossible to source. I can get 158 gas pistons, but 175 s are tough. The engines are modular to a point sharing different bore and stroke combos for the 3 and 4 cylinders using the same basic rod except in the high horsepower turbocharged applications.

The made post 1965
3 cylinder gas
158, 175, 192 and 201
Diesel
158, 175, 183, 192 and 201

4 cylinder gas
233 and 256
Diesel
233, 256 and 268

I have found that the gas ford engines are not any cheaper to work on than the diesel version for the most part, I ve found certain gas specific parts like pistons to be slightly more expensive than the equivalent diesel. I m sure the Perkins gas vs Diesel is the same thing, probably 20 diesels for every gas engine in the same version. The basic design of both engines were designed for diesel fuel and adapted to gas to meet some small demands for gasoline fueled engines.

Deutz Lover · Dec 31, 2019

I think the main cost people consider is the cost to replace the injection pump or overhaul it and the injectors replaced. It is generally easier to trouble shoot a gasoline system than a diesel to some.

Deutz Lover · Dec 31, 2019

I forgot to add this:

Some parts seem ridiculously difficult to obtain. I can get pistons, rings, liners, and bearings for a Super C C123, but cannot get a new oil pump, Oil pumps for diesels abound. The only new pump I found was over $700.

buickanddeere · Dec 31, 2019

(quoted from post at 09:10:19 12/29/19) The rods are the same as the AG4 236, crank has the shorter stroke and pistons have a different pin location, lower from the top than the 236 piston. Might be easier to find a diesel 236/248 engine to bolt in, you would then throw rocks at that gasser after using the diesel awhile...

For a low hour, putting around , winter used tractor that diesn g Have to worry about waxed up fuel filters . A gasser can have it s place for causal use.
A gasser Vs a 2020 Tier IV diesel in light duty service. In some applications the gasser would be the desired choice .

Deutz Lover · Dec 31, 2019

I guess that is the real question. Casual or full time use. I think my relative is a moderate to casual user so gas would be better for him. Also age is a consideration here. If we were all much younger a diesel might make more sense.

Massey Ferguson 165 gas pistons

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Similar threads