OT: c6 transmission front pump seal

Sorry for this not being tractor related but i posted this on yesterdays trucks but got no responses, and i know there are some pretty knowledgeable people here. I have a 1980 bronco with a c6 transmission, transmission only has about 10k miles on it due to the truck sitting for a long time because of engine issues. I'd like to be able to replace the front pump seal, I don't think it leaks but its easy enough to get to. Now i have no experience with automatic transmissions, i have plenty with manuals though, so what am i getting into here? i've read on other forums that the seal can be replaced without tearing most of the transmission apart but nothing really explaining how to do it. Any advice? or know where i can get a book for this transmission showing me what i'd be getting into? Also i've already tried transmission shops, none of the ones around me even what to touch this thing. Thanks

Yes, you can replace the seal without tearing the transmission apart.

BUT - getting the old seal out is no problem. Use whatever method you prefer to remove the seal. Just be careful of the stator shaft. That is the splined outside shaft sticking out of the front.

Installing the seal is a bit more tricky. It needs to go in straight. They are a bit difficult to get started in straight. If you tip it too much, you will distort it and it might leak. There are special drivers made just for installing those seals. You may be able to borrow one from the local dealer or transmission shop - probably not, but worth a try. You do need to tap it in until it is flush with the front of the pump - just like the one that you take out.

piece of cake! what are they scared of??? didn't replace seals before??? idiots. few ways to it... get a cold chisel and tap the outside in... or screw a sheet metal screw in it and pull it out. then when installing the new one get a piece of pipe the same O. D. as the seal and drive it in. done. whats with the manuals , its all self explanatory. plus if it was all dry around the torque converter then why replace the seal.

Why use the word idiots? There are a few folks on this forum that you could learn something from, they don't think you are an idiot.

I have used a piece of pvc or abs pipe that fits the OD of the seal to drive them in. Works pretty well.

maybe because they are an idiot for working in a transmission shop and cant change a front seal. like wth. I have seen all kinds of stupid stuff . and don't think I could learn anything from that guy if he cant change a seal. I maybe old but im not all used up.

I'll tell you why they don't want to touch it.

It's the old "ever since ya" story. Touch that seal, and they will be liable for every thing that goes wrong with that transmission and every drop of oil that drips out of it. That makes it a good candidate for a DIY job!

In reality, we both know that there should be no issue with changing that seal. Problem is that these guys have already encountered any number of customers that want them to be "married" to the car once they lay a wrench on it. The old CYA story.

Does that make them idiots? Not really. Just once burned, twice shy.

did you go and ask them that? or speculating? they cant be too good if there scared of a seal. I would be embarrassed to say I cant do that. if they replace a C6 trans seal I sure would not take my Allison there!

It can be replaced from the front without further disassembly.

Carefully remove the old seal, collapse it inward or use sheet metal screws to pull it out.

You'll need some type of driver to get the new one back in. A piece of tubing or pipe, something the correct size to hammer the outer edge of the seal so not to collapse the middle.

Oil the lip before putting the converter back in.

Here's the catch! Be absolutely sure the converter fully seats into the pump gear before trying to install the engine!

If it is not fully seated, and the bell housing bolts are tightened, it will break the pump gear and damage the pump housing. If in doubt, take a measurement from the front of the bell housing to the converter drive stud pads, and compare the measurement from the engine plate to the flywheel surface.

There are several Youtube how to videos on the subject.

(quoted from post at 18:31:49 04/25/19) piece of cake! what are they scared of??? didn't replace seals before??? idiots. few ways to it... get a cold chisel and tap the outside in... or screw a sheet metal screw in it and pull it out. then when installing the new one get a piece of pipe the same O. D. as the seal and drive it in. done. whats with the manuals , its all self explanatory. plus if it was all dry around the torque converter then why replace the seal.

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Well lets see. I know of at least 3 transmission shops today because of liability issues will only work on an automatic if they are installing a reman or rebuilding it themselves. No seal replacements or anything because if there should be something wrong with the transmission or should it go out right after a repair the customer is apt to sue. So all 3 shops have stopped doing minor repairs like replacing a seal.

So if in today's sue happy world a business protecting themselves from a potential lawsuit makes them an idiot?

Rick

I have a 81 f150 with c6. I have the same leak but it's going to have to get worse before i want to pull the transmission. I was wondering if that seal was easily replaced as well. I have never messed with a c6 before. Thanks for asking now I know!

That is my opinion based on years of experience in dealing with retail customers from the inside. Do a small repair and be blamed for every thing to do with that unit for years to come. I can see the shop service manager wondering what condition the inside of that transmission is in. Then there is the customer that is worried about replacing a seal as if there were some mysterious potential damage that might be done in replacing the seal. Then, if it turns out that the transmission has internal problems, the shop that replaced the seal gest blamed and potentially involved in a lawsuit over it.

While you and I know that it is a simple thing, and that no harm would come of it, the customer does not know that. The next thing you know, here comes a sheriff with a summons. Even thought the customer has no chance of winning, it still costs money to defend. The shop gets accused of doing something to the transmission that caused it to fail to drum up more business.

Far fetched it may be, but stranger things have happened in the automotive repair business.

BTW, if it were me, I would change the seal for the guy and not charge him for it as a courtesy.

(quoted from post at 20:31:48 04/25/19) I have a 81 f150 with c6. I have the same leak but it's going to have to get worse before i want to pull the transmission. I was wondering if that seal was easily replaced as well. I have never messed with a c6 before. Thanks for asking now I know!

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4X4 or 2 WD?

If 4X4 it's less time and work on those to R&I the engine than it is to drop the tranny.

Rick

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you have the transmission out I?d definitely change the seal!! If it had been leaking before removal I?d go one
step farther, there?s a bushing behind the seal that should be replaced also, since urs was not leaking then chances
are you are ok!!! Like already mentioned it is VERY important to make sure the torque converter is ALL the way into
the pump before installing the transmission and make sure it doesn?t slide out when installing the transmission!! As
you tighten the transmission to the engine make sure the converter is not binding! Once the transmission is tight
against the motor the converter should still be free to slide back or forth a fraction of an inch thru the converter to
flywheel mounting studs!! As stated VERY IMPORTANT!! Front pump (transmission) damage could result and
have even seen instances where it put enough pressure on crankshaft where the motor would not turn over when
the transmission was installed without the converter properly seated into the front transmission pump!! Used to
know the measurement where u could put a straight edge across the front of transmission and measure to front
converter to be sure but don?t remember now!! If you know someone of experience doing this (installing converter) it
could be of great value to u to have them do it!!

Well someplace in one of the drawer of my old roller cabinet lays a seal puller thaat i used to pop them out along with a special seal installer It is a hook tool that is long and has a handle and a plae to hit with a hammer and made short work out of that job and the seal installer you placed the new seal on it and it would go over the input shaft and one good hit and the seal was installed perfect . When replacing the converter you have to FEEL it go in all the the steps while sorta lifting and turning , there are three steps you have to feel , ya have the input shaft the reaction shaft and the ft pump notches . Look at the outer surface of the converter for any signs of ware . If there is groves then the bushing and converter needs replaced . Last C 6 i built was WAY back like in 1980 . Gave up on slush boxes for a working truck at best i could get about five or six years out of one and they never drop kicked ya till the day ya needed the truck the most. I have all the special tools for the C4, C6 and FMX along with the 727 and 904. Someplace .

(quoted from post at 23:42:29 04/25/19) I'll tell you why they don't want to touch it.

It's the old "ever since ya" story. Touch that seal, and they will be liable for every thing that goes wrong with that transmission and every drop of oil that drips out of it. That makes it a good candidate for a DIY job!

In reality, we both know that there should be no issue with changing that seal. Problem is that these guys have already encountered any number of customers that want them to be "married" to the car once they lay a wrench on it. The old CYA story.

Does that make them idiots? Not really. Just once burned, twice shy.

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You sure said a mouthful there. 100% true.

If the tranny is out, set the tail in a pail or barrel & pull the front cover. Then you can replace the bushing & seal. There is also a gasket & o ring that seals the cover. Then the job is complete.

Well, this thread has progressed from a simple question about a seal to instructions for installing your engine. Are you sorry you asked now?

Does that shaft not look rusty to anyone else?


jimg, play nice or the guys will go to another coffee shop to chat and not tell you which one, LOL.

Drill a small hole in the side of the seal. Then with a screw in the hole you can probably pull the seal out then put the new one in. Might want to have the transmission aimed down and polish the shaft to clean it some while sale is out . Your call.