Adding a loader, Ford 3000, have hydraulic questions....

BigPapa53 · Jan 2, 2019

I will preface this post by saying I know that using the OE hydraulics on my Ford 3000 to power the loader will be slow. Before I get into buying another pump, I just want to mount it to the tractor and make sure everything works as it should and I wanted to see if what I'm thinking is correct.

We have a later model 3000 where I work with a Bush Hog 2425QT on it. It is plumbed up with this adapter plate installed between the cover and the standard block-off plate.

These two hoses are all that are connected between the joystick valve and the tractor. There are only two ports on the adapter which I'm sure came with the loader. As it is hooked up, the loader and the 3pt both work.

So, here's a basic diagram of how I'm thinking to hook it up.

My question is the Power-Beyond. I'm not exactly sure I understand how it works.

Thanks.

-Scott

BigPapa53 · Jan 2, 2019

Just looking to see if my idea will work.

-Scott

JD Seller · Jan 2, 2019

The block you have pictured IS the POWER BEYOND BLOCK. it blocks the oil from how it would normally flow to the three point. With this block it goes to the loader control valve FIRST and then BACK to the block. It is an open centered hydraulic system. meaning the oil is free flowing in a loop until a function is used. On this setup IF you lift the loader and try to raise the three point at the same time the three point would only have the oil returning form the loader cylinder to lift with until you would stop using the loader function.

On this type of Ford system that plate/area is where you hook a Power beyond block or a Rear remote valve. Just remember everything is in series. So where the oil goes first works first if your doing multiple functions.

jm. · Jan 2, 2019

JD Seller with that two line set up to the loader valve what happens when the loader or bucket tops out, where does the relief oil go. Ever one I ever saw the loader had a tank return to take the flow after the cylinders stroked out. Will his loader valve only have a in (Pressure_ ) and PB with no drain line?

sotxbill · Jan 2, 2019

The safety valve in the LOADER control valve will kick in,, and this will bypass the oil to return. A internal valve on the transmission mounted ford pump can also go into bypass mode. Both are considered "deadheading" the pump and heat up the fluid quickly. The transmission factory pump should be set around 2175lbs or a bit higher on a ford 3000.

As to other question, if you have two way cyls on the loader, as one side fills with fluid, it displaces a somewhat equal amount on the other side that is being returned, so that returned fluid will go on to operate the 3 pt lift at the same time. If one way cyls,,, in lift mode,,, the 3 pt will not work till lever is released.

sotxbill · Jan 2, 2019

3000's only have a 6.5 gpm pump, so yes, the loader will be slow. The next series, 3600, improved the flow somewhat.

Lots of 3000 with a 730 loader had the aux front mounted pump that was 13 to 15 gpm. However these loaders are a bit fast if your trying to work close to an obstruction.... er... like your wife's truck bed... hmmmmmmm.....

JD Seller · Jan 2, 2019

(quoted from post at 16:49:40 01/02/19) JD Seller with that two line set up to the loader valve what happens when the loader or bucket tops out, where does the relief oil go. Ever one I ever saw the loader had a tank return to take the flow after the cylinders stroked out. Will his loader valve only have a in (Pressure_ ) and PB with no drain line?

Jim that is why on the open center systems you use a loader control valve with a built in pressure relief valve. If you dead head the loader cylinders the pressure relief valve in the loader control valve will dump the oil into the return side of the valve. There is no need for an additional return line.

BigPapa53 · Jan 3, 2019

Since, as I was told by someone here a while back, I only have one right hand, I won't be trying to use them both at the same time. I can't really imagine a scenario where you would need to use both at the same time.

And, as I mentioned, I understand it will be slow with the OE piston pump. I'm looking into putting a 3600 pump on it. From what I understand the only issue will be the lines.

-Scott

OregonAaron · Jan 3, 2019

I have this set up- a ford 2000/3000 with the adapter plate running a loader. It is slow, not a huge deal. Will a pump off a 3600 directly mount to my 2000/3000? If the hydraulic lines are an issue- I'm sure I can adapt them. I say 2000/3000 because my tractor is a 2000 rear half with a 3000 engine and misc parts.

BigPapa53 · Jan 3, 2019

Yes, the pump will mount to the engine. The 3600 uses a gear pump instead of the piston pump and as Bill pointed out, it flows more. If I remember correctly from when I looked them up the 3600 pump was right at double the flow of the 3000 pump. There is a thread on the discussion about it I [i:fdb211393f]THINK [/i:fdb211393f]in the Ford forum. From what I understand, the lines are the only physical difference, and they're [i:fdb211393f]TOTALLY [/i:fdb211393f]different, as far as installing. I'm like you, I'm confident I can adapt [i:fdb211393f]SOMETHING [/i:fdb211393f]for the lines.

-Scott

BigPapa53 · Jan 3, 2019

It's here:

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1350287

-Scott

OregonAaron · Jan 3, 2019

Hmmm, I read the discussion... It would be nice to hear from someone who actually did this conversion and get some real world information about how well it worked.

BigPapa53 · Jan 6, 2019

Which adapter do I need, HV4902 or HV5902? I would think I need the HV5902 and a block off plate. Anybody have a block off plate they’d like to get rid of? We don’t have any salvage yards in my area.

Guess I could sell the valve that’s on my tractor to pay for some of this stuff. My “Tractor Fund” is about tapped out....

-Scott

sotxbill · Jan 6, 2019

why sell that valve????? its missing the lever and hoses for the second two port,,, but will work fine for a loader.... thats a $600 dual two way valve you have on there. the ports are orb... (oring boss) type hydraulic fittings.

OR... you can put the power beyond block underneath this valve, but will need to get longer bolts any time you ad a power beyond block. However, if it sits too high, it may need a different or higher seat. Especially if you have the lower ford type seat. If the newer aftermarket seat, then no problem as it sits higher.

But the valve on there should have two levers and four hoses going to the rear. AND you would plumb your loader staight into those ports and just use those levers. The outer lever for up and down, and the inner lever for tilting the bucket. (the picture shows the hook up for the 2nd missing lever.)

BigPapa53 · Jan 6, 2019

Yeah, I’m missing a handle. Like that when I bought the tractor.

The loader has a valve on it I plan to use. I’m just looking for simplicity and maximum flow since the OE pump’s flow is low anyway. The fittings on the adapter are 3/4” where the ones on my valve are 3/8”, I believe. I also think for me it will be easier to operate the loader from the valve up in front of me instead of under the seat.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

-Scott

Adding a loader, Ford 3000, have hydraulic questions....

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