Adding an unfortunate truth about today

notjustair

Well-known Member
I stopping in here this morning and saw the conversation about machines that last long enough that their safety features aren?t up to the times. I
bought an 8N Ford tractor to mow electric fence lines because of just this. A pastor bought it new and it was used it?s whole life at the local
Baptist church mowing with a woods L59 mower and blading the snow in the winter. The youth group kept it all painted up and clean. I ended
up with it because they were afraid of the liability of someone using it that didn?t know about PTOs that weren?t live.

Today I ground feed with my 1950 M. I use it because it was retired from all other jobs years ago and can stay hooked to the grinder. This time
of year I use it about every two weeks and like the fact that with the M I won?t overload the grinder and break something. The tractor isn?t
powerful enough to get the old grinder into trouble. I ground about five tons of cob corn for milking mamas and it really made the old Farmall
bark. I had to think of those discussions as I climbed on and off the back of the tractor with the PTO running right by my pant leg and my bad
habit of standing on the drawbar with one food and pushing in the clutch with the other foot to start the pto without getting in the seat. My new
tractors would be peeping like crazy if I did that. Heck, I can remember feeding with it when I was younger (and it was my loader tractor) and
the wind was so bitter cold that I stood on the axle housing and looked backwards as I went down the road so my face wouldn?t freeze.
Probably not a good idea.

I can see that young folks probably have a greater chance of getting hurt on these old things because they didn?t ever spend the years on them
doing without things like live PTO. Now they have a few acres and need a tractor but can?t afford a newer one that they are familiar with, so
they get something that will run forever but isn?t anything they are comfortable on.

Of course, I probably do half a dozen things every day on this farm that are dangerous enough to get me killed. That?s kind of the perils of this
job. If I keep my wits about me I just might live to see another day.
 
I had the same experience with running dangerous equipment at the farm .Bought the 33 acre farm after retirement. Ran two Ford tractors with absent PTO guards. Cut grass with a Woods mower. Did a lot of work with minimum experience. Maybe it was a good thing the house fire chased me from the farm after only eight years there.
 
Nothing of mine is osha / idiot proof . None of us will live forever and I just as soon get my brains beat out by a pto shaft than have to live my last years in a nursing home or suffer through cancer or get Alzheimer?s
 
How about one of your kids or nephews??? The one that is wearing shorts and flip flops???

Ever seen what is left after a PTO wraps a person around it and beats them to death. I was on two squad calls that got that pleasure. So I will not even joke about it.

Also a classmate of my daughter got scalped when her hair wrapped a PTO shaft that her Dad had taken the bent shield off. The shield cost less than $20 at the time. She had over $100K in surgeries an still ended up with no hair and huge scars.
 
I teach him the same thing I was taught keep your hands out of it and don?t go near it if it?s runing . Can it happen yes . Neighbor got beat to death by a pto
 

OK you are all the man.....NOT........get a grip guys. Most you myself included have all of our arms and legs not because we are gods/good or just smarter, we have them because of sheer dumb luck. Whole lot of guys our age doing exactly what we do the exact same way are missing body parts or are dead. So that only leaves dumb luck. 2 kinds of people get hurt in these farm accidents......the young guys who don't know any better and learned from US and US, who the law of averages catches up to. We are an accident waiting for a place to happen.......and it's our families that pay the price. That is for us being stupid. They are the ones who have to pick up the pieces. It's them that either pick up the slack and nurse us back to health or buries us. Go ahead, think you are the man.....me and other guys who have been through the mill and well know what a dying man sounds like crying for mama as he dies. On the farm it isn't your friends/squad mates/crewmen that listens to you cry in agony for mama as you die......it's gonna be your wife, kids and grand kids.

Don't go getting big headed over this.....yer next!

Man up and keep your family from having to deal with you being a man in your own sick little mind! Cause a man looks after his family FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick
 
I was mowing hay 4 miles from home. The pto cover on tractor broke off. Only had 10 inches of shaft uncover. did not want to take time to drive home and fix it.In stead I bought a new a pair of pants a new pair of shoes and spent 3 weeks laid up waiting for my leg to heal. I think I could of drove home and fixed the pto cover in less that 3 weeks. Point " keep it covered"
 
You have been lucky! About spinning shafts, I was using an electric drill once and had the smallest thread hanging on my shirt sleeve figured if it ever caught it would break, next thing my shirt was wrapped up in that drill, that's all it takes.
 
It's your life,but I know personally two guys who were run over by tractors,one who lost a leg in a PTO shaft,one who was killed in a corn picker,three who lost hands or fingers in corn pickers,one killed by a bull and a woman who was mauled by a mama cow so bad that she was very lucky to survive. She did loose an eye. I don't need to be struck by lightning to know better than stand in a thunder storm with a golf club raised over my head.
 
All the shields and safety switches aren't as important as the fact of just being careful... there are many, many ways of getting hurt or killed,,,having basic knowledge and being careful will shield us from most of them..Bulls and cows don't come with a safety switch, and I don't think that they can be retro-fitted...
 
I worked in a concrete block plant for 25 years,they used to be a very dangerous place with constantly running belts,chains,automatic hydraulic equipment that starts and stop suddenly,blocks and steel pallets that can fall,plus the electrical side of things.Never had anything close to a serious injury,its a place to stay aware and be careful ALL the time.Same with my old farm equipment got to THINK before I act
a PTO shaft will never get me if I cut the PTO off before I get off the tractor,no amount of guards,safety shields etc will keep a careless person from getting hurt or killed.Matter of fact I think they give the user a false sense of security around machinery.
 


So what exactly is the answer some here are advocating? That we all need to run out and buy a new tractor? Sorry, can't do it. We have to balance the type and style of equipment we have with the real world fact that we either use what we have or sell out.
 
PTO guards were a lot more important when tractors were mounted and dismounted from behind. Far as I know, the haven’t built a tractor like that since the 60’s. Other than forage wagons, what equipment do you have any reason to be near the pto when it is running? I’m thinking back over the past few years and I can’t think of any time I’ve had a good reason to be near a running PTO shaft.
 
While it is unwise to not use reasonable caution. I guess it is up to the individual to determine what he is comfortable with. I've done things that could have been prevented with both injuries and not.
I though do not intend to advocate using machinery in bad repair nor poorly repaired we all know sometimes things need to be done whether everything is working perfectly or not. Cows need to be fed ,crops planted or harvested.
I know of several PTO shields not completely kosher that I have used for years. The tube and flare it there just can't get the spring clip in the groove or the plastic deal keeps coming out so don't worry about it. I don't wear loose sloppy clothes though not a solution completely. Is also not a good idea to not be aware of your surroundings each time you do something. Yes I have had limbs broken and cuts and bruises.
 
So why did the PTO shaft get you?If you made a habit of getting up against the shield of the PTO shaft it was just a matter of time before it got you anyway.No PTO shaft is protected enough
to be getting against it.
 
As the owner of no tractor newer than 1990 I am confused (happens easily) what does new or old equipment have to do with people being hurt or injured by PTO shafts or other non shielded equipment? On the new stuff does the PTO stop with no operator sitting in the seat? would make for a real handy auger or feed grinder tractor. Does it have sensors that do not allow the tractor PTO to operate or if there is a shield missing or if the is longhair or loose coattails hanging about?

There are at least three sides to it, Equipment design, operator presence of mind and as one said dumb luck. At the top of anyone's list should be operator's presence of mind, next in line would be equipment design and last by a long shot is dumb luck. Anyone who places too much emphasis on dumb luck is sadly mistaken. This is not Butch wisdom but 45 years of MSHA mine safety instruction drilled into my head.
 
Guys I think I must have hit a sore subject for all the replies bashing me for saying older equipment is more dangerous. I am not saying to go buy all new stuff. I am saying to try and not use the old stuff if you have some thing better for a dangerous job. Just do not take unneeded risks.

I have a 80 year old neighbor that just LOVES JD two cylinders. HE goes and gets one of them to mow his pasture every year. The "flat" ground in his pasture is a 7% slope with the steep stuff getting to where the cows walk around it not up the hills. HE has a SHED FULL of newer equipment that have roll guards and cabs with seat belts. HE insists on using OLD tractors to do this job. He can barely walk on level ground so him "jumping" off a flipping tractor is never going to happen either.

Another one just happened early this summer. Fellow decided to use his 8N Ford with a rear dump scraper to clean out a dirt filled pond. He worked on it for two weeks. Bragging about it in the coffee shop. How he was reliving his youth growing up on that 8N Ford. He got it almost done and was shaping the banks. Flipped the tractor over backwards, Killed instantly. Now the bad and stupid parts. His 14 year old grand son found him. That is a great thing to "gift" your grand child with. That's the sad part. Now the stupid part. His main business was dirt excavation. HE owned several Cat crawlers, plus 2-3 tracked excavators. Him wanting to "relive" his youth killed him at 58 years old.

Someone talked about how we talk about farm tractor accidents but not car deaths. Well there are a lot more car deaths than tractors one BUTTTTT There are millions of more car drivers than farmers. If you look at the death per thousands of miles driven the death rate has dropped to record low levels. This is due to increased seat belt use, air bags, vehicles that collapse to absorb the impacts and etc. I have been in two car wrecks in my life that I would have been killed in if they did not have seat belts and air bags.


So even a ten or 20 year old car is still way safer than a 1950-60s one. Guess what!!!! A 10-20 year old tractor is safer than a 50 year old one too.

Another radical idea!!! Hire something done if you really do not have the equipment to do safely. A few hundred or thousand dollars is cheap when compared to your life or serious injuries.

Guys I am not bashing old tractors. I own them too. I love running them too. I just am saying think safety!!!! Also think of the reality of our aging bodies. ME running from a cow is not much of a foot race anymore. LOL
 
The big difference you miss on car vs tractor operation is no one can control what other drivers will do on the road but a tractor operator in a field has 100% control over how their
tractor and equipment is operated.It looks like tractor accidents are like drugs these days everyone wants to blame everything and everybody involved except the person that is ultimately
responsible and that is the end user.
 
Half of what makes the old experienced guys so careful running their equipment is they got to see first hand a brother or a buddy get mangled in a farm accident. That tends to stick with you. We don't have big enough families on farms now to get a safety education that way.
 
I'd say that is not true at all,being careful is a learned thing mostly from parents,relatives etc and so is being careless.I've known guys that have been butchered up by equipment several times they didn't even learn from their own experiences.
 
I don't know how it's become such an obsession that everything has to have safety equipment to protect you. Safety comes from you being careful with what you are doing. All this safety equipment is doing is making people stupid. It has gotten to the point where people expect the equipment they are using to not hurt you. When you get complacent that is when the things you work with bite you.
 
I don't know. I read very few news reports of younger guys getting hurt. These parts any way when a farm fatality is in the paper it is either the Amish killing one of their kids, or an old fart that flipped his tractor or fed himself into the equipment. Experience breeds complacency, complacency breeds accidents
 
When I was growing up on the farm we always used one of the smaller tractors to run the bale elevator. Now we have a JD 4600 which would work great for that, but how do you run the pto with no one in the seat, other than putting a sand bag in it. I don't believe in disabling safety features like so many do, then you are liable for any accident.
 
(quoted from post at 11:13:57 09/24/18) That's true, much like the death penalty it doesn't work as a deterrent for lots of folks.

It would deter a whole lot more (for all crimes) if the punishment was not hidden behind concrete block country clubs.
 
(quoted from post at 09:44:59 09/24/18) I don't know how it's become such an obsession that everything has to have safety equipment to protect you. Safety comes from you being careful with what you are doing. All this safety equipment is doing is making people stupid. It has gotten to the point where people expect the equipment they are using to not hurt you. When you get complacent that is when the things you work with bite you.
I believe we all want to protect ourselves and others from injury and possible death. But in the obsession is it protecting our safety or against being sued? I believe the latter! I agree the modern safety features are just more dumbing down our society. Many safeguards prevent the use of equipment as originally designed. Many users circumvent the safeties to maximize it's efficiency. There are many good safety features some of which are on our old tractors. All equipment old and new can fail even the safeties and like you stated they can bite you.
Nothing can replace experience and understanding. Like Traditional Farmer stated "being careful is a learned thing mostly from parents,relatives etc and so is being careless.".
My experiences came from both sides of that spectrum. So I witnessed good and bad, thankfully the good has been my guide.

If I'm being honest about this I take many more risks on my newest tractor because it's more dependable, safer with 4 wheel drive put it places it should't go. Try to overload it, pick and push stuff that it shouldn't. Lesson there is I respect the 65-70 year old tractors limits more than I do the 10 year old one. If I let my best safety feature fail (common sense) then I will get bit.
I've always tried to teach others to know your and your equipment's limits and don't push it.
 
Below is a ten-page report on workplace accidental deaths ..... a LOT of reading and a LOT of studying to really get a good picture of what the data really means. But worthwhile reading, maybe not today if you're busy but later on when winter sets in and you have some time. Quite interesting actually and farm worker stats are in there as well ..... on the very last page it shows a state by state comparison of incidents and rates, etc.
Untitled URL Link
 
Very astute observation that when we get older we think through performing chores that may hurt us before plunging ahead. When we are young we think we are immortal, so we have a "devil may care" attitude.
 
Randy, wasn't it you that told about the young wife that took a grain cart back home & wanting to help out, started unloading, and got hung up in the pto? They found her later, the pto still turning with her in it. That image has been stuck in my brain.....still gives me cold chills just thinking about it. Farms and the equipment are dangerous. In all my years, I've had several close calls, but by the grace of God, nothing serious.
 

Some very good points being made here. Obviously we all want to be safe, and we want everyone else to be safe as well. Guards and shields were made for a reason and should be used whenever possible.

However, as has also been stated, there is NO substitute for good old common sense. For quite a few years I ran a John Deere 50 with a no. 5 mower that had an open PTO shaft. No place on the mower to connect a shield, so I ran it without one. That unit was 100% safe. You know why? Because I followed two basic rules:
1. Whenever I was running it, NO ONE else was allowed to ride along, or be anywhere near it, under ANY circumstances!
2. NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, did I leave the seat of that tractor unless the PTO was disengaged! NO EXCEPTIONS!!
As long as those rules are followed no one will have any problems. This is not rocket science.

By the way, the no. 5 mower I have now DOES have a shield, and it is in place. And I STILL follow those two rules, without exception.
 
I remember going with my Father to visit a man that had done some work for us in the mid/late 1950s. My Father owed the man some money and preferred to pay debts in person.

Upon arrival, the man hobbled out of his house, obviously injured and in pain. When my Father asked him what had happened, the may pulled up the legs of his overalls to show severe injuries covered with Mercurochrome. Nothing broken but severe skin/muscle damage. That image has stayed with me to this day. Though it took some time, he recovered completely or nearly completely. He was probably in his mid/late 50s.

The man was a full time farmer and had no health insurance. He had not gone to the doctor to avoid the expense. I guess he figured that he could survive it. Rather, his wife had gone to the local Rx to buy Mercurochrome and bandages.

I remember him telling my Father that he had set his Farmall M up to run something from the PTO. I cannot remember if it was an elevator, saw, grinder or something else.

He was behind the tractor near the PTO shaft inspecting the set-up when the leg of his overalls became caught in the PTO shaft. Fortunately, his adult son was in the seat of the M, preparing to adjust, throttle, etc. He was able to quickly shut it down when he heard his father's scream.

The man told my Father that, had his son not been on the tractor and paying attention, "it would have wrapped me up and killed me."

In the day, there were no PTO shaft guards. Such was routine.

Morale: The man realized that he had made a mistake. He assumed responsibility. He did not go to the doctor to avoid the expense. His wife went to the closest Rx to buy Mercurochrome and bandages. He lost much of the season but eventually recovered.

HE NEVER CONSIDERED CALLING A LAWYER.

This is one of the fundamental differences between then and now.

Dean
 
Interesting story Dean ..... Mercurochrome was the go-to antiseptic back when I was a young lad in the early 50's ..... any kind of a cut or abrasion then mom got out the little bottle with a glass rod applicator attached to the rubber lid. By the sound of this info below, sounds like it's not around anymore much .....

Mercurochrome A proprietary formulation of merbromin, which was once popular as a topical antiseptic. Mercurochrome was deemed ineffective for that purpose and removed from the US market in 1998; it continues to be widely used in other countries.
 
Ya,it was a load of ear corn. I had blocked that one right out of my mind. I was thinking of Charlie who lost a leg the same way.
 

My Mother was a WWII US Army Nurse in the South Pacific.

When small, I remember her small steel Army first aid kit kept in the kitchen cabinet for small wounds. Inside were bandages, gauze, cotton, tape, and a small glass bottle of Mercurochrome including cap with glass applicator.

I well remember the stains from the Mercurochrome.

I remember her throwing it out after reading an article in the paper sometime in the late 1950s/early 1960s stating that Mercurochrome was ineffective.

Dean
 
If he had gone to the doctor the bill might have been $500, not $200,000. Big difference. Big medicine has changed a lot of things.
 

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