(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Lead Acid Battery sitting on concrete?

I

IaLeo

Well-known Member
Noticed that I sat the lead acid battery on the floor while on the charger over winter. This is a sealed unit for a small push mower.

Then I recalled stories that you should never sit car/tractor batteries on concrete because of some discharging action.

Is this an old urban legend or is it a no-no? Leo
 
(quoted from post at 11:15:49 05/23/18) Noticed that I sat the lead acid battery on the floor while on the charger over winter. This is a sealed unit for a small push mower.

Then I recalled stories that you should never sit car/tractor batteries on concrete because of some discharging action.

Is this an old urban legend or is it a no-no? Leo
Click to expand...
n all modern/most of past times, it holds no water. Long, long ago, when battery cases were made of wood, it did have some validity in the exterior of wood case could stay moist & due to porosity of wood, a discharge conduction path could drain the battery.
 
Back when batteries came in a wood case, yep. Not so much any more. I
still don't do, but old habits die hard when they are drilled in to
you by previous generations. Wood case, cement could sweat under
battery and rot the case. Lead to leaking and if the wood got wet,
discharge.
 
(quoted from post at 11:37:45 05/23/18) I am 55 years old and I have never heard
that at one time batteries had wood cases.
Learn something new everyday!
Click to expand...
oungun! :)
 
I don't think there is any validity to it now with modern plastic battery cases.

But it can cause damage to the concrete.

There is a permanent etched square in my garage floor where the previous owner must have sat a leaking or over charging battery and the acid ate into the floor.
 
Older battery?s with hard rubber cases this would be true. Some minute seepage would occur causing a direct current to the floor, draining the
battery. The newer plastic cased batteries this is not a problem because seepage cannot happen. In fact battery companies say it is better now
to store a battery on a cool cement floor because it would hold its charge longer.
 
I?ve always sat mine on a block of wood to charge, just
because that?s the way my Dad said to charge them, he
always said never leave sitting on concrete, guess I?ll continue
doing so just because his generation did
 
(quoted from post at 12:51:24 05/23/18). Some minute seepage would occur causing a direct current to the floor, draining the
battery.
Click to expand...

So howcome they could sit for extended periods in a battery box with a steel bottom and (hopefully) not discharge???
 
(quoted from post at 14:11:21 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 12:51:24 05/23/18). Some minute seepage would occur causing a direct current to the floor, draining the
battery.
Click to expand...

So howcome they could sit for extended periods in a battery box with a steel bottom and (hopefully) not discharge???
Click to expand...
on't ya know, Bob, I think it has to do with English terminology....something about 'Earthing the current' or some such thing. :twisted:
 
(quoted from post at 13:42:33 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 14:11:21 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 12:51:24 05/23/18). Some minute seepage would occur causing a direct current to the floor, draining the
battery.
Click to expand...

So howcome they could sit for extended periods in a battery box with a steel bottom and (hopefully) not discharge???
Click to expand...
on't ya know, Bob, I think it has to do with English terminology....something about 'Earthing the current' or some such thing. :twisted:
Click to expand...

Probably has more to do with "somehow runs voltage to ground"! ;-)
 
This is something like ghost stories; I do not believe in ghosts, but hope I never see one. I just place them on cardboard or a board, although a do not believe placing on concrete will discharge one
 
(quoted from post at 14:09:09 05/23/18) I?ve always sat mine on a block of wood to charge, just
because that?s the way my Dad said to charge them, he
always said never leave sitting on concrete, guess I?ll continue
doing so just because his generation did
Click to expand...

Not only do I do it but I taught my now grown kid too. I guess it's honor thy father! I glad he could learn something from me, right or wrong :roll: :roll:
 
(quoted from post at 14:50:30 05/23/18) This is something like ghost stories; I do not believe in ghosts, but hope I never see one. I just place them on cardboard or a board, although a do not believe placing on concrete will discharge one
Click to expand...
walk under ladders, cross the paths of black cats, step on sidewalk cracks, and buy new batteries on sale and store them on concrete until I need them.
 
Sarcasm: yeah, it'll
discharge it and change
polarity, oh my!! Unless
it's leaking out the top and
down to the floor, it'll be
fine!!
 
Up here north of the 49th, if you leave your battery on a concrete floor it will actually charge up and be
better than ever. We charge batteries that way up here, just leave 'em on the garage floor. It has
something to do with the Northern Lights which apparently have traces of Kryptonite floating around.
 
The oldest batteries for cars,and this is back in the early 50s and older they were a type of heavy asphalt like material. You could actually rebuild the stupid things with a kit! Don't ever even think of dropping one of those. Tops were sealed with something like roofing tar. Those of you with model "T" cars know all about those buzz box ignitions. Those are little wood boxes. There is a guy at Hershey car show in the fall who has fully rebuilt them. "Coil Doctor" He melts out the tar, puts a big new capacitor in and new American made breaker points. He has a tester to demo them. Holey cow are those things ever hot! Huge spark. Now the original Edison batteries for commercial use were made out of glass. Heavy as all thunder. Lots of those railroad crossing signals had them. Twenty or thirty years and they were still good. Just top them off with distilled water now and then.
 
Hello bob,

I thought you knew that one. The tires insulate them, so no current can flow to
ground! HE! HE!

Guido.
 
Hello IaLeo,

This will go viral! If the battery was on a tender then all is well. But I bet
the little charger got a work out with all those electrons going to ground, HE!
HE!

Guido.
 
The battery shop where I picked up batteries. Told me that was true of the old batteries before the plastic case came along. If a
battery is not clean that can also cause a problem.
 
(quoted from post at 17:37:01 05/23/18) The oldest batteries for cars,and this is back in the early 50s and older they were a type of heavy asphalt like material. You could actually rebuild the stupid things with a kit! Don't ever even think of dropping one of those. Tops were sealed with something like roofing tar. Those of you with model "T" cars know all about those buzz box ignitions. Those are little wood boxes. There is a guy at Hershey car show in the fall who has fully rebuilt them. "Coil Doctor" He melts out the tar, puts a big new capacitor in and new American made breaker points. He has a tester to demo them. Holey cow are those things ever hot! Huge spark. Now the original Edison batteries for commercial use were made out of glass. Heavy as all thunder. Lots of those railroad crossing signals had them. Twenty or thirty years and they were still good. Just top them off with distilled water now and then.
Click to expand...
y 1923 Ford Model T parts book lists battery box ($1.75), plates (+ & -), plate separators, cell connectors, etc. so that one could rebuilt their batteries.
 

Well, I have to go with B&D on this one. I remember it coming up a few years back, and the explanation was that it has nothing to do with the concrete itself, just the temperature. The battery will be cooler sitting on the concrete than sitting on a shelf, so when the warm humid air comes along moisture condenses on the battery and is absorbed by the dust and crud on the top and there you have a good pathway for a current leak.
 
(quoted from post at 14:46:55 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 13:42:33 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 14:11:21 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 12:51:24 05/23/18). Some minute seepage would occur causing a direct current to the floor, draining the
battery.
Click to expand...

So howcome they could sit for extended periods in a battery box with a steel bottom and (hopefully) not discharge???
Click to expand...
on't ya know, Bob, I think it has to do with English terminology....something about 'Earthing the current' or some such thing. :twisted:
Click to expand...

Probably has more to do with "somehow runs voltage to ground"! ;-)
Click to expand...
I had SO hoped to forget I had ever read that terminology.
 
I agree with the idea that it was more important with the old style battery case, before plastic. Recently a friend and I were discussing
this subject and once they had a battery that was always loosing charge, when it was sitting on a steel plate there was a voltage reading
between the post and the steel plate. It had enough of a leak that it would discharge to the battery box. I have always put a piece of
rubber under my batteries whenever possible.
 
(quoted from post at 18:55:36 05/23/18)
Well, I have to go with B&D on this one. I remember it coming up a few years back, and the explanation was that it has nothing to do with the concrete itself, just the temperature. The battery will be cooler sitting on the concrete than sitting on a shelf, so when the warm humid air comes along moisture condenses on the battery and is absorbed by the dust and crud on the top and there you have a good pathway for a current leak.
Click to expand...

SO... a wood shelf is good, a steel shelf would then be BAD.... Concrete would be warmer due to contact with ground than the steel shelf??

I am not convinced of that one either. The battery on concrete was debunked years ago, but like all wives tails, it refuses to go away.
 
They had wood cases to protect and organize the GLASS battery cell cases. Early batteries were built that way, a 3 cell wood box with glass battery cells installed.
 
Because that steel battery box weights what ? 10 pounds and heats up to air temp pretty quick, while 20 tons of concrete set in cool ground, not so much.
 
I set mine on wood just in case it boils when charging and I do not like the white stains on the floor.
 
(quoted from post at 23:07:52 05/23/18) They had wood cases to protect and organize the GLASS battery cell cases. Early batteries were built that way, a 3 cell wood box with glass battery cells installed.
Click to expand...
o glass in Model T batteries, but most of this discussion is irrelevant, as modern day batteries are perfectly fine sitting on concrete. No one can prove otherwise, so it is just conjecture, whereas I have much experience showing that this concrete crap is exactly that for modern batteries. Don't keep feeding the myth. End of story!
 
(quoted from post at 19:27:43 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 18:55:36 05/23/18)
Well, I have to go with B&D on this one. I remember it coming up a few years back, and the explanation was that it has nothing to do with the concrete itself, just the temperature. The battery will be cooler sitting on the concrete than sitting on a shelf, so when the warm humid air comes along moisture condenses on the battery and is absorbed by the dust and crud on the top and there you have a good pathway for a current leak.
Click to expand...

SO... a wood shelf is good, a steel shelf would then be BAD.... Concrete would be warmer due to contact with ground than the steel shelf??

I am not convinced of that one either. The battery on concrete was debunked years ago, but

like all wives tails, it refuses to go away.
Click to expand...


Maybe in Texas the ground is warmer. Here in the north the ground freezes in the winter and for the most part stays cooler in the spring summer and fall. Maybe in Texas there is never any moisture to condense on cool surfaces but here in the north moisture condenses out of the air onto cooler surfaces pretty much every evening. Less so indoors but still very much when a warm moist air mass comes through. Sorry, just simple weather and physics, and neither is going away anytime soon. :)
 
(quoted from post at 06:19:33 05/24/18)
(quoted from post at 19:27:43 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 18:55:36 05/23/18)
Well, I have to go with B&D on this one. I remember it coming up a few years back, and the explanation was that it has nothing to do with the concrete itself, just the temperature. The battery will be cooler sitting on the concrete than sitting on a shelf, so when the warm humid air comes along moisture condenses on the battery and is absorbed by the dust and crud on the top and there you have a good pathway for a current leak.
Click to expand...

SO... a wood shelf is good, a steel shelf would then be BAD.... Concrete would be warmer due to contact with ground than the steel shelf??

I am not convinced of that one either. The battery on concrete was debunked years ago, but

like all wives tails, it refuses to go away.
Click to expand...


Maybe in Texas the ground is warmer. Here in the north the ground freezes in the winter and for the most part stays cooler in the spring summer and fall. Maybe in Texas there is never any moisture to condense on cool surfaces but here in the north moisture condenses out of the air onto cooler surfaces pretty much every evening. Less so indoors but still very much when a warm moist air mass comes through. Sorry, just simple weather and physics, and neither is going away anytime soon. :)
Click to expand...


Just having problem of the physics of a steel shelf not transferring heat faster than concrete floor. Do your shelves stay somehow warmer in an unheated barn???? Ground temps tend to slowly change and hold those temps,, shelf temps will go with ambient air, especially steel. So temp bounce will be all over the place on a shelf with the weather, where the concrete will slowly change? Am I missing something?? OR do all the heatpumps and ground systems not work? No argument about colder in winter and warmer in summer. And the heat transfer of concrete vrs steel? Guess we will agree to disagree. As battery cases were improved, there is no leakage from the case material, otherwise sitting on steel battery boxes would drain them even faster, as the tv program pointed out. Ground temps change slower than shelf temps. Contaminants on the surface of the battery between the posts can cause leakage. So if your concerned about temperature cycles, the ground, and a concrete slab is usually slower than a shelf, especially a metal shelf.
 
(quoted from post at 08:06:24 05/24/18)
(quoted from post at 06:19:33 05/24/18)
(quoted from post at 19:27:43 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 18:55:36 05/23/18)
Well, I have to go with B&D on this one. I remember it coming up a few years back, and the explanation was that it has nothing to do with the concrete itself, just the temperature. The battery will be cooler sitting on the concrete than sitting on a shelf, so when the warm humid air comes along moisture condenses on the battery and is absorbed by the dust and crud on the top and there you have a good pathway for a current leak.
Click to expand...

SO... a wood shelf is good, a steel shelf would then be BAD.... Concrete would be warmer due to contact with ground than the steel shelf??

I am not convinced of that one either. The battery on concrete was debunked years ago, but

like all wives tails, it refuses to go away.
Click to expand...


Maybe in Texas the ground is warmer. Here in the north the ground freezes in the winter and for the most part stays cooler in the spring summer and fall. Maybe in Texas there is never any moisture to condense on cool surfaces but here in the north moisture condenses out of the air onto cooler surfaces pretty much every evening. Less so indoors but still very much when a warm moist air mass comes through. Sorry, just simple weather and physics, and neither is going away anytime soon. :)
Click to expand...


Just having problem of the physics of a steel shelf not transferring heat faster than concrete floor. Do your shelves stay somehow warmer in an unheated barn???? Ground temps tend to slowly change and hold those temps,, shelf temps will go with ambient air, especially steel. So temp bounce will be all over the place on a shelf with the weather, where the concrete will slowly change? Am I missing something?? OR do all the heatpumps and ground systems not work? No argument about colder in winter and warmer in summer. And the heat transfer of concrete vrs steel? Guess we will agree to disagree. As battery cases were improved, there is no leakage from the case material, otherwise sitting on steel battery boxes would drain them even faster, as the tv program pointed out. Ground temps change slower than shelf temps. Contaminants on the surface of the battery between the posts can cause leakage. So if your concerned about temperature cycles, the ground, and a concrete slab is usually slower than a shelf, especially a metal shelf.
Click to expand...

Bill, it takes thermal mass to make any amount of heat transfer from one object to another. So if you have a steel shelf that is say 1/4 inch or more thick and of some fairly large area, absolutely it will suck heat out of a battery and moisture will condense on it. I have never seen a steel shelf thicker than maybe 18 gauge. Yes, it will suck a couple BTUs out of the battery but in a minute thermal equilibrium is reached and virtually no more heat will leave. The concrete floor on the other hand will not pull as fast as steel but it will keep pulling 24-7 week after week. but after a day or two the battery temp will be much lower than when it was set there and subject to condensation. A place that I used to work had a forklift operator hurt fairly badly when he approached an open dock going to fast when humidity was high. He hit the brake but slid on the condensation right off the dock.
 
(quoted from post at 17:41:55 05/24/18)
(quoted from post at 08:06:24 05/24/18)
(quoted from post at 06:19:33 05/24/18)
(quoted from post at 19:27:43 05/23/18)
(quoted from post at 18:55:36 05/23/18)
Well, I have to go with B&D on this one. I remember it coming up a few years back, and the explanation was that it has nothing to do with the concrete itself, just the temperature. The battery will be cooler sitting on the concrete than sitting on a shelf, so when the warm humid air comes along moisture condenses on the battery and is absorbed by the dust and crud on the top and there you have a good pathway for a current leak.
Click to expand...

SO... a wood shelf is good, a steel shelf would then be BAD.... Concrete would be warmer due to contact with ground than the steel shelf??

I am not convinced of that one either. The battery on concrete was debunked years ago, but

like all wives tails, it refuses to go away.
Click to expand...


Maybe in Texas the ground is warmer. Here in the north the ground freezes in the winter and for the most part stays cooler in the spring summer and fall. Maybe in Texas there is never any moisture to condense on cool surfaces but here in the north moisture condenses out of the air onto cooler surfaces pretty much every evening. Less so indoors but still very much when a warm moist air mass comes through. Sorry, just simple weather and physics, and neither is going away anytime soon. :)
Click to expand...


Just having problem of the physics of a steel shelf not transferring heat faster than concrete floor. Do your shelves stay somehow warmer in an unheated barn???? Ground temps tend to slowly change and hold those temps,, shelf temps will go with ambient air, especially steel. So temp bounce will be all over the place on a shelf with the weather, where the concrete will slowly change? Am I missing something?? OR do all the heatpumps and ground systems not work? No argument about colder in winter and warmer in summer. And the heat transfer of concrete vrs steel? Guess we will agree to disagree. As battery cases were improved, there is no leakage from the case material, otherwise sitting on steel battery boxes would drain them even faster, as the tv program pointed out. Ground temps change slower than shelf temps. Contaminants on the surface of the battery between the posts can cause leakage. So if your concerned about temperature cycles, the ground, and a concrete slab is usually slower than a shelf, especially a metal shelf.
Click to expand...

Bill, it takes thermal mass to make any amount of heat transfer from one object to another. So if you have a steel shelf that is say 1/4 inch or more thick and of some fairly large area, absolutely it will suck heat out of a battery and moisture will condense on it. I have never seen a steel shelf thicker than maybe 18 gauge. Yes, it will suck a couple BTUs out of the battery but in a minute thermal equilibrium is reached and virtually no more heat will leave. The concrete floor on the other hand will not pull as fast as steel but it will keep pulling 24-7 week after week. but after a day or two the battery temp will be much lower than when it was set there and subject to condensation. A place that I used to work had a forklift operator hurt fairly badly when he approached an open dock going to fast when humidity was high. He hit the brake but slid on the condensation right off the dock.
Click to expand...
we gonna have to agree to disagree. The steel shelf will pull 24/7 also. The steel shelf will go to ambiant really quick. The concrete very very slowly and due to contact with the ground, will be be much slower to drop and much slower to rise. Again, we will agree to disagree.
 
Someone might take the task of summarizing all these comments and put them out as a "Wikipedia". As the saying goes, "It's on the internet so it has to be right!"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Anyone tired of replacing tractor/vehicle/mower batterie
Replies
2
Views
476
Derweibhai
D
U
Battery acid slushy?
Replies
16
Views
3K
guido
guido
I
Elec Club Car Gold Cart-rather long
Replies
9
Views
718
Britman
B
L
Battery Cable sizing... placing a bet
Replies
17
Views
1K
HFJ
H
S
Battery Charging Question
Replies
5
Views
1K
Mule Meat
Mule Meat
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top