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Hi octane gas for the antique CASE

G

Greenfrog

Member
Local mechanic at implement dealer said to use aviation gas (100 octane) in the old CASE SC to make it start easier. However, this is high priced and not as handy to get.
I suppose one could use premium gas at 91 or 92 octane. Or, how about a can of octane boost ( whatever this stuff is) to the tank.
Would this be of any advantage?
Any comments on this?
 
just a waste of money, tractor was not built to run on high octane fuel, not enough compression to burn efficiently...
 
I think it's a general consensus on here that most old tractors will start and run just fine on regular E-10, I know our Farmall C does. I add a little diesel to the gas, to reduce the possibility of corrosion in the tank, and that probably lowers the octane a little. I think a knowledgeable person stated on here recently that an engine will start easier on lower octane gas, and the theory made sense, premium fuels have an additive to reduce knock, which is premature ignition, and that would make an engine start harder.
 
No advantage whatsoever to running av gas or high octane.

Save your money, invest it in solving the starting problem.
 
My dc starts and runs great on regular 87 octane gas. The higher the octane burns cooler making it harder to start and produces less power.
 
The higher the octane the lower the flash point, generally used in high compression engines where an 87 octane fuel would pre-ignite or "diesel" (ignite from pressure not spark). Save your money, 87 is just fine.
 
Most old tractors were designed for rather low compression, low octaine gas.

No point to using av gas.

Some folks don't like ethanol. Most of us it works as good as or better than pure gas, which has gotten poorer in quality the past decade. Most gas is refined to poorer standards these days, then blended with ethanol to bring back up to spec.

Paul
 
DO not go back to that guy. As noted, the higher the octane, the harder it is to ignite. The "high test" gasoline has less actual power in it in BTUs per unit of fuel than 87 octane regular gasoline. The reduced Knock quality allows higher compression ratios, the compression boost increases the power per unit fuel. jim
 
I disagree with everyone in this post (respectfully) except the mechanic. the reason to use av-gas or racing fuel isn't for the octane; it's because it doesn't go bad near as quickly. same advice is given to guys with generators or anything that sits over 3 months without running. At the very least i'd run premium gas. do not use oct boost or any product to extend the life of the gas like stabil. speaking from 100% experience. I won't even use reg gas to mix up 2cycle chain saw gas; it goes bad within 60days!
 
If high octane fuel made engines start easier, they wouldn't use 87 octane pump fuel in the squirt can to start 10,000hp funny car drag engines. I would theorize that, depending on your stock compression ratio, it may not start at all on higher octane fuel. These old tractors were built to burn spotty octane, low quality fuel by today's standards. My Super 55 manual states it is a "modern high compression engine and requires minimum of 86 octane fuel". I believe it is 7 to 1 on it that they call high compression.
 
I would (possibly) use no-alcohol gas if it is available in your area.
The only serious advantage to using av-gas would be if somebody put some really high compression pistons in your old tractor, which I seriously doubt.
If the tractor is started somewhat regularly, your regular unleaded gas should be fine.
 
Avgas has a higher heat of evaporation (I think I got that right) so it won't "boil" as easily at higher altitude. That makes it much harder starting particularly in colder weather. Been there with my plane.
 
I think the idea that pump gas goes bad in 90 days is hogwash, I have zero issues with leaving gas in tractors over the winter.
 
So why did a "mechanic" tell him to buy "Aviation fuel" when you can get Stabile that will make gas last for years from the local Wal-Mart?
 
My advice would be to find a new and better mechanic. I'm real curious to hear him explain how it will start easier.
 
You could tell the mechanic you couldn?t find any AV Gas so filled it up with Jet A-1 and is running better than ever. See if he passes that on to others as well. We run AV Gas in our tug powered by an old 4 cylinder Chrysler that we drain from aircraft when working on their fuel systems, have for decades. There is no discernible difference between regular 87 octane and AV Gas except in the winter if the tug is left outside it?s a hard starter unless it?s full of 87. Every so often someone will come looking for AV Gas because they?ve been fed the old wives tale about it being beneficial for old tractors and small equipment, so we warn them, then sell it with a smile and tell them to come back and say how well it worked. Nobody has ever come back for seconds.
 
If your tractor ztarts hard, the first thing I would do would be to make sure your spark plugs, wires and, mag are in top condition. Check your carb and manifold gaskets. Also make sure it has decent compression. With all these in good condition, that tractor should not start hard. Ive used regular non ethanol gas for years andput some primrose fuel additive. Ive had tractors set for a couple years and start with no problems. Just started my old geezers for the first time today since last fall. 4 pulls on the cranks and all Olivers were running. Allis and oliver with electric start, just a couple seconds of cranking. The 27 D john deere tpok about 10 pulls on the flywheel to start and then it bit me. 15 stitches worth. They will start if everything is in good condition.
 
David this thing is beat to beat here ever so often. Last count we had around 24 gas hand held or small air cooled engines here on the farm. I won,t make the statement no problems but sometimes we will have something like a trac vac or something that is not used on a regular basis. Sta-bil and regular gas. Sometimes if I pick up a saw that I know has not been used in awhile I might dump the gas but most times just pull the cord. This thing about gas going bad in 60 days must be a local thing or something, just does not happen here on this farm.
 
If your going to run the tractor a fair amount regular gas is fine. If it will set for weeks or months then the alcohol in it will settle out. the alcohol goes to the bottom and attracts moisture. Very hard on tanks.I lost my 200gal storage tank to total grit in the bottom. Filter didn't even take it all out. I recently started a wd ac that had set a few months. You could see the alcohol in the bottom of sediment bowl. I'm going to go to our new Casey's store and get alcohol free 91octane for all low usage engines.Just my two cents based on school of hard knocks.
 
Agree with all the others. C/R of any old tractor does not need or run better with av-gas. It's more stable, but you can do that job with a fuel additive from the local boat shop.

hard starting is usually points, coil, ballast, or timing related. Check ignition stuff before messing with fuel side.
 
In 1962,the average octanes of gas was 93 for regular gas,99 for premium and 102 octane for super premium....so 93 octane was the lowest. 87 octane...not in my old gas tractors.

Keith
 
Another myth on here.

Higher octane does not burn cooler, it only resists the desire to explode versus burn.
 
Thanks to all who replied here. Good discussion. You educated me. Yes one of the reasons I failed to mention was that the aviation fuel Is more stable. However, I thought too that Sta-bil or Sea foam does the same thing. I?ll just continue doing as I was. Yes, old tractor has new plugs, points, ., cond., wires, coil, etc... carb has been cleaned and rebuilt.
I did just today replace the manifold gasket. It did seem to start a bit better. Old gasket what?s leaking and found to be in bad shape.
Again, thanks for the info.
 
I use 87 octane with 10% ethanol in my 101 Massey Harris pulling tractor....It sat in the shed for 6 months and started right up this spring...At the first pull of the year it got two 3rd places and ran great..
a266574.jpg
 
Case tractors do not like Champion plugs. My dc has fits if I try them. I've never had problems with other brands, but moist case guys will tell you to stay away from champions.
 
Rohdog, I just do not see the problems every one is talking about.. Just this weak I cranked a 40 year old Galion grader that has a ih gas engine. I know it has not been started of fuel added since the week of 4 July last year. Started and ran fine and this thing has been e=setting out in the field where sun hits the fuel tank. Like I said I guess gas may go bad but just not one of my big worries that is for sure. And back to this post I think the guy is wasting money to put high test gas in old tractors, but thing is it is his money, his tractor and he can do as he pleases.
 
High octane gas definitely will not start easier. The only reason I could see for av gas would be longer shelf life, but cost prohibitive. Despite all the things said about todays gas, my old Farmalls routinely sit from the first of November until the next May at the soonest, many times September without any issues and this is northern Indiana with every temp and humidity combination thrown in there. Old tractors with low compression should run just fine on the regular octane, HOWEVER, if it has the old cast iron pistons , they will hold more heat longer than aluminum pistons, and if you are working it hard , you may have detonation issues with 87 and may need 89 or 92, 93 octane under those circumstances, but for light use 87 should be fine. My 2 cents.
 
High octane gas burns slower and explodes with less force then low octane. How the heck is THAT supposed to make a tractor start better?
 
If the problem is shelf life of the gas, draining the fuel tank during the off season will reduce that problem. Use up the old gas in a fuel injected engine and get fresh gas at the start of each season.

Back when Stabil came out a friend with a small engine shop commented that Stabil was one of the best things to happen to his business. Guys stopped draining gas tanks before storage and just poured in a little Stable. The gas would still go bad and his service work for no-starts almost tripled.
 
That's the problem - pouring in a little Stabile.

I use 3X to 4X the recommended amount of Stabile if not more (its like beer, if a little is good a lot is better) and then start it to make sure the fuel in the carb is treated and not just the fuel in the tank. Never had a fuel issue with anything treated with Stabile - and all my gas is 10% ethanol. I just started my cheap Yamaha generator over the weekend to use for power on a shed we are building in the middle of nowhere. It took 8-9 pulls to get it fired up but then it hadn't been started since September and the fuel in it was over 2 years old. It ran for 4 hours without a hitch. I'll run the rest of the old fuel out this weekend and then put fresh gas in it and treat it again. Without power losses to ice storms it doesn't get used enough to even burn a tank of fuel a year in it.
 
(quoted from post at 17:01:51 05/01/18) I disagree with everyone in this post (respectfully) except the mechanic. the reason to use av-gas or racing fuel isn't for the octane; it's because it doesn't go bad near as quickly. same advice is given to guys with generators or anything that sits over 3 months without running. At the very least i'd run premium gas. do not use oct boost or any product to extend the life of the gas like stabil. speaking from 100% experience. I won't even use reg gas to mix up 2cycle chain saw gas; it goes bad within 60days!
Click to expand...

I agree.. the only reason to use...is it doesnt go bad as quickly and there is NO ethanol. Otherwise regular gas is fine.

We turn off the gas valve and run all gas engines dry, so the external_link gas will not goop up the carbs... on all of our ranch and farm machinery. We always turn off the gas on any pre 1965 tractor anyway as they tend to flood. By doing this, they will always start next time you need them. Weed eaters get the expensive gas in a can mixed so they also start every year. If you happen to live next to the airport, a gallon or two a year for your weed eater would be economical. For your tractors, not so much.
 
How long will gas last?

""""About 3- 5 months in a sealed container. 6-8 months with fuel stabilizer added. Recommended maximum storage 1 year. The API (American Petroleum Institute http://www.api.org/) recommends that gas is not stored for more than two years in an approved container without fuel stabilizer.""""

Gas will/may still burn after that but nearly as well, and the additives and main mixture will breakdown.
 
No octane booster. They cause carbon build-up. High test may store better . Regular treated with Stabil should be fine.
 
Great discussion here....
Sta-bil is mentioned here...
How about some other gas stabilizers such a SeaFoam and Startron?
Local law mower shop says startron is the best...lasts longer.
Comments?
 
(quoted from post at 15:39:26 05/01/18) I think the idea that pump gas goes bad in 90 days is hogwash, I have zero issues with leaving gas in tractors over the winter.
Click to expand...

David, what's over winter? Here on something like a boat it's about 6-8 months, lawn mower 6 months.

And yes, ethanol laced gas starts.....KEY WORD STARTS to go bad at about 90 days. Additives like stable will extend that to a point.

So here some people (especially those who buy gas from the cheapest source) have a lot of small engine and boat motor issues in the spring, mostly carb related.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 17:03:20 05/01/18) Local mechanic at implement dealer said to use aviation gas (100 octane) in the old CASE SC to make it start easier. However, this is high priced and not as handy to get.
I suppose one could use premium gas at 91 or 92 octane. Or, how about a can of octane boost ( whatever this stuff is) to the tank.
Would this be of any advantage?
Any comments on this?
Click to expand...

The case does not require the octane however the Aciation Fuel will not fun up the fuel system . So overall 100LL is a win.
 
When not using the equipment for who knows how long, it is a good idea to seal off the fuel tank.
Put a piece of visqueen under the fuel fill cap.
 

The way I understand it, the ethanol will eat away at any rubber hoses or washers.

Starting 5 years ago, I only run non-ethanol racing gas in my 2 stroke engines, have had zero fuel system problems since.
 
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