OT: Pole Barn In Stages?

Ken Christopherson · Apr 20, 2018

Hello all! Well, we are settling into our new home, and I am beginning to see how much (or how little) money we have left to play with. I have posted a few times, and have mentioned building a pole barn, have asked sizes or recommendations, etc. I would like to do most of the work myself, with the help of some friends... But lately, I have been thinking of doing this in stages. For example - This year my goal would be to get posts in the ground, trusses up, and roof skinned... Would there be any issues to doing this? I figure this would allow me to slowly work on closing in the structure as I get more money to do so. But, having poles up with a roof will also allow me to keep the tractors under some type of cover until it is fully completed.

I am looking at putting up something that is 32X56X12, which would allow for post spacing on 8' centers. At this point I am still unsure of truss spacing. Being in MN, we do get quite the snow loads here sometimes. Also, I wouldn't be getting concrete in it for some time. Any opinions are appreciated.

Bruce from Can. · Apr 20, 2018

Here in South Central Ontario we would get a very similar snow load, and a free standing structure, will require trusses on four foot spacing, with a 4/12 pitch. Lots of pole buildings around with roof covered only, and sides open , to be filled with big hay bales. The thing to keep in mind I believe is putting siding on helps to take the wiggle out of any structure. Each side wall will only take 672 sq feet of material,13.5 square of steel will cover both sides. So even at $100.00 a square for coloured steel, you aren?t looking at a lot of $$$ to cover both sides, $1,350.00 . I would try to find the money to sheet it over.

W_B · Apr 20, 2018

Your insurance company might not like an open sided structure or at best charge you more to insure it. They are more susceptible to wind damage. The wind can get in and push up on the roof and take a roof off from underneath. Yea, it happens all the time.

RayP(MI) · Apr 20, 2018

A pole barn depends on it's entire structure for it's structural integrity. When we put up ours, the whole structure was shaky until we got the roofing and side sheathing on. Here in Michigan, we chose 2' spacing on rafters with 5/8" sheathing under steel roofing. Plenty of cross bracing and spacers as well. We used 8' spacing on poles with 4' deep 2'dia concrete pillars. would not recommend trying to complete it in stages. Later stages tend not to be finished. Recommend you try for a finished building. Without sidewalls you really have very little protection for stuff stored inside.

504 · Apr 20, 2018

Pour a floor before you put up the walls, because it is a long way to haul concrete from the front to the back. I poured mine two years before I got the building up.

WGM · Apr 20, 2018

Truss construction and spacing is best left to the professionals.

2underage · Apr 20, 2018

I agree with Bruce. Once you have the girts and purlins installed the roofing and siding steel should be installed. The building will be much weaker and the roof subject to wind damage if you have no siding. The least costly and most necessary of the pole barn is the steel siding. Have it as tall as you can afford, 14-16 feet and make the garage door width at least 16 feet. Wider if the plan will allow as sure as rain a day will come when some equipment won't fit in.

john in la · Apr 20, 2018

What you are trying to do is what we call a pole barn.
If the sides are enclosed it is a building.
I guess these guys up north saying the sides must be covered have never seen a carport.
The only thing extra you have to do if you do not side it is install some bracing.

Mike M · Apr 20, 2018

I don't see why it won't work ? Just brace it good. If you tamp the post backfill in better yet. Builders around here don't tamp them in which is bad if they pour floor right away then you have settling around the posts which can't be good to support the floor.
I like to use overhead garage type doors as they seal up way better than sliders. I also like to pour a separate below frost line footer under the doors. This also allows you to come back at a later time and pour the concrete floor. I'm in Ohio and also installed insulation and liner panels in my last one. Made for a really nice building. IIRC my trusses are 2 foot on center and were to be made to handle adding the liner panels. They looked like normal trusses to me ? I'm not sure if I got what I paid a little extra for or not.

in-too-deep · Apr 20, 2018

Hi Ken! Yes you CAN build in stages.

Pretend you're building a "hay shed" or "pavilion". 8' pole and rafter spacing. Pole barn rafters are WAY heavier than regular garage or house 2' o.c. rafters. The roof purlins will be 2x4 installed on edge. There will be 2x6 angle braces from poles to rafters on both axis. Consult Menards.com pole barn packages for ideas. OR you can design your own with their design program online. It's really fun.

Later, you add your wall purlins and wall steel and doors/windows.

Lastly, any concrete guy worth his boots will rent a pump or conveyor to pour your floor inside the building.

The wind will not be an issue without walls. There are HUNDREDS of haysheds all across our state and region that don't tip over. Some of which are 18+ feet tall.

Good luck!

paul · Apr 20, 2018

A few things to consider.

The siding and the 2x the siding is hung on is part of what gives a building its integrity.

If you build a roof on poles, like a hay shed, no sides, you need a little stronger materials to start with. So the whole thing will cost you more.

Wind. A free roof catches a lot of wind, you moght need to strap the roof down a little better, might even need the poles anchored better. Again, takes a little more money for the details.

My 48x81 building has poles and trusses spaced at 9 feet. And I'm in Minnesota. It uses top quality wood, not the bent knotted stuff from the picked through standard pile at Menards. A designer can get the best bang for the buck with the many different designs and spacings possible. You need to match your spacing to your trusses.

To be honest, for a smaller shed like you propose, you might want to pour a foundation, use 2x6 and just build it conventionally, order trusses and set them up. You indicate you are on a budget, if you are doing the labor free this might pencil out the best.

When I built mine I did the electrical and 1/3 cement floor a year later. Don't wait longer than that. You will layer up the shed with so much stuff you won't want to move it all out to get the concrete in......

I would consider long and hard on getting it all built, the whole shell, right off. The poles (or 2x6) and trusses and roof is most of the money, all that's left is a little more tin and a few 2x nailers for the side tin..... and might be cheaper parts with the sidewalls part of the stiffening from the get go.

Paul

Roger Tomfohrde · Apr 20, 2018

Sounds like a good plan but make sure you can go eight foot with the posts. Local building inspector would not let me go over six. There is rule some of the areas will call it a garage and not for livestock. Make sure before you start. It took longer to get the permits and they required 18 inch holes with a foot of concrete in them and the inspector checked several times during building.

ss55 · Apr 20, 2018

You do see pole buildings that have additions added to the length of the building. Could you start with a 32x24 or 32x32 building and extend the length to 56 in the future? Another option would be to add a lean-to on one or both sides. The original structure should be designed to support your future expansion plans. Work out your options with your builder or supplier before placing an order.

Many concrete floors have been added after a building was built. Will a cement truck clear under a 12 foot high door or is 14 foot of clearance required?

ptfarmer · Apr 20, 2018

On my 24'x48" pole barn I got 3"x1/4" wall pipe on 12' centers around the perimeter. The trusses are also made from 3"x 1/4" wall pipe with 1 truss every 12' spanning 24' (2/12 pitch) with 2"x6"x24' purlin. My pole barn is all welded together with the sheet metal screwed on. If I had to do over again I would do the concrete first then put the barn up. If you put the barn up first, then when it come time for concrete you will be amazed as to how much stuff you have to move out of the barn.

JMS/.MN · Apr 20, 2018

Another option is build it all now, with available money and borrow the extra needed. Interest rates are low, and you"ll have use of the desired building while you make payments. Sometimes inflation is higher than interest rates, so future cost is higher than the interest you"re paying.

caterpillar guy · Apr 20, 2018

Why not just collect the materials as you can afford them then put up the building. The steel would protect the poles and trusses from rain while laying till you have it all then put it up. Or you could just start with shorter building and add to the end of it later like the next year. Could just leave the end open would be better than no building at all. Never will have one to high or to big.
I use old power line poles then get logs sawed for trusses,girts,and plates then put it all up. Saw logs all winter and pile and stick it then put it up the following year. I would like to saw a few 40 foot 2.5x16 planks for plates to make wide doorways with. Like a 30x18 door. Could then just drive combine with head in at night.

ed will · Apr 20, 2018

Hi I think you can have more than 8' space between posts depending on your header size. Are you building with purlins or trusses? Here we can space trusses max 3' o/c. My pole building has 10ft between poles with 3- 2?12 laminated together for headers with trusses on 2ft centers. Poles are on concrete columns with 3/8 x 2 1/2" flat bar poured into concrete on each side of pole. Bracing is 2 x 10. Ed Will Oliver BC

FinnMD · Apr 20, 2018

You can do it in stages. I built my pole barn like that many years ago. Did research on proper rafter size, spacing, etc from websites and books. I built a 32 x 34 barn all by myself, the only help I had was dad helped with setting the 6x6 posts. Hardest part for me was the layout of the site to make sure posts are all in proper position, using the 3,4,5 principle, and the old fashioned water level (clear tubing with water in it to establish relative elevations from post-to-post). Obviously I am not a builder or contractor, just figured it out and made my barn plan on graph paper and pencil with a big eraser. Tractor augered holes for posts, set concrete pad on bottom, when it dries put in post and concrete it again. I used siding of green (wet) oak from sawmill true 1" x 12". When green easy to nail and cut, when dry forget about it. Picture from about 15 years ago, and picture today. Good luck.

ss55 · Apr 20, 2018

Just a thought, when it becomes too difficult to remove all the stuff in the way to pour a concrete floor, you probably don't have much need for a concrete floor in those areas. Save the effort and the money for a full concrete floor until the building is emptied (if ever).

showcrop · Apr 20, 2018

I don't know where you are but here in NH the local building department has a lot to say about what you can do. I have built a small pole barn myself. It was a rafter roof similar to FinnMD's. I have also been involved with constructing a few truss types. One pretty big building we built the trusses ourselves on the deck, and put them up in place with no machine of any sort. On another one the trusses were manufactured but the crane was a pole in the bucket of a 580CK. I know that you can keep a roof on a building with no walls, but we all know that strong winds are getting much more common.

Blackhole49 · Apr 21, 2018

All I can say is brace the living heJJ out of it. That is an all-full lot of weight up their (especially in a cold climate), along with it being a big sail. You will be surprised how much the structure moves until it is completed.

Steven-Id · Apr 21, 2018

The first question is what are you wanting when done? Do you want a building that is dry inside or just something to keep the main weather off of things. I have never seen a pole barn that doesn't rain every two feet. The metal sweats and the water drips off of the purlins. If you build it with the insulation and vapor barrier right next to the metal you will be ok.
If you are wanting it use it as a shop and finish the ceiling inside I would recommend pricing out a concrete foundation and a conventional framed with trusses at two foot centers. It may actually pencil out cheaper in the long run. Good luck.

Steven

ptfarmer · Apr 21, 2018

This is my brothers, the center only has concrete. The barn is 70' wide x 80' long, five trusses.

Destroked 450 · Apr 22, 2018

As others have said, local building codes will effect what type of building you build and how it's built.
Here I can put up what I want on my farm as long as it's not for commercial or public use.

I've been working on my 28x72 tool shed/shop for a few years now doing most of the work myself as money is available.
(Like the old saying: my time, my dime)
1st year all post set, girts and top plates put on and bracing done.
2nd year truss installed with purlins and roof.
3rd year shop floor poured, siding installed on the back wall and on shop end.
Last year the rest of the out side metal was put on, shop doors built, shop insulated, and some wiring done.
This year I'll finish the wiring, install and insulate the celling finishing the original build.
Next will be adding the now planed 10x32 lean to on a portion of the back for storage.

atlarge54 · Apr 22, 2018

In 1985 I put up a 40x56 pole barn drywalled and insulated it was also plumbed and wired to be livable in case I lost my job. At the time it was not common practice to put foam insulation under the concrete---looking back no foam under concrete is my only regret. Also, I was a bit shocked how much the structure lacked stability until the inside walls were finished.

As far as the concrete question---the base is as important as the concrete. I see you live in a COLD climate, if water settles near your building ice will tend to heave things. Get the building up above grade if you can. When I built, the cost of the bare structure was $10,000 and I spent $900 on bank run sand for base. It really strained my budget but it was the best money I ever spent. I used 3/8 rebar on 2' centers with 6 bag limestone mix floor is about 5" thick and is in excellent shape today. If the ground under concrete is not stable your concrete will do "things".

Pops1532 · Apr 23, 2018

Where I live you can't build anything bigger than a garden shed without an engineer's stamp on the plans. You NEED to talk to your local building inspector before you spend any money.

Those that say you can build it without enclosing the walls, and those that say the roof could blow off are both right. With a pole barn you'll need to be concerned about wind and snow loads. With an open building you'll need to be concerned about wind and snow loads, and lift. This is where the engineer stamp comes into play because there are different criteria for each type of building.

I agree that if you can comfortably handle the payments the best option is to build the complete building now. The next best option would be to build a shorter length with the idea of adding onto the end of the building later.

BarnyardEngineering · Apr 23, 2018

Around here you hear about pole barn that's blown down because the sides weren't closed in, about once a year. Either the building was under construction or the owner was trying the "roof now, sides later" method and the building was not designed/braced for the wind.

Yes, there are carports, but they are DESIGNED to be open-sided. a pole barn is not.

Destroked 450 · Apr 23, 2018

Around here tool sheds with only one side open are the worst about getting the roofs blown off, especially if the wind hits the open side.
Several open sided pole barns around here for hay and feed barns, main thing is they have to be braced and the roof trusses properly secured for that app.

OT: Pole Barn In Stages?

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