Organic 'Fad' Grows

Traditional Farmer

Well-known Member
Location
Virginia
New Holland sends me a little magazine every so often,in the last issue there is an article about a Cancer Treatment Hospital in Arizona that has contracted with an organic grower to supply them
with fresh organic produce they say it aids in their cancer treatments and other overall health.The grower is actually using 25 acres next to the hospital to grow some of the produce.So much for the caricature of organic growers being a fringe bunch of old hippies.Anyway
a very interesting read if you have the magazine.
 
No brag just fact....have posted on this before. Had a neighbor give me some Organic Bananas. Lasted much longer than the regular DelMonte or Dole or other sources in the local stores and tasted better. So I decided to buy them when available. WW is the only store with them and when shopping there that's what I buy.

Now the question I can't answer is this: What's the difference between the growing/production/harvesting/whatever mechanisms for an Organic Banana VS a non-Organic Banana???????
 
Chances are it was the type of banana,, and not the Organic reason for them to last longer..
 
There is a lot of snake oil in cancer treatments. When they show scientific proof that it's anything more that propaganda I'll believe. I do believe that anything that makes cancer patients feel better, even if it's a placebo, is a good thing, so more power to them.
 
"...they say it aids in their cancer treatments and other overall health"

You're referring to this?
 
Read the article its explained a lot better than my condensed version,considering they are cancer treatment doctors I'd say their opinion would carry some authority.More than some person just pulling an opinion out of the air with no proof what so ever.
 
Is there some division in the ranks? What's this "Super Organic" stuff that I've been hearing about? Sounds like the small producers want to be differentiated from the BTO organics that the large food conglomerates need to keep them going with a steady and reliable supply. If it's grown to organic standards,what's the difference in how many acres a producer is farming? The "health advantages" should be the same.
 
And claims of miracle cures are common place, and frequently proven to be hoaxes. It's sad that that happens so frequently. I hope this one is right, but don't see science backing it up.
 
Cancer doctors have been promoting miracle cures since the beginning of doctors, most often proven to be hoaxes over time. As I said, I hope it's true, but science has never found an advantage to organic. And even if there is a long term advantage to it by not having herbicide traces in it, short term benefits would show up much better in tests. I hope you are right because cancer is a nasty thing, but at this point I can't see it.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that chemicals used in farming can be potentially harmful. Along with modern farming came proportionate increases in deadly diseases like cancer. As time progresses, we find more and more that artificial chemicals CAN be bad for us.

The organic "movement" seeks to reduce the uses of harmful chemicals and return us to a more natural means of producing our food. In my experience, organically raises vegetables taste better, have better texture, and store longer that the mas produced foods that come from the big commercial farms. Tomatoes would be a prime example. Can anybody deny that a fresh picked fully ripe tomato tastes better than a hothouse tomato that was picked green, gassed to turn it red, and refrigerated and shipped thousands of miles? The same applies to broccoli, corn, and beans.

Personally, I raise almost all of my vegetables for the year in my back yard. I can, freeze, and preserve vegetables for use all year. The stuff from the stores simply does not measure up.
 
Nobody denies garden vegetables are better than store vegetables, but I doubt you could taste the difference between an organic and non-organic garden tomato picked at peak freshness. Would the long term health benefits be noticeable? No one has ever been able to find proof of it.
 
That one has me scratching my head too. No denying that if my wife uses fertilizer and fungicide in the garden,that a fresh tomato from there will be better than an "organic" that was hot house grown and picked green.

I think there's some confusion of terms going on here. Organic doesn't necessarily mean fresh.
 
I was a commercial pesticide applicator for 9 years. I have sprayed tens of thousands of acres over that time.

My neighbor, who's been organic for 20 years, was contacted by a company looking to buy organic wheat. They'll pay a $5 premium over the market price (about $9.50 right now) BUT you have to submit a sample so they can test it for residual Glyphosate. His sample failed. This is ground that hasn't had glyphosate sprayed on it in over 20 years. It's one of the safest chemicals available, much safer than dicamba or 2,4d, but it's still there and in testable amounts in organic wheat.

And I hear on the radio the ad for insecticides you can FEED to your dairy cattle to kill flies in the manure. REALLY?!?

Then there was Milestone, which is an aminoclopyrolid, that horse owners sprayed on thier pastures and allowed the horses to graze after the grazing interval. It was consumed, went through the horse, was "deposited", and cleaned up to be used in gradens, where it killed the next year's tomatoes.

Yeah, Gimme more chemicals.
 
If you look at the next bunch you'll see the end is sealed. That's the difference. The wife bought a bunch a while back. Those banana's laid on the counter for two weeks before the first one was ripe enough to eat. A week later another was ripe. After the fourth week and third banana I mentioned the crazy banana's to my daughter. She noticed the sealed end and told me to remove it. Did that and the rest of the banana's ripened that week. Those banana's were greener than any I've ever seen but lasting pert near 5 weeks on the counter tells me they are not organic no matter what the label say's. They were good though.
 
Marilyn's sister has been fighting stage four breast cancer for five years. The latest episode was a brain tumor last September. The cancer center has now put her on a cancer diet, no sweets, non cooked vegies, or is it the other way around with the vegies. Anyway it's a quite strict diet. I think the cancer center put her on this diet as a last ditch effort because they are running out of aces with normal cancer treatments. I don't think they can confirm whether this diet works or not, but at this point there is nothing to lose.

I have a brother in law who is a health food, vitamin pill junkie to the max and he is getting worse with age. He is non-gmo and of course organic but he is not vegan. His latest kick is to avoid foods cooked in the microwave because a microwave is supposed to destroy the 'goodies' in food, whatever that is. I can't say he is any healthier than anyone else. In fact he is getting so thin it's alarming.
 
So if you had cancer and the doctors told you they thought that eating organically would improve your chances of beating the cancer you'd turn them down? Yea I bet.
 
Interesting. Sealed with what. As far as organic, was raised on it. Every body was back then. It's mostly baloney. We call the local organic guy. GRANT.
 
I don't buy organic, I tell my wife to watch closely what she is buying because the stores like to sneak the organic in with the rest, don't notice until the cash register starts smoking!

And how do you know it really is organic?

But as far as using real organic, (as knowing exactly where it comes from and what was used in the processing) for cancer patients, I can see a real advantage in that.

Those people are being given the latest high tech drugs and treatments. Those drugs are highly susceptible to interaction with other chemicals. Since a lot of the treatments are in the experimental stages, they need as pure an environment as they can get in order to have repeatable tests, to know exactly what worked or what didn't, and why.
 
No I would not likely do that, but I also doubt it would help. As I said, anything that makes the patient better, even if it's just psychologically is good with me.
 
I have mixed emotions on organic food and farming but with that said I have the upmost respect for those who do take the plunge and farm organic. They are not taking the easy road and now we have been seeing some of the practices from organic merging into conventional such as cover crops. Although they are nothing new there has been a resurgence and proof that they are a viable option for farming and does cut down on the need for chemicals in crop ground.

In my experiences in organic food tasting better is because most of the time the food is grown/processed in smaller operations where there is more care attention to quality over quantity. Meat is going to taste better out of a locker vs a packing plant, vegetables are going to taste better out of a garden vs a large vegetable farm where the plant has been bred to be shipped half way across the country. Also doctors will tell you to avoid processed foods more than anything.

I do try to buy local more than organic vs conventional. I want to keep the money here. Take a look and see who donates to the local church/school function, kids events or benefits? Its the local stores, businesses, farmers that do that. I never see where Walmart or Amazon has donated to any such things.

But Im not going to bad mouth the BTO crop farmers or the little organic vegetable farmer. Were all agriculture and were all in this together.
 
Randy, there's so much more to this and so many opinions, theories, science and chemistry, no way it will stay a civil discussion.

I've always grown tomatoes, no chemicals for fertilizer or insects, same with all of my gardens, works great for me. Fresh garden tomatoes are better than any other in my book.

However, there's a product on the market from Italy,by Lucini - tomato basil sauce, it's incredible, costly, reminds me exactly of how my fresh tomatoes taste when I process them.
This product is clearly something special, jar sauces for the most part are truly awful. This happens to be "certified organic" LOL - now I'm not bashing chemical use, don't care for it, but have farmed with it just the same.
 
I only buy organic food even tho it's hard to find. For ten years I couldn't buy organic salad dressing, but now Walmart sells it. EVERYTHING has corn syrup in it. I used to plant corn and had insecticide boxs behind the planters. Now the insecticide is in the corn. And people wonder why there is so much cancer these days? I hardly remember anyone who had cancer when I was a kid. Now it seems like everyone is dying from it. How many have died even on this forum?
 
LOL this just gets funnier and funnier. You anti organic/grass fed/free range/cage free and whatever else fits guys need to 1st: stop calling it a fad. It's way past that now. When you have whole grocery stores dedicated to this stuff.....when you have a store that caters to lower income people provide these goods it isn't a fad any longer. Wal Mart did not wake up one day and say "we are going to save the world". They started carrying that stuff because of customer demand.

Basically the end customer is sending farmers a message. That message is that they no longer trust you to provide a safe product. Now don't get going. I didn't say anything was unsafe. John Q. Public said it. With the loudest voice possible......MONEY! That means the farmer has to convince the general public that what they produce is safe. And they are going to look at you as if you were selling used cars. They don't know you and don't trust you.

Rick
 
How many people lived long enough to die from cancer when you were a kid? Poor nutrition, work and living conditions got many more people back then before they could get cancer. Not to mention that many of them died from cancer without knowing why.
 
Maybe not organic but why do fresh eggs last 6 months and store bought eggs last 2 weeks if lucky. We keep duck eggs and chicken eggs in the fridge and date the carton and after 5 months you float test the eggs and some our good for another month yet. Something to think about.
 
Just like every farmer,my wife doesn't use anything in the garden that she doesn't have to,but just the fact that she might use a little fertilizer off the wagon while I'm planting corn,or some fungicide when conditions call for it doesn't mean to me that her tomatoes won't taste as good as "organic". Like I said,organics are picked green and shipped north in cold weather too.

By the way,the mail carrier was here about 10 minutes ago with a big envelope that I had to sign for. It was a big package of tomato seeds from Ukraine. Just how those were grown will always be a mystery.
 
Anyone know why organics must be certified organic? Because there is no other way to know.
 
Randy I’ve sometimes wondered if the garden seeds we are buying are the same seeds the commercial producers use. I’ll bet they are. Maybe I should look for some heirloom seeds to see how hey compare. I still have time, doesn’t look like the garden will be planted anytime soon.
 
The reason there is more cancer is the same reason the current leader doesn't have wooden teeth. Technology for identifying and treating is far better even in my life time. I will give you this. I would agree that fresh food available on the old small farms was better than pre-packaged, but our life expectancy has gone up through this same time frame. Go figure.
 
Whoa whoa whoa Jim. Get out of here with your level-headed and thoughtful response. Can't do that on the internet. Unless you're on a high horse putting someone else down, we don't wanna hear it.
 
Commercial field tomatoes are intentionally selected to have long shelf life in the grocery store. They will store just as long or longer than organic tomatoes because of variety selection and plant breeding. The grower wants them to have firm flesh so they are not damaged and can be harvested by mechanical harvesters. Firm flesh also prevents transport damage on the way to the processor. Peak freshness and organic terms can be confused sometimes. A fresh tomato or garden tomato undoubtedly taste better than store bought but it may not be organic grown.
 
From obesity brought on by abundant food, amoung other reasons. One cure for obesity would be to demand organic so the supply is harder to get, so that is a plus.
 
Wow, I was going to ask about finding bell bottom pants at Walmart any more, but you beat me to it. :)

In the late 60s to the 90s folks fell in love with satisfying cravings, convenience, and time savings.

Food processors complied with that 'fad' and made mush that you could nuke for 4 minutes, was full of salt, fat, and sugar. It was the perfect food!

Well, until you ate it for 30 years.

And many people realize that maybe wasn't quite right, and that food dad was bad.

But we are a generation or two removed from gardens, and farms, and don't know how things grow. And so public opinion knows they want better, but they don't understand what better is. Or where to turn.

Food processors realized they were in trouble, and figured out some good PR. They still offer the cheap processed fluff to the masses, but they also created new high cost, high margin specialty foods, labeled 'organic.' They got the word out that farmers are trying to kill everyone, but if you buy this high dollar 'organic' stuff you will be fine. Just show us the money!

and so, the organic fad was created. And consumers, with no understanding of farming and such, were easily misled by the very people that led them down the bad path of old, to hate on farmers, not the food processors themselves.

It's a good thing really tho, people are involved and concerned with their eating habits. That is good. Buying local, the few weeks a year that product grows local, is wonderful. Being in touch with your grower is wonderful. but the small organic folk latched onto the same dollar signs the big food processors did, and also spread the myths that all farmers want to kill everyone, and the only safe food is manure soaked organic produce from my table...... becaise that is how the organic producer survives, on higher margins, on sales pitches.

Clearly, to any thinking person, the food source is not a big deal. Organic, conventional, it makes no difference. The food supply in the USA is well grown, and safe.

What happens to it after it leaves the farm and hits your plate is where all the issues are. The food processors. They answered the fad of the 70s and 80s, and now thry are profiting from misdirection of who to 'blame' for bad food, and in with the latest fad.

Pretty smart of them.

Someday the circle will come around, and intelligent people will realize it's how the food is processed and mashed together, not whether it is organic or conventional.

Certainly consumers talk. They were wrong when they wanted cheap fluff mush sugary greasy quick. They were wrong when they wanted bell bottoms, too.

And, they are wrong when they think organic is better than conventional crops.

It's all in how the food is processed and converted into food we stick in our mouths.

Grown local, and all that is great. I really enjoy the market garden when it shows up for the few weeks of summer we have up here. I stop there once a week. But it's not 'organic' that matters. I actually avoid the folks that push the whole organic, sustainable fad stuff, I have no time for such PR. I see through that.

But give me a good local access, a market, to local grown stuff, and that is a wonderful fad, I hope that part of it all continues for a long topine.


The other issue here, folks are talking about how wonderful their garden picked tomato is, compared to the crap in the store. And I agree with that. But, looking out the window at the snow falling down on mid April, it's gonna be a long time until I can go pick a tomato from the garden. If I want one today, then it needs to come from Columbia or a greenhouse from across the country and just isnt ever going to be fresh 'today' for me here. If we want to follow this line of thinking, then we need to eat stewed tomatoes 10 moths of the year, which are as bland and blah as the imported ones. Nothing fresh and wonderful about that. We lose perspective when we dream about the garden tomato, which is treat a few short weeks a year, compared to no to,ago at all if we won't accept the tougher, blander imports.

You get to pick one or the other, not both. Fresh imported from a long ways away; or available a very short time each year.

I'm glad I like sour kraut, under some of your rules, that's about all we get over the winter months!

Paul
 
Oh these are definitely different. Every variety has a different size,shape,color and taste of tomato. Some of the things she grows are hardly recognizable as tomatoes. There are some that I and others won't even put in our mouths because we can't get past how they look. It's amazing how many different things can be called tomatoes. lol

I have no idea how many varieties she has now. Has to be between 300 and 500. She'll try a few dozen different ones every year to see what they are. If she likes them,she'll grow more of that particular variety the next year to have plants to sell commercially.
 
As far as the "doctors" at this hospital making a decision to go organic,I'd have to think it wasn't their decision,but the decision of a board of directors after a good sales pitch.
 
Yes and they carry some seed that are hard to find. I had Chinese noodle beans a couple years back and loved them and they are the only place I can find the seed from
 
I get the same magazine. I enjoy reading it.
Does it really matters so much?
I still see the 'over weight' buyers spending their money on this type of product.
How about walking around the block a few times a week. I guess that means they would have to get up and do some sort of physical labor.
 
Did you miss the part about the insecticide is now part of the corn plant? I used to put the insecticide in the ground with the seed; that's how it used to be done. Nowdays, with the GMO corn, if a root worm eats the corn, he dies. Anyway, that's what I heard on the internet, and everything you hear on the internet is true. Ha. That's the big halabaloo about corn syrup. The wonders of biotech. So is the insecticide confined to the roots? The company that sells the seed is sure not going to tell you. BTOs on this forum are not going to tell you. The fake news aren't going to tell you. The thing is, it is hard to grow corn without insecticide. Maybe you have to rotate crops every year. A lot of corn is grown around here and the same fields are planted in corn every year.
 
Likely not much to notice in taste, conventional fertilizers don't bother me as much as what's used for weed control or insects. I'm able to fertilize with dried blood, bone meal and dried green grasses for mulch and nitrogen. Put a heap of that near a cluster of corn and those stalks will be olive(r) LOL drab green, tall and more than one ear. Amazing whats out there for seed, she must have a lot of fun doing this. I save seeds from all kinds of things, try to plant as much as I can and enjoy seeing things grow.
 
On the usda website there is information showing the
correlation between the use of round up and chronic disease.
It has been on a steady rise since round up ready crops came
into use
 
No problem getting organic in my area 2 grocery stores devoted to it entirely and every other grocery store has a a well stocked organic section.Actually the use of corn syrup as a sweetener is a lot of the problem of obesity.
 
(quoted from post at 14:04:11 04/18/18) Did you miss the part about the insecticide is now part of the corn plant? I used to put the insecticide in the ground with the seed; that's how it used to be done. Nowdays, with the GMO corn, if a root worm eats the corn, he dies. Anyway, that's what I heard on the internet, and everything you hear on the internet is true. Ha. That's the big halabaloo about corn syrup. The wonders of biotech. So is the insecticide confined to the roots? The company that sells the seed is sure not going to tell you. BTOs on this forum are not going to tell you. The fake news aren't going to tell you. The thing is, it is hard to grow corn without insecticide. Maybe you have to rotate crops every year. A lot of corn is grown around here and the same fields are planted in corn every year.

The insecticide in BT corn is really a protein the target insects can’t handle. Does it hurt humans? I don’t know.
 
Well all I have to say is my sons and I produced 4.5 million lbs. of beef last year. The majority of it was choice or better grade. I would like to see any "organic" producer do that.

Yes garden FRESH vegetables taste good but the last garden I raised was totally wiped out by Japanese beetles. Nothing organic or chemical would have saved that blight. The fresh part is what makes the largest difference.

I can also remember when not many families could eat beef very often in their diet because of the cost.

I also have seen people that starve because their crops that are totally "organic" but will not grow in the adverse conditions they have. The tree huggers have stopped GMO crops from getting to some of the poorest countries in the world. These same tree huggers are usually of higher incomes so they can afford "organic" or whatever kind of food. They think they have done the world a great service by stopping the GMO from reaching the POOR people of the world. When what they really have done is doomed thousands of them to die from starvation!!!!!!

I guess starving today is better. I want some of the most strident ANTI GMO people to hold a young child that is starving to death in their arms as that child takes its last breath!!!!! Then tell me how evil all GMO and modern plants are!!!!! There are grains and other crops that handle dry weather and heat better than anything they grow today but those plants/seeds can not go to the poorest countries because they use GMO technologies.

Europe has become totally anti GMO and then they force that view on the majority of Africa. That is darn easy when the Europeans are doing this with full stomachs.

Since we have switched from insecticides to GMO plants/seeds the soil on our farms sure has a lot more worms and other beneficial bugs in it. Our test weights are higher, our yields are higher. We also use very little Round up. We use a more varied program to control weeds that are not controlled by RR anymore. The herbicide resistance gets the main focus but the other traits are the ones that really make the difference.


But the heck with any kind of facts. The "FEELINGS" are better than any facts or science when it comes to food/organics. I do not like dumping large amounts of chemicals on crops and we don't. I also know that organic crops yield a lot less than conventional crops. The only part of organic comes close is diary. Produce would be second and grain production would be last.
 
Let em go hungry then . With the world population
exploding how are we going to keep food on the
table with lower yield and more weeds ?
 
I was watching YouTube the other day and people have about the same view of farmers as they do a child molester because the anti ag goons feed them a bunch of bull and they believe it . The dairy I was working for was organic the hay they bought cost twice as much for junk the grain cost more the yields on the grain and corn we raised was a 1/3 lower sometimes as much as half lower than conventional you should see a beautiful crop of organic barley with rag weeds higher than your head that you have to swath in July and let lay for 3 weeks for the weeds to dry enough to run it through the combine becuse the only way you can control weeds is with a rotary hoe or a spring tine harrow
 
So what does a sale happening because of a divorce have anything to do with what type operation they ran? Plenty of very successful businesses have gone down the tubes because of divorce.
 
My neighbor is an organic farmer that ships open pollinated corn, the seed corn companies also do farms in my area for pollination isolation.

So, ya I do see a lot of it.
 
People starve because of corrupt and lousy gov'ts places like Cuba,Venezuela,Zimbabwe are examples of
corrupt Gov't being the cause of starvation.Where and when exactly did you see all these people you say starved because of organic growing methods being used? Do you really understand just what
organic methods really are?
 
Steve, I think hen coats that egg before it comes out, but if you want to sell to city people, you have to wash them. I prefer my eggs from hens that eat bugs & chicken feed!!!
HTH
Led
 
The "insecticides" you refer to in Bt corn is actually a form of protein that breaks down the digestive system in insects....and Bt corn has been grown and eaten across the country for decades with no identifiable effects.
Ben
 
This has been my point all along. Here where food is cheap and easy to get, its easy to promote a system that cuts production since no one here will go hungry. All that feel good will eventually cause more hunger, but it will be far away and easily ignored. And all for a cause that has never shown any harm (gmo) and has never been proven to be better in any way (organic).
 
Much of the lower Sahara area in Africa has frequent drought and low yielding crops. There are grains that where specifically targeted for those areas but not go because GMO tech made them possible. This started 20 years ago because the GMO traits that helped with heat and drought stress where mastered before the chemical resistance passed the trials.
 
A few years ago Consumer Reports did a detailed study on the benefits or non benefits of Organic Foods. As I recall, they found no measurable benefit using Organic vs Non-Organic. Organic did not justify the added cost in their opinion.

Freshness and taste has more to do with being close to the producer, not Organic or Non-Organic. We spend 3 months in Arizona each year and buy our groceries at Fry's which is part of Kroger. Their lettuce, cabbage, carrots are all produced 5 miles from their store, usually delivered within 24 hours of harvest. These are all Non Organic Producers, and this produce is as tasty as anything raised in my Wisconsin garden.

If the consumer wants to pay a premium for Organic, fine let him do it. In my opinion most probably do not know why they are doing it, except someone said it was better for you. I am not one of them.
 
(quoted from post at 19:00:03 04/18/18) Much of the lower Sahara area in Africa has frequent drought and low yielding crops. There are grains that where specifically targeted for those areas but not go because GMO tech made them possible. This started 20 years ago because the GMO traits that helped with heat and drought stress where mastered before the chemical resistance passed the trials.

JD Seller, Most of what I've seen regarding seed in Africa is that Monsanto came up with a terminator gene where they can make any plant not produce seed on the second generation. They supposedly offered these seeds which supposedly also had some drought tolerance bred into them and were met with much negative backlash. Basically Monsanto wanted another market and wanted to guarantee that the farmers wouldn't replant the seeds.

Also, why is it that you think you have a mission to "feed the world"? How does it benefit you when the government gives away free wheat and corn to Africans? More importantly, how does it benefit the citizens of other countries to become dependent on free US food?

Corrupt governments are definitely the problem. Zimbabwe was a grain exporting country until Mugabe took over and ran it for hiw own personal gain. They are now dependent on foreign aid. Remember that big stink back in the 90's when were were giving corn to Egypt and Mubarak was turning around and selling it on the open market in competition against US? Meanwhile his people were starving....

I know I'm not a "serious" farmer like you because I only have a 6 row planter versus your three 16 row planters, but it really irks me that you have the nerve to accuse me of starving African babies!
 
The guy that tiles my farms is organic...about 600 acres. Many scattered plots, small in size. He"s always suing someone for contaminating his fields from drift, including the local co-op. I don"t need the plat book to find his fields...I just drive thru his neighborhood and look for the weedy ones. Checking the plat book, yup, that"s where I"m at! All winter he"s been composting crop residue to mix and spray on his fields.
 
David I bet that in the Cedar Rapids area there is not 2% of the crops grown truly organic. There is/was the fellow right there at the 2 to 4 lane merge west of Mt. Vernon on 30 that grew produce or tried, on some pretty poor soils. He grew some great weeds there.

I live right across from a very good farmer. He went organic 10 years ago with his dairy. He struggles to produce protein feed for his cows. He rents extra ground to grow soybeans to roast. He never needed that ground when he was conventionally farming. He rarely can get over 15-20 Bushels per acre of soybeans because of weed pressure. It is a good thing he can chop his corn if the weeds take over. He has to about half the time. He is at the mercy of the weather too much. He has fertility and cultivates but neither of those do much good when you get wet weather that does not allow you in the field. Even better it rains a few hours after you just cultivated. Then on herd health. He struggles with keeping cows. They will be in great condition and health. Then wham he gets hit with a mastitis out break and down the road go some more cows. He has free stalls for 100 cows but struggles to keep in the 75-80 range. When he was doing conventional farming he was in the top of the county in production and longevity.

I do know some other very successful organic farmers. They are successful monetarily not crop production wise. They average 1/3 to 1/2 of the crop that can be produced conventionally on their ground. That is in good years too. Two of them are heavy into produce. They both say the second the big premiums are gone in organic, they are back to conventional farming. They only do organic because of those premiums.

Many of the fellows I see jump on the organic band wagon fail because they are not making money in the conventional farming world. Usually to some management short coming. Then they chase the "BIG" dollar organic market. They just about always fail. Their management short comings are magnified with organic. You have hours/days to do things right not days or weeks. The people that I know that are successful at organic, are all top notch managers. Most of them would be successful managing just about any business. So I say that is their "key" to success not organic production.



Organic is easy to promote and believe in when your earning higher wages plus living in a country with abundant food supplies. Try that poor and with tight food supplies and the wheels fall off real fast.
 
Wouldn"t that issue be because of how much corn syrup the consumer decided to pour on his meal..not the intrinsic content of the corn syrup?
 
Yes, washing destroys the coating and longevity is lost. But city people don"t want to see chicken poop on their eggs, so....
 
rockyridgefarm It irks me when you organic farmers run around telling stories about how good/great your ORGANIC Stuff is and conventional farm products are all garbage, when it has never been proven in any kind of scientific study or test. Sell your product directly against mine but do not run mine down just to promote your product. If your organic product is so superior than the market would soon cause a supply and demand for more an more of it.

The second there is any kind of economic recession the average consumer quickly decides conventional is Ok again.

As for the facts of the matter. If the world food production would go all organic there is no way to feed the 4+ Billion people on this planet. So who get to choose those that do not get to eat????? You would not even have to go to full organic 50% would do it.

As for whether or not your a serious farmer, size does not have anything to do with it. If you read my reply to David you see I clearly state that the majority of the organic farmers I know, that are successful, are because of good management not organic. Organic just makes it possible to make a smaller farm work because of the higher prices. The second organic supply increases or demand drops either would cause a price drop, then organic producers will be in for tough times too.

Conventional farming has become a high volume low price market. We are on the small side of making that work. Over 50% of the acres my sons run over are custom farming acres. That is how they can be farmers in today's farm economic reality.

So do not denigrate my product and I will not denigrate your production/marketing practices.

It just seems to me the organic crowd likes to play the organic is king card when that is not the entire truth.
 
But let?s lower yields and tell people how bad
something is when it isn?t and every time some
brings up large scale farming be sure to blame the
problem on Monsanto . As far as feeding the world
where do you think food comes from ? If all the
fields produced like organic crops we?d all starve to
death including the African babies . Monsanto did
not pay for this message oh wait maybe they did I
heard they?ve modified a gene in our oatmeal that
makes us think farmers aren?t the most evil pos on
the planet .
a265447.jpg
 
That's funny. I often see organic nanners marked down below regular ones because they are very close to being rotten.
 
(quoted from post at 14:42:59 04/18/18) There is no doubt in my mind that chemicals used in farming can be potentially harmful. Along with modern farming came proportionate increases in deadly diseases like cancer. As time progresses, we find more and more that artificial chemicals CAN be bad for us.

The organic "movement" seeks to reduce the uses of harmful chemicals and return us to a more natural means of producing our food. In my experience, organically raises vegetables taste better, have better texture, and store longer that the mas produced foods that come from the big commercial farms. Tomatoes would be a prime example. Can anybody deny that a fresh picked fully ripe tomato tastes better than a hothouse tomato that was picked green, gassed to turn it red, and refrigerated and shipped thousands of miles? The same applies to broccoli, corn, and beans.

Personally, I raise almost all of my vegetables for the year in my back yard. I can, freeze, and preserve vegetables for use all year. The stuff from the stores simply does not measure up.
As farming methods became more modern lifespans lengthened and scientific methods of detection became better. Modern farming is not the evil cancer causing thing some folks make it out to be.
 
Jdseller,

I focus on the chemical / overproduction side of it. I spent 8 years as an applicator and I saw all the crap that goes into conventional grain and vegetable production. I also drove truck for canners and saw the huge amount of waste in production - dumpsters full of canned corn going straight to the crusher because it didn’t “make spec”. Green bean pickers leaving a half acre of beans because they saw a handful of Canada thistle and the canner doesn’t want to risk getting a seed head in the cans. Million bushel piles of bad corn being ”blended” into good corn. Then you go into the store and you can buy a bag of Idaho potatoes in Wisconsin for a few bucks , and you can go to Idaho and buy Wisconsin potatoes for a few bucks, and you know where the profit went for both farmers... There’s a member of this forum that likes to say “There is no product the American farmer cannot overproduce ito worthlessness”.

You’ve chosen to go the low profit/high volume route. I’ve chosen to go the added value route. I always correct buyers when they talk about some of the garbage they’ve heard, like the “more nutritious” stuff. I also give them the reasons I AM organic, and it is always the use of chemicals and the issue of confinement animal operations. Then I ask them if they fertilize or spray their lawn. If they say yes, I tell them they may as well buy the cheapest food because they’re defeating any good they think they are doing by buying organic food.

If I could be not organic and chemical free and push the local, small producer aspect of my operation, I would. Being certified is a pita. I just got my results back for gmo contamination in my corn and it came back 2%. Now I’m not a huge anti-gmoer, I’m anti chemical overuse and I’m also anti-patenting living organisms and I’m also extremely anti-Monsanto and syngentas business practices of trying to buy up all independent seed producers. What will come of that??? So now I have to write up a big report on why I have 2% contamination.

So I don’t think your problem is with me, or at least I hope it isn’t. It’s with the marketers, and I have the same dislike of how they do things. But I am gonna stay organic only because I don’t want to own a 12 row planter, let alone a 16, and I don’t want to run down the road from dead family farm to dead family farm to make a couple bucks per acre.
 
My biggest complaint with the present system is millions of consumers are forced to support those farmers that are producing a product that many people do not want to consume thru
the US Gov't tax system.Billion$ are handed out in various ways to these large scale growers every year.If the chemical/GMO growers had to pay all the true costs for their farming and marketing
their products their products would be more expensive than those grown by smaller producers.The great lie is bigger makes things cheaper in the US food industry if all costs are added its not true.The only thing bigger does is give the big operators money from the large ag companies to lobby Congress to hand out Billions in Farm Welfare every year.
 
My neighbor, who's been organic for 20 years, was contacted by a company looking to buy organic wheat. They'll pay a $5 premium over the market price (about $9.50 right now) BUT you have to submit a sample so they can test it for residual Glyphosate. His sample failed. This is ground that hasn't had glyphosate sprayed on it in over 20 years. It's one of the safest chemicals available, much safer than dicamba or 2,4d, but it's still there and in testable amounts in organic wheat.

Ever consider that maybe it drifted over from another farm, possibly miles away?
 
(quoted from post at 05:49:03 04/19/18)
My neighbor, who's been organic for 20 years, was contacted by a company looking to buy organic wheat. They'll pay a $5 premium over the market price (about $9.50 right now) BUT you have to submit a sample so they can test it for residual Glyphosate. His sample failed. This is ground that hasn't had glyphosate sprayed on it in over 20 years. It's one of the safest chemicals available, much safer than dicamba or 2,4d, but it's still there and in testable amounts in organic wheat.

Ever consider that maybe it drifted over from another farm, possibly miles away?

Sure, it could have been drift. Ask yourself this- does that make it better? Most guys on here are all about private property rights. Some have gone so far as threatening violence on any trespassers, including and especially drones. Would pesticide drift be considered trespassing? If not, why not? Who is responsible if pesticide does drift?

Arkansas and Missouri banned the application of dicamba for a time due to issues of drift. I think the ban has been lifted, but one guy shot another over dicamba drift last year or the year before. Maybe it was 2,4d but it did happen
 
Did you click the link and look at the pictures and read the descriptions? Not a real clean operation. The scrappers are gonna have a field day at that sale. If it'd been a money making operation you'd think they could have afforded some maintenance. If the equipment was that rough,what were the conditions where they were milking?
 
God I love you! That's exactly my problem with all of it. They can't sell it without denigrating what the rest of us do. As far as consumers demanding it,those lies and half truths are WHY they want it and why I call it a fad. I won't participate in anything that can only exist by scaring people in to participating.

Reading all these replies shows so much ignorance and a confusion of terms it's ridiculous. You can be conventional without growing GMO,orgaincs are shipped long distances too,fresh and local don't have to be organic,the list goes on. Inputs are expensive,we all use them as sparingly as possible to get the job done!

As far as having to be a BTO to make a living farming,that's BS too. I've never in my life farmed over 300 acres. I own 240,not all tillable,and paid for it farming. I rent a few small acreages around me,most are 15-20 acres. The largest piece I rent is 40 tillable. You just have to find an enterprise that makes some money and stick with it. No,you can't make a living raising corn and beans on a few marginal acres. That kind of land is suited for livestock. If the enterprises that can make some money from are too much work for you and all you really want to do is play with big toys,don't quit your day job.
 
As far as taste of something,yes,it has everything to do with where you are when you eat it. Take something right out of the garden in to the house and eat it fresh it's great. Sit around a camp fire after a day of hunting,and fried Spam and Ramen noodles taste like a meal fit for a king,but make it on your kitchen stove and sit down to the table and see how it tastes.
 
Dicamba turns in to a gaseous vapor and is way more prone to drift than other herbicides. Most stay in the carrier,which is usually water. If the water droplets don't drift,the herbicide doesn't drift. If you want to see how little drift there is with other herbicides,just look at the edge of a field. There's a distinct line where the pattern ended,it doesn't fade off over a few feet or even inches.
 

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