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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel

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TBA

04-16-2018 18:34:56




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Tractors or trucks, new or old.
Any advantages to mixing 2 stroke oil in diesel fuel, with or without already treated fuel like power clean treatment




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showcrop

04-17-2018 17:34:04




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
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Barnyard, I drive carefully and don't go around getting into wrecks with my car or truck, yet I still wear a seat belt despite there being no law mandating them here. Safety and caution first :wink:



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BarnyardEngineering

04-17-2018 11:25:35




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
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My thoughts exactly. If this were the crisis it's being made out to be, where are the mobs of angry people with seized up older diesel engines?
Some guys claim that they put some snake oil in their diesel and it actually makes the engine quieter. Yeah, I put a K&N filter in my truck once, swore to God it felt like it had 20HP more, until I started driving it normally again. Then I knew it didn't make a hill of beans' difference.

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David G

04-17-2018 07:42:30




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
I see no need to add lubricity to ULSD, unless possibly you run old engine 24x7, but doubt anyone on here does.

For putting around, it is unneeded.



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JDEM

04-17-2018 08:41:21




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to David G, 04-17-2018 07:42:30  
RE your comment . . "For putting around, it is unneeded"

That is based on what evidence? Also what difference does it make is someone "puts around" versus uses the tractor hard? The main wear point is the head & rotor in the distributor pump. Second area is the rotary-vane transfer pump. Neither know the difference if the tractor is worked hard or not.

The less lube in fuel, the more wear. Is someone really wants to argue - guess you need to buy some fuel at the pump and have it tested and see how much additive your supplier is putting in. All the fuel sellers are supposed to be putting in lube additive unless the diesel is sold as heating oil.

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Scott 730

04-17-2018 07:22:33




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf



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Scott 730

04-17-2018 07:20:41




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
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This is not a military test. JDEM made a statement that the military had wear problems with pumps is all. My guess is the wear was from using JP-8.



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showcrop

04-17-2018 06:58:30




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
This topic comes up every 6-8 months. I add two stroke oil, which is formulated for this use, at the rate of 1 oz. per gal. to the fuel for my two old diesels. I will not wait for the pump to fail to decide to do something.



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JDEM

04-17-2018 06:02:50




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
Here are some old test-results using various lube-aids. Still relevant if you have a rotary-distributor injection pump you want to last as long as possible. I have been using it in my 1994 Ford 7.3 since the new diesel came out. I put a new head & rotor in the pump 180,000 miles ago and it still runs fine. Not really proof of anything except I have not hurt anything.

The US military had severe pump wear problems with Stanadyne rotary pumps. They tried using special hard parts-kits in them to endure low-lube fuel better.

These results are listed in the order of performance in the HFRR test. The baseline fuel used in every test started at an HFRR score of 636. The score shown is the tested HFRR score of the baseline fuel/additive blend.
Also included is the wear scar improvement provided by the additive as well as other claimed benefits of the additive. Each additive is also categorized as a Multi-purpose additive, Multi-purpose + anti-gel, Lubricity only, non-conventional, or as an additive capable of treating both gasoline and diesel fuel. As a convenience to the reader there is also information on price per treated tank of diesel fuel (using a 26 gallon tank), and dosage per 26 gallon tank provided as “ounces of additive per 26 gallon tank”.

In Order Of Performance:

1) 2% REG SoyPower biodiesel
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value

2)Opti-Lube XPD
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, demulsifier
HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement.
256:1 ratio
13 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

3)FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas fuel treatment
Gas and Diesel
cetane improver, emulsifier
HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.60/tank

4)Opti-Lube Summer Blend
Multi-purpose
demulsifier
HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement
3000:1 ratio
1.11 oz/tank
$0.68/tank

5)Opti-Lube Winter Blend
Muti-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver
HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement
512:1 ratio
6.5 oz/tank
$3.65/tank

6)Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible
HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.87/tank

7)Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
$1.09/tank

8)Stanadyne Lubricity Formula
Lubricity Only
demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.00/tank

9)Amsoil Diesel Concentrate
Multi-purpose
demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.16/tank

10)Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement
400:1 ratio
8.32 oz/tank
$1.58/tank

11)Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner
Multi-purpose
Alcohol free
HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.36/tank

12)Stanadyne Performance Formula
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement
480:1 ratio
6.9 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

13)Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15w40, 5,000 miles used.
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems)
HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
price: market value

14)Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant
Gas or diesel
HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change)
427:1 ratio
7.8 oz/tank
$2.65/tank

15)B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech
Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive
HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change)
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.67/tank

16)FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.12/tank

17)Marvel Mystery Oil
Gas, oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems)
HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel.
320:1 ratio
10.4 oz/tank
$3.22/tank

18)ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty /Marine Diesel Fuel Additive
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.38/tank

19)Primrose Power Blend 2003
Multi-purpose
Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, emulsifier
HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline
1066:1 ratio
3.12 oz/tank
$1.39/tank

CONCLUSIONS:

Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the most strict requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association.
Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel.
Products 16 through 19 were found to cause the fuel/additive blend to perform worse than the baseline fuel. The cause for this is speculative. This is not unprecedented in HFRR testing and can be caused by alcohol or other components in the additives. Further investigation into the possibilities behind these poor results will investigated.
Any additive testing within +/- 20 microns of the baseline fuel could be considered to have no significant change. The repeatability of this test allows for a +/- 20 micron variability to be considered insignificant.

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IanC

04-17-2018 06:43:00




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to JDEM, 04-17-2018 06:02:50  
Would you please provide a link or web address to the test, I'd like to read it. If you don't have it readily available, which branch did the test (my guess is the Army)?



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JDEM

04-17-2018 07:02:56




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to IanC, 04-17-2018 06:43:00  
It is not a test done by our military. It was an independent test done in Texas.

The US Army did many tests on rotary-pump wear but not with lube-additives. Since the Army had extreme pump wear problems with GM 6.2 and 6.5 V8s - their approach was to get Stanadyne to make the pumps more durable. The only thing Stanadyne came up with was a kit with specially hardened parts to go into the low-pressure fuel-transfer-pump section. Called the "Arctic parts kit."

Here is an example. Two similar pumps. The one with "cSt" has the special kit.

DB2829-4520 23500413 1986-87 CUCV (Military), HD D Truck C/K — — DB2829-4521 23500414 1986-87 CUCV (Military), HD D Truck - 1.2 cSt C/K — —


"An independent research firm in Texas was hired to do the laboratory work. The cost of the research was paid for voluntarily by the participating additive manufacturers. Declining to participate and pay for the research were the following companies: Amsoil and Power Service. Because these are popular products it was determined that they needed to be included in the study. These products were tested using funds collected by diesel enthusiasts at “dieselplace.com”. Additionally, unconventional additives such as 2-cycle oil and used motor oil were tested for their abilities to aid in diesel fuel lubricity. These were also paid for by members of “dieselplace.com”.
The study was conducted in the following manner:
-The Research firm obtained a quantity of “untreated” ULSD fuel from a supplier. This fuel was basic ULSD fuel intended for use in diesel engines. However, this sample was acquired PRIOR to any attempt to additize the fuel for the purpose of replacing lost lubricity. In other words, it was a “worst case scenario, very dry diesel fuel” that would likely cause damage to any fuel delivery system. This fuel was tested using the HFRR at the Southwest Research Laboratory. This fuel was determined to have a very high HFRR score of 636 microns, typical of an untreated ULSD fuel. It was determined that this batch of fuel would be utilized as the baseline fuel for testing all of the additives. The baseline fuel HFRR score of 636 would be used as the control sample. All additives tested would be evaluated on their ability to replace lost lubricity to the fuel by comparing their scores to the control sample. Any score under 636 shows improvement to the fuels ability to lubricate the fuel delivery system of a diesel engine ."

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caterpillar guy

04-17-2018 03:50:51




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
With all the old pumps on engines around here I don't see any difference from 40 years ago till now except for the regular wear over that time. Never have had a pump in for work yet. From 30's model cat engine to 21st century engines. Even our MD sets for a year at a time some years and no sticking or problems.



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dpendzic

04-17-2018 11:02:35




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to caterpillar guy, 04-17-2018 03:50:51  
Many of us in the Antique Caterpillar Clubs have found that the old style injector pumps with the individual plungers will sometimes rust and freeze up along with the rack assembly in the pump. I being one of them last year. So many of use have been adding oil to the fuel to give more lubrication and rust prevention. We also set the throttle at 1/2 speed instead of stop when laying up the machine for a time.

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dpendzic

04-17-2018 11:39:21




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to dpendzic, 04-17-2018 11:02:35  
my injector pump with no.2 and no.4 pumps hung up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy-jd5CrUKA



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JDEM

04-17-2018 05:11:31




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to caterpillar guy, 04-17-2018 03:50:51  
How many of your Cats have mechanical rotary-distributor pumps? Of those you say do, how many have been run 30,000 -40,000 hours on low-sulfur diesel?



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MarkB_MI

04-17-2018 03:08:32




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
Well, here's the number one hit on Google: http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2strokeoilindiesel.php (This is a South African site, but it seems they use the same diesel and two-stroke oil as we do.)

From the report: "The 50ppm Forecourt diesel passed the test by a decent margin with a wear scar diameter of 363 microns. Surprisingly, the 50ppm diesel with 2 Stroke Oil actually decreased the lubricity by around 10% with a wear scar diameter of 396 microns."

Now, there are plenty of other articles on the web that recommend adding two-stroke oil. But this is the only one I found where they actually TESTED the theory.

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Mark-Mi

04-17-2018 07:27:33




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to MarkB_MI, 04-17-2018 03:08:32  
Thanks Mark, for the link.



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Traditional Farmer

04-17-2018 00:04:03




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
I use it as I have seen a couple studies that say its about the best thing that can be put in diesel fuel to lube the older style injection pumps the rate is 1 OZ to 1 one gallon of fuel.
Some of the diesel additives on the market were useless too.



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Richard G.

04-17-2018 04:29:25




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to Traditional Farmer, 04-17-2018 00:04:03  
I agree. I have read studies that say that.
Richard



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4play

04-17-2018 00:00:53




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
I don't understand how people can think that today's diesel fuel has inadequate lubricity and then think adding 2 stroke oil is what the fuel needs. Do you just make up a certain amount of snake oil of your choice to put in the diesel fuel and all is ok? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is something wrong with putting anything other than diesel fuel in your diesel engine. If you really wanted to add lubricity then why not buy a product that has been tested and sold specifically for the purpose and not something that has been tested to harm the engine?
It's been over 25 years since they removed 97% of the sulfur in diesel fuel, and its been over 10 years since they removed most of what was left. Is it just a miracle that all these engines are still running after 10 or 25 years now?
Would anyone believe that modern ULSD has a higher lubricity now than the older sulfur containing fuel of 10 or 25 years ago?

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Oliver 500 Wa

04-16-2018 20:47:44




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Would the CAV pump on my Oliver fall into this category?



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Bob

04-16-2018 20:47:11




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
Won't hurt a thing!



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JDEM

04-16-2018 19:28:34




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
2-stroke oil added to diesel is a cost-effective way to get the lube back up to where it was 20 years ago in diesel fuel. For myself, I use it with any diesel that has a rotary-distributor injection pump. Ultra-low sulfur diesel has the lube cooked out of it and fuel sellers are supposed to put a lube additive into it before it gets sold at the pump. Even so, often new fuel does not have the lube the older fuel does.

Adding oil at a 1 to 200 ratio gives good protection.

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JD Seller

04-16-2018 19:05:55




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
On pre-emission engine the extra oil would help with some lubrication. In an engine with emission components running the extra oil can damage or shorten the life of the emission system.

I have tried adding oils to diesel and have never really seen any advantage to using it. I have used fuel conditioners and do believe them to beneficial.



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VicS

04-16-2018 19:02:52




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
I think it is cheap insurance for something that sets a long time.



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kruser

04-16-2018 19:11:34




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to VicS, 04-16-2018 19:02:52  
Thanks Vic



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hd6gtom

04-16-2018 18:48:42




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
If you are using premium #2 fuel you don't need anything added to the fuel. If you are using "truck stop - convince store" fuel you will need additives such as cetane improvers, lubricity improvers, anti algicide if you are going to store it for any length if time. In the winter I would add anti jell to it + extra #1 fuel. I have rescued too many guys and gals jelled up sitting along the road.

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onefarmer

04-16-2018 18:45:25




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 Re: 2 stroke oil mixed with diesel fuel in reply to TBA, 04-16-2018 18:34:56  
I use it all the time. I have a JD 4320 that when it gets hot I can't slow it down at the end of the field without it slow down to a stall. I then have to let the pump cool or take the cover off it and twiddle the linkage to start it. Since adding the 2cyl oil, no more trouble.



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