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Real farmers, and fellas that like to pose as farmers

Bruce from Can.

Bruce from Can.

Well-known Member
Location
Woodville, Ontario, Canada
There are fewer and fewer farmers every year, but
when I go to a farm equipment auction sale, a
dairy cow sale , a breed association meeting, open
house for a new barn, or a farm show, there will be
a large group that are ?followers ? . Most are guys
that where raised on farms, but took off farm jobs,
and still want to be in the farmer grouping. They buy
a heifer calf , or a yearling to show at the fair.
Maybe have a few acres, some might do a bit of
relief milking. When you go to a event, like a cow
show at the local fair, very few fellas that make their
living from the farm are there showing stock. And
the casual observer would get the impression that
there is still many farmers.
Most breed associations relies on these ? posers?
to keep the club numbers up and remain viable. I
wonder what things will look like in a few years, as
the number of farm raised kids dwindles, and very
few of the ?posers? kids have any interest. They
sure swell the crowds for now, lol
 
I think that's a very poor attitude to take and refer to such people as posers. The definition of farming is the activity or business of growing crops or raising livestock. It doesn't say on a large scale or as primary income. Would you rather future interest in farming be lost entirely so that you can hold your pride of being a "real farmer"? And who's to say the guy raising three cows this year and working a day job isn't going to expand and make it a full time occupation down the road, everyone has to start somewhere. And likewise if you had a few hard years on the farm and took a job in town to make ends meet should we kick you out of the "real farmers club" I think one great thing about the majority of farmers, obviously not all, is that they generally are excited to see and even help other farmers get started. Not sure where your sour attitude towards others in agriculture came from but I'm glad it's generally confined to a few arrogant big time operators who think there manure don't stink
 
Nearly every farmer around here has a 'real job' to pay the bills and get health insurance, and farms 200-1200 acres on the side as what they love to do and identify with.

Very few 'full time' farmers around.

My friend put up a small hog barn some years ago, and raises his own pigs. Maybe 125 or so in the barn at a time, I don't know.

At a producer's meeting they were teasing him and his small barn. After a bit, went around the table, and he owned more pigs than any one of them. They were all contract growers, and just rented barns and fed hogs, they didn't own any!

Different way to look at posing I guess.

Paul
 
Something about this reminds me of that putting the cat in the oven nonsense I got lobbed at me last week. I don't care for the poser term either. I have had two people in here this week for taxes who saw the SMTA out in the front yard (where no trees can reach it) and told me stories about growing up on farm. One actually used a SMTA. Both were offered that they could come out and help out anytime they wanted. We will see what happens. I see no harm in anyone who takes an honest interest in what I do. If nothing else they are good PR.
 
Bruce, I don't show cattle and never have but do relief milk. I have seen the cattle judging bunch since I was a boy in the mid 70's. John Lennon and Yoko had cows they paid way to much for not far from our farm. I have 2 pictures one was my neighbors farm a Dairy of Distinction. We went to the same school and we are the same age. His farm was multi generational I believe late 1800's. We both went out about the same time as well as another friend who had 90 milking and a real nice operation. I'm afraid before this year is over there is going to be more ex farmers.
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I guess I'd of been in that class for years as I had a great paying job and farmed with my father we owned everything 50/50 had over 200 head of beef cattle and owned and rented about
a thousand acres of land lot of 'real' farmers didn't have that much.And a big difference at a sale or auction I could write a check for what I bought no problem,that's one of the really good thing about being a pretend farmer.Funny thing when I took my cattle to sell they didn't give a darn what kind of farmer I was. Think some of you fellows fall under the heading of
'Misery loves company'(LOL)
 
I bet Pete Heffering had a hand in some of those transactions lol big tax haven at one time for the elite rich.
 
I don't know what the futures going to look like for sure but from what I see I likely won't fit in. Most of the younger guys here taking over the family farms are hiring immigrants to do all the labor and work the dirty hours. They mostly just manage and gofer working mon-fri 8-5. I do as much as I can myself than I hire extra help when there's too much. Not saying they're doing anything wrong because they're absolutely not but in my opinion if you only want to work those hours and not get your hands dirty so to speak why risk millions of dollars and not get a good career and possibly open your own professional practice of your liking. Just my 2c
 
You said, "Most are guys that were raised on farms, but took off farm jobs".

Traditional Farmer said, "I could write a check for what I bought no problem, that's one of the really good things about being a pretend farmer".

We have a guy in our neighborhood that drove a semi over the road for 40? years. Gone for a week at a time all of his working life. He now has the newest and nicest equipment in the neighborhood. I guess you could call him a "poser", but he's well respected around here. He worked hard for everything that he has, starting out with exactly nothing. On top of that, he's a super nice neighbor, and doesn't look down on anyone - not even me with my 60 year old poser equipment.
 
Agriculture is a business. It will become more like manufacturing, consolidated into a few big players, and no longer a family lifestyle. Sad but true.
 
I think the same can be said of any vocation; that there are those who aren't real this or that but want to keep their hand in it for whatever reason.
The "farmer" who isn't a real carpenter but might want to build his own shed.
Or the carpenter who aint a real mechanic but might put brakes in his pickup. Or the mechanic who isn't an attorney but might represent himself over a traffic ticket, or an attorney who fixes his own leaky faucet or the plumber who raises a few steers.
How bout the wife who isn't a real teacher but home schools her children.
It's ok for them to not be "real" at some sideline. I think...
 
Well I am not a real farmer so I guess I can't post on here anymore LOL. A 100 years ago you farmed for subsistence. Maybe trapped or hunted for a little extra money. Now you are not a real farmer unless you have at least 200 acres and a coupla 4wd tractors that can cover a field in four passes.
 
Philip, Absolutely a tax dodge! Kind of hard to compete with that. My father pushed for the ending of the tax abusers and one fellow called him a Neanderthal in the paper. I have a newspaper clip from one of my dads supporters. Dreamstreet farms had a lot of NYC investors and not in business any more.
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It's the same way with country folks in general,and to tell the truth,I find it real insulting. Let me tell you what I mean.

We tend to be quiet,diginfied,self reliant God fearing people. Somewhere along the way,society has decided that were a bunch of rude,crude,socially unacceptable white trash "red necks",so people who want to pretend to be country folks adopt the red neck mentality,thinking that kind of behavior will make them fit in. It makes the dirt bags stand out like a sore thumb and paints a huge bullseye on their backs among the real locals.
 
Something about this reminds me of that putting the cat in the oven nonsense I got lobbed at me last week.

Lobbed at you? LOL
 
Nothing wrong with followers or posers. It's not always possible to be a farmer first due to circumstances. So much can happen to interrupt the chain of generation to generation in farming. Often it is not the fault of the people who are alive and with us today. I know of a situation where a farmer had four boys and sensed nothing but fighting and jealousy coming when they became men in regards to who stays and who makes the orders. He told the boys he was selling in a matter of a few years and did just that. It should be said at the time which was the late 1960's he kept the honest reason to himself. Around here there is a lot of ground that flat out is not good for a continuous corn-soybean rotation so when wheat faded it reduced profitability to a point where it was much harder to make it. Myself, I would love to make a healthy non-farm income to be able to enjoy my life better and have less stress but this region has been on economic life support since the early 1980's. Followers and posers would often make for better neighbors than those that feel no connection to farming at all. You know the non-farm neighbors who feel your farm is their personal garbage dump or hunting paradise.
 
Real farmers go to auctions alone. Posers show up together in packs. LOL

I'm having fun with this whole post. ROFLMAO
 
Based on the USDA statistics the number of farms in the US really hasn't changed much in the last 40 years. Likewise, the average farm size hasn't changed much in the same time frame. Obviously there are some farms that get bigger and bigger but apparently at the same time enough new small farms are sprouting up to keep the average the same. The USDA's definition of a "farmer" includes folks who "big farmers" would maybe call "play farmers" or "posers" but why is that? Why wouldn't a person working 40 acres on the side and raising a few animals to sell not qualify as a farmer?
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Yes ding dong, If you put the cat in the oven you would not call it bread! Old Vermonter once said you lived here most of your life and was almost one of us!
 
Yep,like I told Dave last week,my ancestors came here in 1881,not long after the timber crews went through and clear cut everything,but there were already a few Danish families here,so we're just Swedes in a Danish settlement. LOL
 
RRL ....... in my own experiences, I have sometimes found that "God fearing" people are too often quick to look upon those who appear or think differently than they do to be labelled as dirt bags. Your post is a good example. Obviously, we're wandering off topic a bit.
 
Get it right randy we?re deplorables !!!! I was just doung some YouTube surfing on the topic of something that has just happened close to where I live and your right it? seems the general public thinks anybody who lives is the country is a biget and a stupid red neck .
 
A bit,but show some dignity at least. We don't have a beer in our hand every second of the day or fart in front of a lady then laugh about it.
 
I think you are correct. Its already hit Rodeo. There are very few real cowboys that grew up on a working ranch that are in the PRCA. Most of them are city kids that are sponsored by a company to rodeo. There is only one kid that I know of in my home town and he grew up in town.
 
I think you need to back off it is good to see people interested in say farm stuff or old tractors. I to have gone to stuff I have no connection to for me it was educational. To further answer your question the generation associated with this stuff has gone by in my area. Guess what a lot of it is gone by the wayside.
 
Well maybe "self proclaimed farmers" would be a better definition. We sure have a lot of people who have moved here with TOO much money and time, who have bought up acreage and want all the tax benefits offered to farmers, but put their land into conservation tax free trusts. I won't put my definition of them on here.
Loren
 
Just the opposite experience around my suburban neighbors for me,as the vast majority of them are real nice folks that often tell me how much they like the farm,animals etc and how I'm keeping it a working farm.When the goats are kidding I have a traffic jam at the driveway where the field can be seen from the road with parents and kids watching the baby goats.Good way for me to meet my new neighbors have a nice chat just enjoy life etc.One young lady was excited about the old tractors as her father had been some sort of executive at JD for a while.
Have met some very interesting people.Of course I don't suffer from Farmer Martyr Syndrome either so I guess that helps(LOL)
 
I would sure like to get in on this, but I would not know whoose side to take. I have 50 acres and a few cows, rent some hay ground, paid for everything working at factory, ain't a libtard, or god fearing. Drink a beer when I want, at home. I don't care who buys the old farm junk and tractors I enjoy trading. And most of the big farmers here either inherited or got theirs from somewhere else. And most that inherited have lost part or all of what they had given them. If anyone thinks they just have to live in a ordered, homogenous community, they are not being realistic about the modern world.
 
And that's great. The locals drive by during calving all the time and stop to watch the cows and calves. Some times I feel like that's my whole identity when I go somewhere and that's all people talk to me about is how much they love watching the calves. It gets a little uneasy after a while thinking that's all people see in me and not that I have thoughts and feelings,but there are far worse things to be famous for.

If you don't have the outsiders who show up with a rifle in one hand and a beer in the other,you're a lucky man.
 
Wow! I read all the comments with interest. Many of us are Jacks of many trades and Masters to varying degrees. I see no problem with that. We all have, or should have, varied interests and if we can derive income, benefit, or just plain joy from them that is great. As a culture that helps make us strong.

The "Posers" in my definition, and this applies to any occupation or lack there of, is the person "playing" while the spouse brings home the real bacon and health care (and others) benefits.

As a side comment, it is interesting how "health care benefits" have become the other currency.

Just my thought.

Paul
 
Bruce you should thank every single one of the posers you see. Without them the farm population numbers would be so low that no one in any form of government elected office would even listen to anything you said. In the US less than 2% make their living only farming.

I guess I qualified as your Poser definition for 20 years. I had a full time off farm job that sure helped pay the bills. The darn farming part sure did not profit enough to pay for itself and feed the family.

I had a farmer jump me at a farm sale when I was employed as a equipment salesman. He was mad that I was bidding on the equipment and driving the prices up for the "real" farmers. He sure was not complaining when I was buying his feeder calves from the sale barn to feed out. I bet he would not complain if I was bidding at HIS farm close out sale. So was I a farmer????

How do you define who is a farmer???? A class mate of mine started out with a house and barn on five acres of ground. He started farrowing hogs in that barn. In a few years he built a large confinement farrowing building on that same five acres. HE owned a skid steer loader, MF 65 tractor and a manure spreader. He did that until he was forty years old. Was he a farmer with only five acres of ground??? Di he become a farmer when he turned forty and bought 300 acres with cash across the road from him????

Your premise kind of made me mad. I welcome people to join in the farming life style. I think it is the best way in the world to raise a family. I do not care if it is a fellow with a single bottle calf in a pen in the corner of his yard. He is doing the best he can with what he has. The sad fact is very few farm kids can make a living farming. If I remember correctly two of your three kids work off the farm. If they get married and have some kids an raise a few bottle calves will they be posers????

Do we need to carry a copy of our Schedule F tax return to show we have so much farm income to get a bidder number at a farm auction?? Maybe get into a livestock show???
 
My neck is red from hours spent out ion the sun bent over working. As a kid, it was picking rock and pulling weeds. As a teen it was hammering nails into shingles on many roofs. When Jeff Foxworthy came out with his almighty list, so many of his traits fit me that the handle got assigned and has been a fixture since. If you ever see me with a beer in my hand, it will be because I am offering it to you.
For most folks, redneck is a vicious insult to fling. I wear it as a badge because narrow minded folks like labels. I'll save then the trouble of thinking; might hurt them, then I'd be blamed they had a brain cramp.
 
And if the work was all done,I'd drink that beer with you,but there are people around here who can't even go cut a load of wood without taking a case of beer with them because they think that's what your supposed to do.
 
I think we all have a history somewhere. My dad moved here to work in the auto industry, but back in the Grand Rapids area there is family still and a pretty interesting history going back into the 19th century. My aunt is big on that stuff, me not so much. We weren't the first, I am sure. So you can put a cat in the oven but you won't be making Danish? I dunno...lol. I have tax returns to do tonight and I am using this as an excuse not to do them!
 
Dreamstreet bred a lot of nice cattle but they were a tax haven for investors as well as Lylehaven from what I can understand?
 
Those totals might also include landlords who rent out their farm land. Every retired widow lady, group of siblings who share ownership, or group of investors who own farm land, that rent out their farm ground will file the farm income on a schedule F. If one guy rents ten farms owned by a total of 15 people, there are 16 people filing farm income statements from that one operation.
 
Philip, Bruce was mentioning a BTO near him that also had ties to Dreamstreet Holsteins. Funny how small the world is sometimes! I'm not mad at Bruce we all are entitled to our opinion. My neighbor was hoping my daughter would take a Brown Swiss to show but I don't think that's going to happen.
 
(quoted from post at 15:31:15 03/19/18) It's the same way with country folks in general,and to tell the truth,I find it real insulting. Let me tell you what I mean.

We tend to be quiet,diginfied,self reliant God fearing people. Somewhere along the way,society has decided that were a bunch of rude,crude,socially unacceptable white trash "red necks",so people who want to pretend to be country folks adopt the red neck mentality,thinking that kind of behavior will make them fit in. It makes the dirt bags stand out like a sore thumb and paints a huge bullseye on their backs among the real locals.
Click to expand...

Gee the real locals? Lets see. You got some of the respectable people around here that are long term locals. Then again a heck of a lot of the trash you talk of are long term locals or the kids of long term locals. Most of our outsiders? They move in, actually clean up a place. Have money to spend, don't do drugs, don't steal. Our worst actors here ARE the locals. Long term farmer here, oldest son pulling 20-25 in the big house. #2 son the local town drunk. His daughter a 3-4 time divorcee currently living with a drug user who steals to feed his habits. Them the locals who are so upstanding that you are talking about? SO what? You farm. Big deal! So do a lot of others, Here in the US about 3.5 million more than just you. You impede traffic, in some places illegally yet if a cop actually wrote you a ticket you'd try to make it sound like the cop's fault.

Get over yourself.

Rick
 
So you can put a cat in the oven but you won't be making Danish?

ROFLMAO I like it! Feel free to use it any time.
 
It's kinda like cowboys and urban cowboys. How do you tell them apart? Well, Cowboys have S-you-know-what on the [i:654c4848f0]outside[/i:654c4848f0] of the boots.
 
Whoa !! I posted this thread , then went to the barn to do night chores. It really took off in a different direction. I went to a high end pure bred cow sale last week. I recognized many folks that I new that took the day off work , don't own a dairy , and many live in town even . Yet they still want to be known as cattle breeders, and will board a animal some where and drag it around to shows. These are in my mind posers. To me they are no different than some one with a white car that has black doors , and wanted to be a cop. If I go out and stand in the garage, does that make me a car ? Just can't see why people want to do these things. Cattle shows are just like rodeos , more for entertainment than improving . Advancements in cattle breeding now work like this. A egg is take from a genomic tested heifer at about 9 months of age . Then fertilized with seaman take from a yearling bull , also genome tested and sexed. Fertilized embryo is implanted into a surrogate mother. the heifer calf is born before it's own mother can have her first calf naturally . The show ring doesn't mean a thing in improving livestock anymore. It is just another place to go and pose for the camera. Then get in your truck , with the farm plates, and head off to the cottage to relax.
You can be a farmer with as little as one acre , think green house or Mushroom farm, but you still have to produce a farm product.Not about the number of acres, just turning up some kind of farm produce. Fish farm, Marijuana farms don't have to be big to have a big cash flow.
 
You're right individuals making their own choices and living like they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else is what America is all about.In my area there is about the wildest mix of people
you could ever find anywhere and it all seems to work pretty good.
 
I think I would end up in the poser group. I only have 3 acres. Raise a few cattle for beef, raise a couple 4H hogs, and my daughter has 2 horses.

My dad worked for a farmer when I was little. I got to go to work with him on the weekends and when I was out of school. I fell in love with the farm and all the work that went along with it.

I could never afford to farm but I enjoy going to farm auctions. I don?t think there is any better way to raise a family then on a farm or in the country. I want my kids to know where their food comes from and have respect for people, land, and the critters they take care of.
 
Who cares why they want to do these things? I don't understand the high dollar show stuff, nor want to be part of it. If they enjoy it let them. I have a dozen tractors in the barn and really only need 2, but I like them, and don't expect anyone to understand why. I don't know why. Just do. There's a few that ask me why I even dabble in my little 160 acre operation. It's not for the money, that's for sure. I just like it, the same way these people like their show cattle.
 
I don't think that puts you in the poser group in the way that Bruce explained it. It just makes you a little unlucky.
 
We used to show cows years ago hoping someone might make a high offer on our girls. Showing doesn't have much or any place in the market anymore so we stopped years ago and we can't afford the high dollar genomic wonders of today. Why don't we show anymore? Because we're busy and there's no money in it. Why do other people show still? Because they enjoy it. No harm done. Ya gotta let people be people, small operators that long for a life they couldn't make happen shouldn't be anymore of a joke to people like us than we shouldn't be a joke to guys milking 500 or more cows.
 
I was/ am on your side.

You got us at a bad time, lot of 'anti-ag' folks out there, so you kinda stepped into things, maybe kinda called part time farmers who really are trying to farm under the same umbrella without meaning to?

I would say, the livestock shows themselves perhaps moved away from 'real ag' folks?

All hat, no cattle. That's a pretty old saying, so your thoughts are not new by a long shot!

Paul
 
(quoted from post at 15:52:27 03/19/18) A bit,but show some dignity at least. We don't have a beer in our hand every second of the day or fart in front of a lady then laugh about it.
Click to expand...

Now if'n you got rid of the corn cap and overalls....
 
You seriously have a problem with people who support your breed? Those 4-H kids and weekend farmers add a lot of value to the agriculture economy. I am always glad to sell someone one or two or five bred cows or one Bull. Remember, to the mega dairy owners/managers your just a irksome fly on the wall and they consider operators such as yourself to be impediments to efficient production.
 
good evening bruce, WOW looks like you kicked over a hornets nest here :lol: I will say i'm not a farmer, my main bred and butter is building and repairing welders and I make a living at it. I won't ever get rich doing it but I make a good living doing it. I got into the farming thing here at home on my 4 acres because i had local farmers cutting the hay here on my place mainly for the fire hazard issue, and to keep the place looking better than it was when i bought it. I got upset with the hay laying in big swaths getting rained on and turning black. i understand these guys where busy getting their hay cut and baled up on a LOT more land than i have, and that that took priority over my 2 plus acres of hay! so i started shopping and buying some haying equipment and gradually started taking over my little hay operation, started last year picking up another small field (3acres) looking at taking over another 4.5 acre field this summer. but i don't consider my self a farmer, do i like being out there on my tractor cutting and putting up hay? you bet i love getting out there on the tractor in the field cutting and baling hay! i enjoy every minute of it. i love working on my old equipment iv'e accumulated getting it all up and running and looking good. i'm learning something new every day working on my equipment, i learn something new every time i come on yt here, met some super nice folks on here, talked on the phone tonight with TJV IN MN. him and his dad farm 1800 acres mainly corn, he's shipping me a part i need for my m5, super nice fellow. TJV is in my opinion a real farmer, i'm definatly not, and i'm sure not trying to pose as a farmer.
 
(quoted from post at 15:47:54 03/19/18) RRL ....... in my own experiences, I have sometimes found that "God fearing" people are too often quick to look upon those who appear or think differently than they do to be labelled as dirt bags. Your post is a good example. Obviously, we're wandering off topic a bit.
Click to expand...

Crazyhorse, There are probably 500 "God fearing" posers for every real "God fearing" person.
 
Randy, Boeraon? Don?t understand?

I am not even a poser, I just play with old tractors. BTW, my mother?s family settled in Livonia, Michigan, in 1813. My grandfather was the last farmer, quit milking cows in the 50s. Even he had another business, that made most of the money. When he sold the last piece in 1963, the bulldozers were working within weeks. All a subdivision now. I?ve had some pretty good gardens, but don?t even do that much anymore. I gotta get busy.
 
I don't know if Boresen Farm's website is still up or not,but when it was,there were pictures of the BTO owner at cattle shows and with his NTPA pulling tractor,not of him actually working.

The thing about Irv was a reference to Irv Boersen. He's a member here,but he's not related to the BTO.
 
Maybe that tells you something about there friend circle then. I do agree to an extent about people milking the tax benefits like Loren says but besides that I am glad to see anyone involved in agriculture at any scale
 
OH wait! I know! According to some on here you ain't a real farmer unless you are milking your respective government for every cent in farm subsidies that you can :shock: :lol: :lol: ! Like unnamed folks in the Canada and MI ROFL!

Rick
 
I have gone into one my lengthy responses on this topic more than once, and also in this very discussion, but have opted to delete for my own reasons. In my case, like with many others, I could go into a long laundry list of reasons as to why may be viewed as a "poser" rather than a full blown farmer. I used to beat myself up for my not being the 5th generation to make a living off the family farm. I no longer do that. I spent a lot of years being very angry and bitter over that, too, and there are times when the "chip on my shoulder" comes into the sight of others, especially those who I chummed around with in my youth, and were able to get involved with farming, under circumstances which I did not have the fortune of attaining. I do farm on weekends and in my spare time. I enjoy it. It is my "therapy" from my regular job. I love putting the crop into the field and I enjoy seeing how the fruits of my labors and how successful my management decisions were during the prior growing season. To me, I feel most productive in that role. It took me nearly 20 years to reach the point where I could recognize that some things were not meant to be, and apparently I wasn't meant to be a full time farmer. Like others, we all have bills to pay. We have families to tend to and provide for. We do what we have to do in order to make ends meet, and with any luck at all, succeed in own way in life, rather than merely exist. So yes, I may be viewed as a poser of sorts. I also have a fleet of decent equipment that is bought and paid for, and I have nothing to be ashamed or, nor am I embarrassed in who I am, what I have achieved, because I managed to do most of it on my own. When I graduated from college in the late 1980's, all I had was a few hundred bucks in the bank, a 4 year degree, a job which paid $21,600 a year, a car with 142,000 miles on it, the clothes on my back and my closet, my college apartment furniture, and a student loan and some other minor debt amounting to about $12,000. So I could say at that time I had a "negative net worth." A year later I went through a "forced corporate move" which was difficult at best, so I took the next job I could find, which was too hasty of a decision. Looking back, I feel pretty darn good where I am at, what I am doing, where my kids are at, my financial security, and I DO have my farming situation where I am not subject to the drama of the ups and downs of agriculture, with respect to taking care of the needs of me and my family.
 
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