I have read many posts in the archives about freeing the steering on wagon running gears. So, far I have soaked each side with penetrating oil and have used an acetylene torch rosebud for heat. I really can't get everything hot at once. Used a sledge hammer on the steering arms to attempt to turn the vertical shafts. The two steering shafts are 1.5" in diameter which are inside about a 2" tube with 1/4" walls. I have taken the tie rods off. Center/tongue is not froze. Just each wheel. I really do not want to cut the wall of the outer tube open - just feel that it would weaken them to much. I recently JB welded some 6" lengths of 2" PVC pipes on top of the 2" outer tubes which I filled with marvel mystery oil and acetone to provide 24 hour soaking. After a couple weeks still no progress. So far I have not beat on the outer tube or the top of the shaft. I sometimes wonder if I could beat on the outsides to stretch the metal, then beat on the sides 45 degrees away to somewhat reshape the tube. I am about ready to take it to a welding shop with a BIG rosebud. Any more ideas??????
- Thread starter andy r
- Start date
flying belgian
Well-known Member
Just cut the outer tube and be done with it. You will not weaken it.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Slitting is the only fast answer but maybe a big tiger torch / weed burner on a bbq tank might do the trick. I did the dolly wheels on a few hay baskets, it did not let go until it was taken out and cleaned up. Sprayed all kinds of stuff in it but did no good.
Are there grease zerks on the tubes? I rigged a fitting, filled it with penetrating oil
(your choice of brands) then installed a zerk and used a grease gun to try to force the oil into
the spindle. I put a 1/8 close nipple in the zerk hole, bushed it up to a 3/8 or so coupling, bushed it back down to
a 1/8 bushing. Then I filled the "assembly" with penetrating oil, installed a zerk and coupled up the grease gun
and started pumping. When the grease gun started bypassing, I uncoupled the gun and placed the propane weed burner
near the spindle. Not so close to get it red hot, but to get it good and hot all over. After a while the heat
caused the oil to expand some it began to and seep thru. How long you heat it usually involves a can of pop or a cup of coffee. After removing the burner, I applied more grease gun force and
tried to get more oil into the spindle. I believe I had to use this method at least twice to get it loose.
Anyway, that's what worked for me.
(your choice of brands) then installed a zerk and used a grease gun to try to force the oil into
the spindle. I put a 1/8 close nipple in the zerk hole, bushed it up to a 3/8 or so coupling, bushed it back down to
a 1/8 bushing. Then I filled the "assembly" with penetrating oil, installed a zerk and coupled up the grease gun
and started pumping. When the grease gun started bypassing, I uncoupled the gun and placed the propane weed burner
near the spindle. Not so close to get it red hot, but to get it good and hot all over. After a while the heat
caused the oil to expand some it began to and seep thru. How long you heat it usually involves a can of pop or a cup of coffee. After removing the burner, I applied more grease gun force and
tried to get more oil into the spindle. I believe I had to use this method at least twice to get it loose.
Anyway, that's what worked for me.
Well using any type of oil on them just locks the rust into the spindles. You need a rosebud big enough to get the entire outer pipe red hot. Then hammer on the outside to knock the roust out and to stretch it some. Hitting the spindle on top will rarely work. It just usually mushrooms the top. Heat the tube while knocking on the sides to try and get the rust to fall out. QUIT spraying it with lube as that just locks the rust in. Then while hot along with knocking on the tube try working the spindle back and forth. I often take the wheel bearings off and find a pipe large enough in diameter to slide over the spindle. Make sure it is long enough to give you some leverage. Work on turning the spindle back and forth.
I have only had one in the last 30 years I could not get loose with heat and working it. I had to split the outer tube on that one. The trouble with that is you really run the risk of the tube shrinking when you weld the tube. The new weld will contract. This can bind the spindle. So I try and not cut them in possible.
I have only had one in the last 30 years I could not get loose with heat and working it. I had to split the outer tube on that one. The trouble with that is you really run the risk of the tube shrinking when you weld the tube. The new weld will contract. This can bind the spindle. So I try and not cut them in possible.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Your basic problem is the fact that when steel rusts it expands greatly. You have seen how anything that stays moist and keeps rusting will develop a heavy thick solid scale of rust that will resist wire wheeling. In that situation you remove it most easily with a slag hammer. The rust inside your tubes is under extreme pressure, so in order to relieve the pressure you need to get the tube heated red hot.
jon f mn
Well-known Member
You really shouldn't need to get everything hot. What I would do is heat the outside 1/3 to 1/2. Most any rose bud on an oxy/actelene torch is enough for that, itt just might take a while. Get it just hot enough that you start to see red, but not cherry red. Then let it cool. Do not fast cool it with water as that will cause it to shrink more. Then after its cool re-heat it and try working it again. Keep that up til you get it loose. You can peen the tube to try to stretch it, but be careful not to do too much.
The physics of heating iron are that it expands when hot, but retracts more when it cools. So any time you heat it it gets tighter when it cools. If you end up slicing it and welding it the weld will deffinately pull it tight when done. So that will require resizing the bore when done. Even with heat you can expect to need some work inside to make things fit, depending on how much wear there is.
The physics of heating iron are that it expands when hot, but retracts more when it cools. So any time you heat it it gets tighter when it cools. If you end up slicing it and welding it the weld will deffinately pull it tight when done. So that will require resizing the bore when done. Even with heat you can expect to need some work inside to make things fit, depending on how much wear there is.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
We had one like that. If you put a tractor on the tongue and chained the reach to another tractor backed in between the front and rear wagon wheels we could use the tongue for a lever to turn it. With the axle on a block so the wheel is in the air you can pry down with a bar while someone works the tongue sideways with that tractor. After getting it out I redrilled the holes for 2 grease fittings on towards the top and one towards the bottom After washing it out and using some emory cloth on the shaft and tube so it would fit right. Been a year or so since still works fine. I do need to tighten up the bushing holes in the tierods steering pins.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Helped neighbour reweld after slitting, no issues. Tacked each end first. They use a running gear to launch and retrieve their huge floating dock so it tends to have bearing and steering problems.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
It could have been worn, we had a chisel punch hammered into the slot when we tacked it so it wouldn't pull itself closed.
I've had the most trouble with contraction after welding doing large welds. Usually a few tacks and stitching on alternating sides so it doesn't get too hot works.
I know about the shrinkage as the bead of weld contracts as its my favourite bearing race removal trick!
I've had the most trouble with contraction after welding doing large welds. Usually a few tacks and stitching on alternating sides so it doesn't get too hot works.
I know about the shrinkage as the bead of weld contracts as its my favourite bearing race removal trick!
Super H Mike
Member
I had a couple of really tight ones on a gear I fixed up a couple years ago. I did a lot of soaking which didn't seem to help at all. I did a bunch of heat and cooling cycles which probably helped in the long run. What finally popped them was using a strong air hammer on the stubs and having another guy beat on the tubes with a BIG hammer. Once they initially popped, the penetrating oil, heat , tapping and working back and forth finally got it loose enough that I could drive them out. Took time and patience for sure.
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