The dead horse saga.....

Eldon (WA)

Well-known Member
Well I showed the farm last Friday and got good response from the potential buyers. They came back again today for a second look and had some questions. In the meantime, yesterday a customer calls to see if I had a backhoe to bury a dead horse. He is a tax lawyer. After our talk about the horse, he asked me how I was doing. I said we were planning on selling the farm and downsizing a bit. He got all interested and said if I wasn't in a hurry he would like to look into possible variances in zoning and sell off part as commercial, which would bring another $2-300K from the property. It sounds like he knows the right people to get things changed as he is working on similar projects right now. So...now we are torn between letting the property go for the right offer, or keeping and working on the rezoning....decisions....
 
I am willing to bet that anything you gain by splitting the property and selling some as commercial will reduce the house part an equal amount or more. Your not talking about 50 acres or some big area. Anything you take off is going to really effect the value and salability of the house.
 
"Possible" variances in zoning? As a county commissioner, I work with zoning issues all the time and it takes a pretty strong case with a specific reason for a variance to be approved. It's not as simple as waltzing in and saying you want a variance for this or that and having it approved.

We also work frequently with people who try all sorts of flaky schemes to try to sell their property for more money. The most recent, still on the table, is a lady who owns an unimproved 5 acres assessed at $38,000. She's trying to sell it, and can't get an offer close to that because of issues with the road past the property. So she wants the county to make some $150,000 worth of improvements to the road just so she can get a few more dollars for the property. Our zoning regulations clearly state that in that particular situation in order for someone to build on the property it would be the property owners responsibility to bring the road up to spec. In fact, the owner would have to bring the road up to spec at their expense before a building permit would be issued.

In this case, I predict the lady will try to sue the county, lose, and wind up deducting attorney's fees from the proceeds of the sale.

That attorney probably told a good story, but lawyers have their specialties. As a tax attorney he could be clueless about real estate law. Frankly, you could be sitting here five years from now trying to get a variance. I'd take what's on the table and run.
 
(quoted from post at 20:49:09 03/11/18) I am willing to bet that anything you gain by splitting the property and selling some as commercial will reduce the house part an equal amount or more. Your not talking about 50 acres or some big area. Anything you take off is going to really effect the value and salability of the house.
Possibly, but maybe not. The interested party has made comments about not needing this much land, but they like the house and shed. Lawyer thinks most around here do not see the value in land. Current residential zoning requires a 5 acre minimum to reduce the possible contamination of the aquifer that runs beneath us, most homeowners see extra acres as a liability that costs them money in taxes and upkeep. I make a fair amount of $$$ taking care of these 5 acre parcels. You have to realize that out here the land needs water and irrigation to be productive...and most 5 acre parcels do not pencil out for farming once you take into account the labor and cost of equipment. Most will be satisfied with 5 acres and wish they had a few less to take care of....
 
(quoted from post at 21:01:43 03/11/18) "Possible" variances in zoning? As a county commissioner, I work with zoning issues all the time and it takes a pretty strong case with a specific reason for a variance to be approved. It's not as simple as waltzing in and saying you want a variance for this or that and having it approved.

We also work frequently with people who try all sorts of flaky schemes to try to sell their property for more money. The most recent, still on the table, is a lady who owns an unimproved 5 acres assessed at $38,000. She's trying to sell it, and can't get an offer close to that because of issues with the road past the property. So she wants the county to make some $150,000 worth of improvements to the road just so she can get a few more dollars for the property. Our zoning regulations clearly state that in that particular situation in order for someone to build on the property it would be the property owners responsibility to bring the road up to spec. In fact, the owner would have to bring the road up to spec at their expense before a building permit would be issued.

In this case, I predict the lady will try to sue the county, lose, and wind up deducting attorney's fees from the proceeds of the sale.

That attorney probably told a good story, but lawyers have their specialties. As a tax attorney he could be clueless about real estate law. Frankly, you could be sitting here five years from now trying to get a variance. I'd take what's on the table and run.

My property is adjacent to light commercial property, 8 acres assessed at $4M with tax revenue of $40k per year! The school district is constantly crying for more money...I can't see why they would not welcome continuing the light industrial zoning and increase their tax base, especially since it is on an arterial road designed to handle much more traffic than it does. This tax attorney comes from a family of land developers, so maybe he has some ties to make it happen. I will see what he thinks of as a time frame and cost involved...and if we do not get the offer we want we may go that route. As I have said before, we are not desperate to sell, just looking at the options.
 
I'd definitely check it out,in my area an acre of commercial property can be worth a Million$ or more whereas if it was residential same piece around 50,000$.A lot depends on location of course.If you could get the whole place rezoned as commercial if its like it is in my area the land would be so valuable they'd clear your house and buildings off of it to build commercial
buildings.
 
With light commercial it would allow something like this which is down the road a couple of miles. .77 acre lots with this building sell for $750,000 and up. I could subdivide into 5 lots like this and still have the 5 acres with the house, probably sell the undeveloped lots for $75,000 pretty easily...
mvphoto12616.jpg
 
If that is indeed viable, there's a good chance you'll end up selling it to a buyer who intends to subdivide it. So it becomes a matter of whether you profit from it or the buyer does. If you think you want to subdivide it, it might be a good idea to take your property off the market; it's not easy to turn down a full-price offer.

My suggestion is to think seriously about how quickly you want to sell. Zoning variances take time and are never a sure thing. And of course it will take more time to find multiple buyers. If you can wait three years to move, I'd sure look into dividing the property.
 
Sounds like you live in a low Dollar$ depressed area,in high Dollar$ real estate areas almost always there are a couple/few developers that keep the local Gov't folks skids greased with the
green stuff with a President's picture on it and they can slide about anything they want thru the system quickly.
 
Across the road from me was a 400 acre plot, primarily bottom land, that was leased for the 40 years I have been here and who knows how
long before that...by the same tennant. Fast forward. Land comes up for sale. Developer buys it for a "song". Cuts it up into 1 ea. 50 acre,
1 ea. 30 acre, and the rest 15 ac. or less with 10 being the min. Sold out in about 6 months for about 2.5 what the county tax office was
valuing rural land (regardless of usage) which was up 2x from 5 years ago.

Purchasers wasted no time in jumping on it and getting development underway. Apparently land to purchase in small quantities is scarce
here and lots of folks want to get out of town and get some elbow room......pockets are full of money as evidenced by the purchase price
and the type of development that is taking place.

So sir, if you are in an area close to a large metropolitan area that is in the growth mode, like this one, listen to the lawyer!!!!!!
 
(quoted from post at 03:14:58 03/12/18) If that is indeed viable, there's a good chance you'll end up selling it to a buyer who intends to subdivide it. So it becomes a matter of whether you profit from it or the buyer does. If you think you want to subdivide it, it might be a good idea to take your property off the market; it's not easy to turn down a full-price offer.

My suggestion is to think seriously about how quickly you want to sell. Zoning variances take time and are never a sure thing. And of course it will take more time to find multiple buyers. If you can wait three years to move, I'd sure look into dividing the property.

I pulled my ads on Saturday, but feel obligated to look at a offer from the couple that have been looking at the property. If we can agree on a price we will probably sell, if not I will just have more time to move my tons of tractors and equipment across the road. It is amazing how much junk you can stuff into a 40 x 84 barn!
 
Not in our county. We basically have two opposing situations in the county. The eastern third is declared a water conservation district because of a shortage of ground water, and residences are limited to three per quarter section. Even at that density some houses experience an occasional water curtailment.

The western two thirds of the county taps into the Oglalla Aquifer and has ample water for center pivot irrigating. In that area some land is seen as too valuable as farm ground to waste on houses.

The dividing line is a river that runs north/south through the county. What compounds the problem is the east edge of the county abuts the county that contains Lincoln, the state capital. There is also a 1400 acre lake nearby. City folks flock out from Lincoln thinking they'll build an acreage near the lake. Some go ahead and buy property thinking to build on it, and then find our zoning regulations won't allow them to build. They then try to sue the county for "denying them the use of their land". We have three lawsuits pending right now. And our current zoning regulations have been in effect since 2007.

"Let the buyer beware" is the credo of the real estate business. The onus is on the buyer in any real estate deal to do his homework and determine that he will actually be able to do what he intends with a particular piece of property if he buys it.

One poor guy paid $480,000 for 80 acres of non-tillable ground, thinking he'd sub-divide it into eight 10 acre plots, sell six of them, and build houses for himself and his mother-in-law on the remaining two. After he'd bought it, he found out the adjoining 80 acres that make up the quarter section already had the entire quarter section maxed out on houses and our zoning regs wouldn't allow him to build even one house. A couple of hours of research ahead of time would have prevented him from making that blunder--but all he could see was all of the money he was going to make by selling the six plots.

The real estate business isn't for the faint-hearted. You can make big money overnight and you can lose your arse overnight.
 

In may part of Kansas that would be a no-brainer. If you can sell it for commercial, or even residential, development you will multiply it's worth several times over. I would sell to a developer in a heartbeat. Not necessarily a tax lawyer with no development record, but if your property has development potential I would sure find a good developer and have a serious talk before I sold to someone who only wants to live there and have a little farm.

I guess I didn't realize you were in an area that might be ripe for subdividing and developing, but good for you!
 

You get it rezoned and you have to go back for 5 years and pay the difference in property taxes between ag and commercial...

so be careful what you wish for... let the new folks rezone it...
 
In my county, a rezone requires 160 acres, minimum. We did away with "spot zoning" specifically to keep undesirable businesses from coming in, rezoning a small plot to meet their needs, and then destroying the surrounding property values and environment.

Theoretically, under spot zoning, someone could come it, have a small plot rezoned, establish a legitimate, friendly business--and then sell the property to a friend who would open a strip club or something similar totally out of place with the area. And there are no end of people who would do just that.

One of the first rules of this whole schtick is not everyone has the community's best interests at heart.
 
Goose,

So, the [i:654c4848f0]county[/i:654c4848f0] assessed her at a value that is too high, and she can't sell for near that because the [i:654c4848f0]county[/i:654c4848f0] road isn't up to snuff? Sounds like the county has been pulling a fast one for these years and she is justified in bringing suit.
 
Actually, I phrased it wrong. It's a perfectly legitimate ungraveled minimum maintenance road past her property. These roads are recorded and controlled by the state. By law, the county isn't required to provide a graveled road past undeveloped properties.
 
2 things to think about with that possible variance. First, it does not mean more money until you actually find a buyer for that ground, and # 2, you will be paying much higher property taxes until it is sold.
 
(quoted from post at 19:29:32 03/12/18) 2 things to think about with that possible variance. First, it does not mean more money until you actually find a buyer for that ground, and # 2, you will be paying much higher property taxes until it is sold.
Wow, some of you guys must think I just fell off the turnip truck LOL!
 
Goose's county sounds like they have their act much better together than my area.

Bunch of developments going in all around me. One area the lots are supposed to 7500sq.ft minimum and another the minimum was 6000 sq.ft. Got to looking at the plats and in the 7500 ft area there were a bunch of 6000 ft lots and in the 6000 ft area a bunch of 4500 ft lots. Asked the planning department about that and the answer was that the developer got a variance approved for smaller lots as long as he put some playground equipment over the stormwater infiltration areas. Developer gets 25-33% more lots in the development in exchange for a few thousand $ in swingsets and slides.

These little areas are deeded to the county and they call them parks. Of course there is not budget for maintenance. No irrigation so the grass is all dead and dry by late July. What kind of a park is that?

Three of those nearby developments (more than 150 homes) are accessed by the county road that goes past my place. This is a road that was put in in 1947 and pave in the 50s and is pretty much as it was installed back then. Developers are only required to improve the sections in front of their development. The rest of the road is looking like something from a third world country now. Asphalt is all busted up and pot-holed from the heavy truck traffic. ~17mph is all you can do on it without risking your car. The county road that the developers are using will have to be repaired and maintained at county expense, ie.Taxpayers, while the developer's actions just tear it up.

In one of my meetings with the developer on the project along my west property line he said "Kevin, the county pays attention to me, I'm the one with the money". I'm sure a fair bit of his money is greasing a bunch of palms.
 
Last time I checked, many, many years ago it was 7 years. Considering the change in pricing of rural property around here in the last 7
years, that adds up quickly. Unimproved ag. land is currently taxed at $1.75/ac/yr. If the same land were non ag. the annual tax would be
$184......source: my current annual taxes.

So taking $180 as the difference at 7 years and a quarter section (160 acres) would be quite a chunk of change: $201,600 just in tax
arrears. Something for a developer to think about. Course the trick is to sell it quick (within the year, or keep it leased in ag. while selling it
off), and letting the buyer (beware) do the tax paying....an option at closing....if he/she can sucker the buyer into doing that.
 
(quoted from post at 21:55:15 03/12/18)
(quoted from post at 19:29:32 03/12/18) 2 things to think about with that possible variance. First, it does not mean more money until you actually find a buyer for that ground, and # 2, you will be paying much higher property taxes until it is sold.
Wow, some of you guys must think I just fell off the turnip truck LOL!
ctually we thought the onion truck. :lol: Not knowing you personally it is hard to know how you think. We are just trying to point out things to think about since none of us are psychic enough to know if you are familiar with all of this, or just saw $$$ signs flashing.
 

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