Property Line Question and Pushy Neighbor

Howard H.

Well-known Member

Hi All -

We have ?one of those? neighbors in the community that is always pushing the line over on every side of every piece of ground they have.

We?ve put up with it for years, but the other day, they came by and tore down the electric fence we had on wheat. When we called them on it, they said ?get a surveyor?.

So Dad did - and here is the survey mark showing how far they pushed their grass onto my nephew?s wheat. They are over almost 40 feet on this side and about 15 on the other side where we also join them.

We are about to set some steel and cement corner posts and put up a barbed wire fence to hold the mark. This is in Oklahoma. We were just wondering - set the fence dead on the property line? Or set it back a little? If so, what is a normal setback?

Thanks for any advice!
Howard

Pic of survey - and how far their fallow has pushed onto us:

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Put it right on the line and use railroad ties at the corners and at least one set of rail road ties in the center
 
Better set the fence back a little even if it's just a few inches. If you get so much as a inch on someone else's property they can make you move it.

I have the same problem with a neighbor behind me. My place is wooded and when I cleared the land I left 75' of woods in the back as a blind in case the property behind me was clear cut. It turned out that is exactly what happened but the guy took down the property markers and bulldozed about 25' of the back end of my place. Worried about what else the guy might do back there I took three junk cars I had and parked them on the back of my property to keep him off my place. After several months I went back there and found the guy had filled all the cars full of bullet holes.
 
Here in Ccolorado,after several years(25?)the fence line IS the property line. Set the fence right on the line.
 
Its probably different here in Sask. but thought we were supposed to put the fence right on the surveyor's line. And the legal requirement was that each farmer left 8 feet of uncultivated land next to the fence. Having said that, I see a few instances where my neighbours are not familiar with that practice.
 
In Tennessee it is a good idea to set it back on your property a few inches. I set mine back 6. Here if you put it on the propert line it belongs to both of you. Here you do not need to worry that your neighbor can take your property because you set back the fence a few feet or 100 feet. It is called a "Fence of Convenience" vs a property line fence. There are lots of good reasons to set the fence back on your property. Maybe you want to mow the other side. Maybe you don't want to clear some trees. Maybe he has a fence and you don't want your livestock fighting with the neighbor's livestock. Maybe there is a big ditch on the property line. Here, in order to take property by adverse possesion you have to do it openly and notoriously. You have to notify your neighbor and then pay taxes on the disputed property for 7 years. How do I know all of this? I had land surveying in college and then years later got in a three way lawsuit over property lines, access, a county road, and flawed legal descriptions. It was a huge expensive mess. If you want to play hardball there are usually criminal and/or civil penalties for trespass.
Disclaimer-I am not a lawyer, seek legal counsel. I a just a land owner with burnt tail feathers. I won my case, but boy was it expensive.
 
Well I am a livestock guy so I always put a fence on everything we own. I am a firm believer in that a good fence makes good neighbors. LOL I have some that will split the cost and others that will not. I just build the fence and get on with life.

As for where to put the fence. Put it on the line. Then take pictures of your fence. I am willing to bet that your pushy neighbors will hit your fence with their equipment and tear it up. When they damage it take them to court ASAP.

I have a BTO on one side that broke the corner post off every year so he could drive in the road ditch far enough to cross over the road without taking his forty foot combine header off. Caught him doing it and took pictures. Asked him to fix the posts. He laughed it off. I took him to court and won the fence repair plus legal fees.
 
Indiana Honors Property Rights ,The Best Attorneyswillstate .All Surveys are APPROXIMATE and will vary somewhat from one survey team to another. Do Not go before a judge asking for a judgement if you do not have a Legal Survey done, more than likely The JUDGE WILL insist THat All Partys pay to have it done .after final analysis ,and if ammendments are needed , new measurements mite be recorded as law.That Is One Thing That CAN be challenged as time goes along ...best Thing I do with all my property owners is honor what we believe is correct and leave the lawyers , judges and survey teams alone .. but we tend to have sensible people in INDIANA.that believe in God , Family, Apple Pie and they know how to use a gun for hunting and hope they never need it to defend the latter 3 .
 
The information you need is readily available for free from your county's zoning board. Best to consult them so you are backed up in case your neighbour tries pushing the line again. If you rely on the replies here and you end up in court, it's not going to fly if you say...."well, they guys on the tractor forum said...."
 

Actually, a big windmill operation surveyed everything since dad had just signed a lease (total coincidence to this dustup) and then the surveyor we hired came in within 3 inches 2 weeks later.

So we are very confident legally of where the line is. It happens to be right on the Mason Dixon line and there are cement and bronze markers buried regularly all over the area with government surveys from way back, so I think the whole region is very well marked.

Just mainly a bit uncertain on how tightly to crowd the line, although over the years Dad said he?s found most of the really old corner posts to really be pretty closely right on the mark.

Dad is very easy going, but this really has him ready to fix the problem for good now.

Thanks for all the advice, fellows!
Howard
 

Thanks, Red.

I?m also checking in with a local lawyer friend that specializes in this,
but I?ve always said ?there is what they teach you in school? and then
?there is everything else you have to learn in the school of hard
knocks?.

I?m always learning something of the school-of-knocks variety from
the forums here and figured folks would have good additional advice
and stories of practical experience and wisdom.


Thanks,
Howard
 
(quoted from post at 20:41:12 03/11/18) In Tennessee it is a good idea to set it back on your property a few inches. I set mine back 6. Here if you put it on the propert line it belongs to both of you. Here you do not need to worry that your neighbor can take your property because you set back the fence a few feet or 100 feet. It is called a "Fence of Convenience" vs a property line fence. There are lots of good reasons to set the fence back on your property. Maybe you want to mow the other side. Maybe you don't want to clear some trees. Maybe he has a fence and you don't want your livestock fighting with the neighbor's livestock. Maybe there is a big ditch on the property line. Here, in order to take property by adverse possesion you have to do it openly and notoriously. You have to notify your neighbor and then pay taxes on the disputed property for 7 years. How do I know all of this? I had land surveying in college and then years later got in a three way lawsuit over property lines, access, a county road, and flawed legal descriptions. It was a huge expensive mess. If you want to play hardball there are usually criminal and/or civil penalties for trespass.
Disclaimer-I am not a lawyer, seek legal counsel. I a just a land owner with burnt tail feathers. I won my case, but boy was it expensive.

Howard, let me add to Blue's post with this:
When I was a kid, I destroyed a fence (yes, in Texas!) that I thought was being constructed a few feet into someone else's land. What I did not understand then (until it was explained REAL CLEAR to me! :shock: ) was, it's a good idea to build fences 3' to 5' inside the actual boundary. Reason being is, if you need to work on your fence, then you need to access it from both side, right? Well, how you gonna access it from the far side if you have to trespass to do it? I was told then that it is customary to allow for that variance -- then again, we had good neighbors.....plus one [i:b51ba92057]somewhat[/i:b51ba92057]-enlightened kid. *lol*

Now, if you have known and documented problems with a neighbor abusing that ease-way (for example, trying to grow his hay/wheat right up to the fence), then it would be fitting to post your fence every so often with a sign stating that the fence sits X-number of feet/inches from the property line, or to post property line markers along the actual line, or both. If possible, I would avoid trying to put anything "ON" the line, as there is always some slight amount of variance from one survey to another. By allowing an easement, if your neighbor damages your fence, that's destruction of private property, trespassing, plus any land damages involved. Also, as mentioned, the easement allows for mowing or maintaining the far side of the fence.

Please keep us posted -- is always good to be up-to-date on property line disputes, as others of us will never know when it might be our turn to defend our land or actions.
 
Go to your county courthouse, and see what they say, they should be able to tell where the fence goes from the surveyors markers. If they don't have the answers I'd talk to a really good real estate lawyer (you may have to if the other guy is a real pain).

If it were me I would put fence posts on my side of the survey stake (don't move the survey stakes).
 
IMO leave yourself enough room to maintain the fence from the other side.
If right on the property line then he can paint it pink on his side if it were a wood fence. Don't laugh this has happened.
He can also start stacking thing up against his side.
If you leave 6" to a foot then he can do that without coming on to your property,
I know someone who bulldozed 10" over the line and knock down some weeds. The neighbors sued for lose of wildlife habitat and won twelve thousand dollars. But that's NJ
 
I would build the fence just inside the property line, then plant a tree line on your side. If they give you trouble about the trees, you can say it?s a wind break to prevent soil erosion. A tree line can block of the sound and view of neighbors, also stops them from moving the property line long after the fence is gone
 
Well Howard I've read all the feedback and most say set back a little. But my opinion is the same as JDSELLER's "PUT THE FENCE ON THE LINE". Reason is this guy is pushy so give him an inch he takes 2. Watch him take out your fence then tell you it's in the wrong place. Then take him to court and ask for court costs as well as fence damage. And keep doing it!
 
All advice given is good but here is what is really wrong. It needed to be marked in the beginning and he needed to be stopped day one!
 
...And if/when the fence gets damaged or destroyed, will you be able to prove it was him? What if he has someone else do it for him? Things like this can get real tricky in court, [i:3bfa19eb2c]especially [/i:3bfa19eb2c]if the other guy has a sleaze-bag attorney!

I like the idea with the trees, but that's a lot of cost and work in addition to the fence - or in lieu of a fence. Still, if things get nasty (or nastier) and ends up in court, you'll need proof of who it was did the damage.

What you have now is proof that he has worked his land farther than he should have BUT, can you prove that he did it with malicious intent?
 
I am having a similar problem here on my farm in NJ. I thought I could just put a fence on my property line and solve the problem, but there is a local ordinance here that states that a fence must be 3ft off property line so the fence owner can service his fence without intruding on someone else's property. So before you go and do a lot of work putting up a fence maybe you should ask someone about any local fence regulations that may be on the books in your area. Of course in my TWP the locals do not enforce anything unless it goes to court or you happen to tic off one of our local politicians or one of his friends.
 
This is in Maine, and I imagine laws differ from state to state, but I went through this a few years back. Talked to a real estate lawyer and he told me a survey doesn't mean squat. If the abutting land owner disagrees, you're right back where you started. Defending a survey line in court could easily cost $50,000 or more.

Basically, he told me to build a fence where I felt the line was and make the OTHER guy pay to prove otherwise. Complete fustercluck.
 
(quoted from post at 01:23:45 03/12/18)
Thanks, Red.

I?m also checking in with a local lawyer friend that specializes in this,
but I?ve always said ?there is what they teach you in school? and then
?there is everything else you have to learn in the school of hard
knocks?.

I?m always learning something of the school-of-knocks variety from
the forums here and figured folks would have good additional advice
and stories of practical experience and wisdom.


Thanks,
Howard

You're on the right track. Get competent legal advice and follow the letter of the law. Put in whatever LEGALLY qualifies as PERMANENT BOUNDARY MARKERS in your area and have your lawyer send legal notice, or make it public notice (as in newspaper ads) to the surrounding land owners. Whatever you do, don't depend on internet rumor for good advice.
 
you need to follow the local laws not what you read here as that age old problem has different laws from state to state. What you read here does not always apply to where you live. IN iOWA the fence is on the line and facing across the fence your half is on the right. Other half bellongs to that property and they are responsible for maintaining and building it and thats the law here.
 
I would make sure I had a good legal survey then go along and drive posts on the line every 15-20 ft then I'd drop back off the line a couple feet and put up a fence.Then I'd send the neighboring landowner a registered letter with a copy of the survey and explanation of the posts and fence.That way you own the fence if you put the fence on the line he owns it as much as you do.Might string a couple strands of barb wire on the line posts too.
 

I am somewhat with traditional Farmer on this. It is apparent to me that in this unique situation that you need concrete and steel boundary markers not just at the corners but at easily seen intervals, perhaps every 100 yards, along the line. Then put the fence where the AHD tells you.
 

I am somewhat with traditional Farmer on this. It is apparent to me that in this unique situation that you need concrete and steel boundary markers not just at the corners but at easily seen intervals, perhaps every 100 yards, along the line. Then put the fence where the AHD tells you.
 
Survey is not proof. It is just a professional opinion. If you are lucky, the neighbor will honor it. If not, it would take a court order (at least here in MI), put in place by a judge, to make that survey line legally binding.
 
When you end up in court, make sure you take a copies of this YT thread with you. As long as most of the replies are in your favor, I'm sure the judge will ignore your local bylaws and land regulations and side with your YT majority. Take 5 copies, one each for yourself, the judge, your lawyer, your neighbor, and his lawyer. And don't forget to bring your cheque book, that lawyer you hired has to get paid.
 
Against the law in Virginia to move a survey marker so if the ajoining land owner wants to change what the survey says here they'd have to be the ones to go to court and show cause as to why the marker should be moved from where the licensed surveyor put it.A licensed surveyor's opinion in court is going to carry a whole lot more weight than just the ajoining landowner's
personal opinion.
 
Yes, and what happens when two licensed surveyors have two different opinions and two sets of boundary lines? I have seen that happen several times. In NY and here in MI. In fact, I just sold a 40 acre field and woods that had exactly that. Two side-lines, 30 feet apart from two different surveyors. It went to court and the judge made his own new line by court order.
 
I am not a real big fan of lawyers in general. But when you have a question regarding the law it's best to talk to one. You could regret getting advice on an old tractor web site.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 03:56:09 03/12/18) ...And if/when the fence gets damaged or destroyed, will you be able to prove it was him? What if he has someone else do it for him? Things like this can get real tricky in court, [i:e1dd5c9b0c]especially [/i:e1dd5c9b0c]if the other guy has a sleaze-bag attorney!

I like the idea with the trees, but that's a lot of cost and work in addition to the fence - or in lieu of a fence. Still, if things get nasty (or nastier) and ends up in court, you'll need proof of who it was did the damage.

What you have now is proof that he has worked his land farther than he should have BUT, can you prove that he did it with malicious intent?

KCM, the "law of adverse possession doesn't call for "malicious intent" but instead "use of it as if it were his" which is very different. I agree that this law could come into play here, but I see no way that the neighbor can verify seven years.
 
Maybe so but it'd be up to the ajoining land owner to get a new survey and go to court.In your situation I'd of gotten a 3rd surveyor as one of the two you already had didn't know
what they were doing.
 
Now that you have heard the coffee shop talk it is time to see a local lawyer to see what pertains to you. I will say that around here a licensed surveyor's work will normally standup in court. The other half to that is it might take him a little doing to find a suitable benchmark depending on the situation so the cost of the job might run more than what was expected. If a judge questions a survey job he will order a second survey perhaps by a different surveyor if suspects an issue of competency. After that point it is very seldom that a significant difference is seen in two survey jobs. The only way a wide variance becomes a lasting issue is because two benchmarks that are considered good lead to that. Then you get into state surveys from around 200 plus years ago and then that gets expensive to sort out. NY killed adverse possession around a dozen years ago so at least here nobody can stand on that leg. Before that was terminated there was all kinds of shenanigans going on with strong willed neighbors preying on others.
 
"Adverse possession" calls for just what it says. Adverse use. That means someone used the land against the will of the owner and the owner
let the person get away with it. "Adverse possession" cannot be claimed if a person used with permission, or did so without the owner
knowing about it.

There is also "easement by use or prescription."

These things are based on "Old English Law" but vary by location in the USA.

For the naysayers here - this is an "opinion" and not legal "advice."
 
Not always a case of one surveyor "not knowing what he/she is doing." It can differ a lot if in a new or old part of the USA. New York, for example, uses land-patent lines made by British surveyors in the 1700s and even late 1600s. Those original base-lines not always easy to find.

If you are in a state that is made of of newer baselines - like here in Michigan - it gets a little easier. That said, the State government of Michigan is in the process of re-surveying the entire state when it comes to government owned land.

I know of nowhere in the USA where a survey is legally binding unless a court says so. If you DO know of such a place, please give info.
 


Thanks for all the comments and advice. As I said below - I?m also checking in with a local lawyer friend that specializes in land law, but I?ve always said ?there is what they teach you in school? and then ?there is everything else you have to learn in the school of hard knocks?.

I?m always learning something of the school-of-knocks variety from the forums here and figured folks would have good additional advice and stories of practical experience and wisdom.

Both surveys turned out within 3 inches of each other - and the surveyor had actually had run-ins with this pesky neighbor before, so he was documenting it all into his own "Pearl Harbor" file as he did it. There are buried government survey markers most every section out in our country, so I think this will be pretty cut and dried. The one that anchors this section is right in Dad's front yard.


Thanks again,
Howard
 
If surveys didn't have legal standing and were just another opinion no one would ever pay to have one done,not the same as a court order but then again a court order can be appealed so I
guess you think that means nothing either? A survey will carry the day until its disputed and a judge says other wise.We just went to court about a water line easement across a joining
property to one of our rental houses the owners of the land had dug into the line and cut the electric line when the easement was clearly marked.Guess what the 1st thing the judge asked for?
A copy of the survey that pinpointed the line. He ruled against them mostly because of the survey and then awarded us damages and the cost of the additional survey we had done to prove the case in
court.So yes I'd say the survey had legal standing the judge thought so anyway.
 
Best advice, get a liar err lawyer. In fact, get two. If you know whom he might use, and if that liar is good, but less than stellar, hire him for some other work, such as a contract. A $100 retainer can go a long way. Had that done to me. Guy knew who my lawyer was, then hired him for something cheap so that when it came time to evict him, I had to hunt for an attorney.
The old tradition was to meet at the line center, then each owner would go right. If OK is that way, what is in the picture is his fence to maintain.
 
Put it dead on the line. If you don't, then years later they will claim the set back ground as theirs. Here in Missouri they have a deal called " rights of adverse possession" If a fence is in one place for 7 years, even though it is wrong, then it becomes legally the line. There are some stipulations, the fence has to be out in the open, visible, and no one contests it for that 7 years.

We had a neighbor claim some ground, 4 or 5 acres, where they highway had changed back in the 1930's. Old man across the road didn't want to mess with the sliver that ended up on our side, so he just told my great grandpa to "keep it". We had an old neighbor, born in 1910 who remembered the conversation. Anyway, since the fence had been in one place all those years, the guy claiming the land had to go through the paperwork to give us clear title to it.

No not fail to set the fence right on the line.

Gene
 
(quoted from post at 05:10:43 03/12/18) I would make sure I had a good legal survey then go along and drive posts on the line every 15-20 ft then I'd drop back off the line a couple feet and put up a fence.Then I'd send the neighboring landowner a registered letter with a copy of the survey and explanation of the posts and fence.That way you own the fence if you put the fence on the line he owns it as much as you do.Might string a couple strands of barb wire on the line posts too.

I like this idea. Main thing, check local laws. Also, what does FSA show on their aerial photographs?? That can give you a little help maybe. What I said about "adverse possession" may have changed, that was in MO. and 35 years ago.

Good luck, Gene
 
RE: . ."If surveys didn't have legal standing and were just another opinion no one would ever pay to have one done .."

Note I never said just "another opinion." I stated that a survey is a "professional opinion."

I see a difference. If you do not, I think you are in trouble.
 
Adverse possession laws are still in effect in Virginia,almost as bad if a person uses your land for a given amount of time for something adversely(you not giving expressed permission) they can
be awarded continued use of the land for that purpose.Hiking trails have come up as an issue for example and access across private property to Gov't parkland.
 
"Adverse Possession" is from "Old English Law" that predates the USA. If someone wants to claim it, he/she has the burden of proof and has
to show the owner knew about the use and did nothing about it.

"Missouri state courts continue to enforce a fair result when one owner has neglected or forgotten about a piece of land while another has
been using or caring for it for so long that to make that person leave would seem unjust, or create hardship. In other words, if a
trespasser spends enough time caring for a piece of property that the true owner has neglected or even forgotten about, and the true owner
makes no objection, a court might award ?ownership? to the trespasser.

Of course, there are some hurdles to clear before someone can claim a piece of your Missouri land using this theory. For one, the burden of
proof to establish a claim of adverse possession is on the trespasser. In other words, if you hold legal title to a piece of land, you are
its presumed owner until and unless the adverse possessor can come up with enough compelling evidence and arguments to convince a judge to
grant ownership over all or a portion of it."
 
A judge's order is just 'a professional opinion' unless its decided by the US Supreme Court under your standard because any other ruling can be appealed.
And why would I be in any trouble regardless?
 
If you put a fence in Make sure it is 6 inches on your land, that way if he takes out poles with his equipment he has to pay. If it's on the line he owns half the fence and can let it get run down. Just my 2 cents worth. I like the fence on my property that way if you hit my fence you were trespassing with out question
 
And for that matter- even the Federal Supreme Court is based on just another set of professional opinions.

Putting that aside - back to my original point that you mis-cited.

A survey done by a licensed surveyor anywhere I have lived - is not legally enforceable. You cannot call a cop and have someone thrown off land based on a survey. At least not if the law-person is following the letter of the law. However - if you have a court order showing property lines - a law enforcement official can remove someone from the property. Again, I am referring to my personal experiences in the states of NY and MI. It might differ elsewhere.
 
(quoted from post at 05:37:00 03/12/18) When you end up in court, make sure you take a copies of this YT thread with you. As long as most of the replies are in your favor, I'm sure the judge will ignore your local bylaws and land regulations and side with your YT majority. Take 5 copies, one each for yourself, the judge, your lawyer, your neighbor, and his lawyer. And don't forget to bring your cheque book, that lawyer you hired has to get paid.

Crazy, Howrd H has been on here since 2002 and has over 2000 posts, so I am certain that he knows exactly what he asked for and exactly what he is getting.
 
.....A survey done by a licensed surveyor anywhere I have lived - is not legally enforceable. You cannot call a cop and have someone thrown off land based on a survey. At least not if the law-person is following the letter of the law. However - if you have a court order showing property lines - a law enforcement official can remove someone from the property. Again, I am referring to my personal experiences in the states of NY and MI. It might differ elsewhere.

May vary from state to state. I had no problems getting the local police to clear out transients from my former employers property. Simple process. I'd call the Police and they would come out and tell the folks they had to vacate. They'd hand out cards directing them to places they could go for help. Come back the next day to verify they were gone and if not, cuff em and haul away.
 
That is where it is important to check any applicable state laws where you live. Some places call for a 3 foot setback so the fence's owner can do maintenance w/o being on the other landowner (in theory).
 
As typical ask a legal or an electrical question here and everyoneeeeeeeeee lol including myself crawls out of the woodwork and offers their well intentioned opinion (a great bunch of gents here all willing to help), but don't bet the farm on ANYTHING posted here be it lay or professional ABSENT A THOROUGH REVIEW AND KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THE FACTS AND YOUR STATES LAWS.

That being said my free professional legal advice is to consult a local competent trained professional BEFORE you do anything and don't hang your hat on ANYTHING posted here (me included) as this is a specialized area of the law and different states can have different laws and practices and no one here has heard BOTH sides of the story and aren't experts (I'm SURE NOT) in your states property laws and boundary disputes...........

FYI a licensed surveyor DOES NOT make law or necessarily (but subject to local statutes) determine boundary lines in dispute THEY ARE COMPETENT TO FURNISH EXPERT OPINION and then ONLY a court of jurisdiction can render a legally binding decision regarding a litigated boundary dispute.

FYI some states have a "Legal Survey" statute whereby a property owner can serve proper notice on a neighbor that a "Legal" Survey is to be conducted and if all the requirements are met and it's filed with the Court THE RESULT OF THE SURVEY CAN RIPEN INTO A LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE AND BINDING BOUNDARY !!!!!!!

FYI The common law of "Adverse Possession" is alive and well in many jurisdictions and maybe even codified in some and may well come into play in your situation, but ask a local trained professional about it versus anyone here. At Common Law the requirements to sustain an action were the use must be something like HOSTILE,,,,,,,,,OPEN,,,,,,,CONTINUOUS,,,,,,,,,EXCLUSIVE,,,,,,,,,,,ADVERSE,,,,,,,,NOTORIOUS and for a statutory time period such as 10 years. In a nutshell if you allow such open encroachment by your neighbor for a long enough time you risk loss of that property !!!!!!!!!!!!

FINAL FREE PROFESSIONAL ADVICE DO NOTTTTTTTTTTT LET THIS GO ON BECAUSE THE LONGER YOU ALLOW IT THE WORSE IT GETS FOR YOU

Talk to a local competent trained professional land use attorney and at least consider taking HIS or HER advice instead of ours lol but its your land your money and your decision none of ours

John T BSEE, JD Attorney at Law
 
I can tell you what I did. I had a neighbor who was trespassing even worse than yours. He was more like 50 feet into the farm on the east and south borderlines. There was a copse of trees on the south and he was dumping concrete trash there. He put a tree stand a quarter mile back into my property and, lastly, cut a trail for his kids motorcycles up the center of a field. Tried to be nice, he wanted none of it. Flat out refused to stop. I put a wire fence up. Right on the lot line. He stayed in the house but the little kids were out in the yard yelling at us to get off their (my) property. That fence lasted about two days before I found portions vandalized. We had another talk. No good. Finally he sold the house to a nice couple and moved on. But when the nice couple decided to sell two years later I had had enough and bought the place myself. The neighbors left are the remnants of families who farmed there years ago. I let them trespass. They do no harm other than poaching mushrooms. I don't see $50 in morels being worth going to war over.

In your case I would run a fence up that line and then plow the weeds under. Be ready for fireworks, but hope for the best. A survey DOES define your legal property. He can go to court if he doesn't like it. Not a good thing to do but you really have no choice if he sues. You must defend your property.
 
Yea those Socialist run places are a lot different than things are in the South,I contribute to the campaigns to the local sheriff in each county I have land too.
 
A newcomer tried that on an old neighbor several years ago. Had it surveyed and the stake was about 15 feet over on George and ran back on an angle. George got a lawyer. The judge said if that old fence had been there for more than a certain number of years,it was the line and he stopped the new guy from putting up a fence there.
 
Dad had the same problem a few years back when the son of a neighbor took over his Dad's operation.
After telling the kid 2-3 times, Dad got it surveyed and built the fence three feet on his side, just to cover
any mistakes.
 
(quoted from post at 09:35:09 03/12/18)
(quoted from post at 05:37:00 03/12/18) When you end up in court, make sure you take a copies of this YT thread with you. As long as most of the replies are in your favor, I'm sure the judge will ignore your local bylaws and land regulations and side with your YT majority. Take 5 copies, one each for yourself, the judge, your lawyer, your neighbor, and his lawyer. And don't forget to bring your cheque book, that lawyer you hired has to get paid.

Crazy, Howrd H has been on here since 2002 and has over 2000 posts, so I am certain that he knows exactly what he asked for and exactly what he is getting.

Thanks, ShowCrop! ha

Yes - I well know. The forum is about like the coffee shop. You have to separate the worthless chatter from great advice! ha..

Thanks again,
Howard
 
Agreed, sometimes you are just looking for a place to start. Do you start with a lawyer, the county assessor or a survey?
 
RE your comment . . "A survey DOES define your legal property"

In my experience, a survey does NOT define property. It describes it with a professional opinion.

If you know othewise - please cite even one example where a survery is legally binding with no judicial invervention. Certainly does not work that way in Michigan or New York. Maybe somewhere else. the following from a Michigan legal database.

"Michigan law recognizes three kinds of acquiescence vis-?-vis boundary lines. The first is acquiescence for a statutory time period of at least 15 years, which means that when two adjoining landowners have treated a particular boundary as the real property line for at least that long, whether or not they have engaged in a dispute about the issue, a court can find that the boundary is at that place, even if it is different than that measured in a survey or described in a deed."

"The second theory is acquiescence after a dispute and agreement, also called the doctrine of practical location. When adjoining property owners have a boundary line dispute, but resolve it by express or implied agreement that sets a particular line as the boundary, that line becomes the true boundary if they treat it as such over time. Practical location depends on the actions of the parties, not on whether the acquiescence lasts 15 years, so that length of time must not necessarily be reached under this theory."

"A Michigan boundary dispute may be resolved either by negotiation between the parties involved or in court such as in a lawsuit to quiet title. Acquiescence is one important legal theory such a plaintiff may assert, among other possible theories like adverse possession, easement by prescription, equitable estoppel, mutual mistake and others."
 
I would say start with the surve. 2 if things dont match up and probably will not then a 3rd survey. Then the tax department that probably will not be the assessor.
 
I was Told by a prominant Washington Co , Ind .Att ,.. 1st name is John .bet you know him ,..No Judge Worth his salt would approve adverse possession to a hostile neighbor that took and took after numerous objections by the neighbor he muscled over ... My Case in point ,,.i have a bully like that, that refused to honor his own survey,.as long as the recipe for all the property's remain as wrote.and no ammendment is made . . i going to wait til the sorry s-o-b dies then fix it ..he hired a doubleazwhole att. that knew how to ask thestupidist questions that he knew dam well the answer ,just to crank up professional hours.
 
One of our neighbors is in dispute with another over trees. I believe the setback for trees is supposed to be way farther and that of a
fence.
 

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