Brown Swiss

Well-known Member
Well suv, the wife wants a SUV! LOL Looking for a different vehicle, are the new cars worth the price on them, the old 2003 Olds Alero she has been driven has about had it. I'm kind of cheap but local dealer has a new Chevy Trax for little over 20,000, front wheel drive only. Might go take a look at it, been buying used before but don't get many miles on before needing some work and with me getting a job I don't have the time to go running around cause of problems.

PS I didn't mention anything about tractors for the police to get there nnalert in a bunch! LOL
 
Look at a 15,000 used Subaru Outback. 4X4, Heated seats, heated wiprer rest, heated rear view mirrors, and much more. Made in Lafayette Indiana with 80% USA parts. Jim
 
Go get a Honda CRV or HRV model if you want an SUV, they are the most reliable out there. We have a fleet of them in the family.
We used to run a lot of GM's but got tired of working on them all the time.
 
screw all yOU rice burners luvers ,,.Keep your . JUNK ,,.Give Me a lincoln or aMarquis or a Crown Vic that was built over10 yrs ago ,.,. I Feel Safe in a Lincoln on the road around all the idiots that drive like maniacs . 22 miles to the galloon feels ok to Me .. And i have asmooth ride
 
Olgen ...... had a good laugh reading your diatribe post .... and once you get your blood pressure back to normal and your eyes are focusing a bit better, read the link below. Granted this is for 2017 but I suspect the list wasn't too much different ten years ago. Meanwhile, a lot of those rice burners you refer to are now built on this side of the pond. Just thought I'd help catch you up on what's been happening in the auto industry over the past 40+ years.
2017 Auto reliability rankings Consumer Report
 
We?ve got a few of the made in US outback?s in the family. Great vehicles. Get an older 6 or newer 4 cyl and no timing belts to mess with.
 
Except the Subaru engine oil burning class action lawsuit ! My sister had one of those a 2013 ? she now has the 2016 ? It is nice enough, but We don't have the track record with those.
 
I have seen and heard that with several people. Love their Subies!
That full time 4X works very well. Here is something crazy. Subaru
vehicles are not a real good seller in Japan. I dont remember if it is
60% or 80% of them are exported. Close to 60% go to the USA. The
story was on NHK TV from Japan.
a254095.jpg
 
Olgen ...... I'll say one thing about your Crown Vics .... they hauled a lot of bandits to jail in the back seat comfortably!!!
 
I will give you reliability all day long in a town car, grand marquis or crown vic. I LOVE them. Drove my 94 towncar 180k and it still ran great but the power windows were shot and so was the air conditioning and I wasn't going to waste money on that. My 04 grand marquis has 201k and is going strong.......that being said I WILL not leave the garage in winter driving conditions with it. Give me one of them all wheel drive anythings any day. Went to the auto show last year and it seemed to me if you wanted a car to be built in the us and have us parts you had to get a Honda or Nissan or Toyota or most any "foreign" make.
 
the honda is a good vehicle. you may also want to take a look at a hyundai santa fe cross over. good car for the price. if you need it, go with the awd. the santa fe is more like a station wagon. we use a santa fe and a crv here at the shop in our loaner fleet. both awd.
 
I have a 2015 Trax LTZ AWD. I like it. Usually hangs in 30 mpg. Do not get the LS model as it won't have the creature comforts like the cruise control. I have 40 k on mine with no problems.
 
Did Subaru ever get their act together? Ten years or so ago, I fixed a Subaru that had been in a fender bender. The metal in the front fender was so thin I couldn't even use standard body tools on it, I just worked the metal with my fingers.

I finally miked the metal and found the sheet metal in the Subaru front fender was .012" thick compared to .034" for a typical Chevy pickup fender. The moral at that time was if a Subaru and a Chevy pickup have a confrontation, guess which one will lose, bigtime.

I said at the time that Subaru needs to be prosecuted for impersonating an automobile manufacturer. Maybe they've improved since then.
 
The Missus and I just got a new jeep Cherokee limited 4x4 (not the grand) with a v-6 and we love it.
 

Per that chart, monthly production in Japan for export is about 45k.
As a side note, Lafayette, IN is building about 30k per month, exports unknown.

Japan is in the business of selling vehicles worldwide and since Lafayette is their only other plant outside of Japan, their exports of vehicles built in Japan should far outweigh their domestic sales.
 
I think the mini suvs or crossovers are a perfect match for ladies. They are smaller than the regular suvs which will make them easy to handle. Ford is making a suv next year with a 330hp v/6 engine with the suspension to go with it. They said the women like them but wanted more power out of them.
 

I was a died-in-the-wool Ford guy for many years until they told me that they didn't want my business any more.
 
I was in a head on collision with a drunk driver who hauled it into my lane. Fairly even speeds making a closing speed of 80-90 mph between the two vehicles, no braking. I was in a ?paper fender? Subaru and he was in an S10 blazer early 2000?s vintage almost double our weight. Both vehicles obviously write offs. All the doors worked on the Subaru, some of his doors jammed. Both had front bumper at firewall pretty much. Lot of injuries in both vehicles occupants but no fatalities.
 
I think you mean the run of head gasket problems they had early to mid 2000?s? Yes that?s done. We?ve got near 500k miles on the 2.5 generation that are known to be bad for that. One had head gaskets done at 200k miles before we got it. Never an issue with the rest. Had to change oil rings behind oil pumps. Done several cv axle shafts. Changed driveshaft U-joints and struts.
 

If you want a car that will last over 100,000 miles, don't by a Subaru. They will have head gasket problems and are expensive to fix. I was asking a friend about his last week and found out it had been in the shop for 2 weeks... he got lucky, they covered it under warranty. When we bought our CRV, the dealer said they will not take a Subaru with over 70,000 miles on them in trade anymore after getting burned on them. Even at that, they are like the #1 selling SUV in the northwest, go figure...I've heard them called lesbyroos a lot, LOL!
 
Wife liked her old style Jeep Cherokee (solid front axle, floor shifter on transfer case) but it rotted out. Next I got her a small pickup, as she used her Cherokee like a truck. She didn't really like that. I was about to give up on pleasing her, when we went to try a Jeep Compass and Patriot. She can't be separated from her Patriot now. Finally, the perfect vehicle for her. Good size for a small person. AWD, so she doesn't have to wonder whether to run it in 2, or 4 WD.
 
I have had 4 of them from 83 through 2001 (still do) they are not rusted out. and drive well. 200K+ on all of them. (all are manual trans, but there is no problem with their automatics. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 15:51:22 01/18/18) Showcrop-I, and I'm sure many others, would like to hear why Ford told you they didn't want
your business, any more.

I put a lot of effort in 2005 to insure that the F-350 with 6.0 was not going to give me out of the ordinary problems. I knew plenty about the problems with the '03s and the '04s, so through the dealer I had conversations with some regional Ford people, who assured me that all of the problems had been identified and corrected for 2005. Well we know now that this was not true and I paid for major repairs 64 months after buying the truck. They knowingly misled me to get the present sale at the risk of losing future business.
 
Just a note to add to the "foreign / domestic " discussion below: I have hauled auto parts a good bit in years past. These foreign name tag assembly plants are exactly that. ASSEMBLY PLANTS. I hauled many a load of import parts into or for those facilities. And remember: American brands put money in American bank accounts. Where do foreign profits end up?
 
Wife has drove ford explorers for years but went to FORD EDGE in 2016, 36,000 miles and sure does love it. Not one problem and gets good gas mpg.
 
Do your foreign vehicles pass the WW3 test! NO! When the next big war breaks out, will those assembly plants be used to make American war machines. NO! Sadly that probably includes Chrysler, as they are owned by a foreign company now. Dealer parts will not be available either. We just bought a 2016 Traverse.
 
I know a guy that has an automotive machine shop. One of the last few around. Every time I stop in to visit, he has a set of Subaru heads on his workbench. He told me that over half of his work is Subaru valve jobs. Apparently, their engines are not all that great.
 
(quoted from post at 20:13:12 01/18/18) Do your foreign vehicles pass the WW3 test! NO! When the next big war breaks out, will those assembly plants be used to make American war machines. NO! Sadly that probably includes Chrysler, as they are owned by a foreign company now. Dealer parts will not be available either. We just bought a 2016 Traverse.

Oh good grief.
 
(quoted from post at 20:01:09 01/18/18) Just a note to add to the "foreign / domestic " discussion below: I have hauled auto parts a good bit in years past. These foreign name tag assembly plants are exactly that. ASSEMBLY PLANTS. I hauled many a load of import parts into or for those facilities. And remember: American brands put money in American bank accounts. Where do foreign profits end up?

How many years ago was that??

A Cars.com assessment this year (2016) determined that the Toyota Camry, assembled at plants in Kentucky and Indiana, is the most made-in-the-U.S. car you can buy. The Honda Accord was a close second.
No matter which manufacturer you select, buying a new car entirely made in the U.S. is, in fact, impossible.

Of the more than 450 vehicle models sold in the U.S. for the 2016 model-year, [u:ef88737e30]none[/u:ef88737e30] was manufactured using parts made only in the U.S., according to American Automobile Labeling Act figures provided by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
No matter what vehicle you buy, you're supporting the economy of a foreign country.
So yes foreign label carmaker profits go back overseas.
But how many hundred(s) of thousands of USA workers are making a darn good living working for them and their suppliers????
And you were one of those workers way back then too.
 
I think all Subaru's only turn left,or that the joke around here. They all have save the planet or rainbow stickers on them! They seem to be the car of tree huggers and alternative lifestyle people.
 
They also have a very nice sound system too. Think they have 8 inch speakers in the doors. Very smooth base. Not thumpy. Trouble is they are locked to the vehicle. Can't hook one up out in the shop or anything.
 
After consistent bad luck with Fords and GM; even the expensive ones, I have switched to Toyota and Hyundai. I am very pleased with both. I currently have a Toyota pickup and a Hyundai Genesis car. No way I am going back. I always buy new vehicles and run them a long time. It would take too long to tell you all of the experiences that I have had with so called American made vehicles.
 
We bought a 2015 Mazda cx5 awd for the wife to drive. Had 40k on it. Wanted something with decent milage,awd and good reviews. Narrowed it down to these, honda crv and chevy equinox diesel. Had to get new with chevy and was kind of gutless. Didn't like the cvt transmission of the honda, so went with the used Mazda. Gets about 27mpg and we've put 10k on it. So far so good except for the already junk Panasonic battery I had to replace a couple weeks ago.
 
We had an 02 legacy with head/head gasket problems among many others. It's been gone for 8ish years and I still hate it. Wife hit a deer and totaled it. Best thing for that car.
 
If you're considering a Trax 2-wheel drive for 20 grand, you might want to check out the All-wheel drive Honda CRV at $24,000 ish loaded.
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:18 01/18/18) If you're considering a Trax 2-wheel drive for 20 grand, you might want to check out the All-wheel drive Honda CRV at $24,000 ish loaded.

Where is this at? We paid just under $25k for the base model....and I did a lot of research.
 
Yep, the Hyundai Santa Fe is going to be our next vehicle. We used one when the Wife's car was in the body shop for Deer damage. Was a brand new Santa Fe Sport. We loved that thing,hated to give it back. I believe that they have 10 year, or 100,000 mile warranty yet.
 
I would go to library and look through some Consumer Report mags. This will tell you how the owners rate them. They will also suggest certain used vehicles that have great reliability ratings along with suggested prices.

Don't rely on what a sales person tells you.
 
(quoted from post at 19:57:41 01/18/18) I would go to library and look through some Consumer Report mags. This will tell you how the owners rate them. They will also suggest certain used vehicles that have great reliability ratings along with suggested prices.

Don't rely on what a sales person tells you.

That info is available on the internet also. I did a lot of research last winter when looking for a used suv. Decided Subaru was one I did not want.
 
Thanks for the input guys, most said about other funny brands! LOL The problem with that is I only have Chevy Ford and Dodge-Jeep dealers around here, to get a dealer of any other brand is an hour and a half away. Then we don't need AWD, have not needed it in the cars in the past, do live on hills and snows in the winter but it gets plowed and salt and sanded, no need for off roading with a car! Plus most any brand of car these days will get 200 to 250,000 miles with out much troubles. The reviews on the Trax says it don't have much power, but I am sure it will get from point A to point B just like the rest of them, why do we need all cars with 700 HP or we are not happy?
 
My wife just traded her jeep patriot for a.2015 Explorer with just 22000 miles. Still in factory warrenty. All the bells and whistles. Will parallel park itself. Even stay in its lane going down the interstate. She loves it. You never have to unlock it just have the fob in your pocket. I didn't know there were so many options available. It has ruined us. Going out and our car is warm and seats and steering wheel are warm. Even the back seats get warm.
 
Your wife probably would like a new car. Nothing's cheap anymore. I traded my 08 Ford Edge for a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee a couple months ago with 15k miles. What I don't like about the car is everything is on a push button screen. I think just about all the new cars are like that. Very confusing for me to even to get the radio on. It's the wife's car she likes it, that's what counts, I guess. I drive my 05 F 150 just fine, with no power anything. My grand son wanted to know where the window switch was. I said it's that handle, you just turn it. Stan
 
My daughter has a 16 chevy trax, base model came without cruise. I bought a new steering wheel put it on and now has cruise for $250. She loves it 30 mpg. Of course I am a 20 year GM employee so she got it for less then $20,000.
 
Actually "US Cars (there's only two companies left) have a lot of foreign content in them. Even the Ford Crown Vics (the dinosaur of American cars when they finally dropped it) had a French built transmission, Vietnamese tires, and Canadian engines - the bodies were stamped in the US though. Foreign profits end in the pockets of shareholders. Buy yourself some stock in Toyota or Hyundai and the money stays here. Just like foreigners can buy stock in Ford and GM and have the dividends paid overseas.
 
That story was a bunch of crap. The reason the Ford had fires after being struck from behind was the morons were running into parked cars at highway speeds. The Missouri state trooper that got killed by the gas tank fire was struck from behind by a F350 pulling a cattle trailer at 70 MPH with no braking. I think I'd take my chances with a body on frame Crown Vic over any the Subaru. Something about flashing lights on the side of the road was drawing drivers to the back of the Crow Vics like moths to a light bulb.
 
But do you have a long drive that they do not plow and by that I mean a .2 mile or longer drive? Then do you have to be out for a job several hours after the last plow truck went thru and drifts again up to a foot or more deep? I have had to have a wrecker out to get me out of drifts in middle of road at night while at work and also to get my van and TRACTOR both stuck in drive out. If you omly have a 50' drive and do not have to be out except when you want to be it is different than a long drive that drifts heavy or somebody else telling you where you are supposed to be in that snow storm.
 
We drove a 16 Explorer with a 3.5 Eco-boost motor. 360 hp. I think. Believe would out drag our old Road Runner. Wife thought it had to much power? She bought one with just 300 hp. Go figure!
 
We drove a 16 Explorer with a 3.5 Eco-boost motor. 360 hp. I think. Believe would out drag our old Road Runner. Wife thought it had to much power? She bought one with just 300 hp. Go figure!

The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 has 365 hp. If the other engine that she got is the 3.5L V6 non turbocharged then it has 290 hp. That is 75 horsepower difference. The torque is what makes the real difference. The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 has 350 ft lb. of torque and the 3.5L V6 non turbocharged V6 has 255 ft lb. of torque. That is 95 ft lb. difference, which is quite a bit.
 
Had a 2007 Subie Forester, gave it to my kid. It has 212k miles, no issues except some trim on the grill and electrical plug stuff, which was easy fix. We have a 2010 Forester, has 186k miles, no trouble so far except a rear main seal leak. I'm not tearing down the trans to fix a slow seal leak.

I've seen 2011-15 have oil consumption issues due to a faulty oil ring in the engine. Plenty of returns for that. I think fixed in 16.

I've owned lots of 4x4 and AWD cars, and Subaru is by far the best in snow, ice, and mixed goo. The torque converter adjusts very well. I also can tow a 2500Lb trailer with mine. I put on a trans cooler, and towed in 100F heat with the AC running for a few hours.
 
(quoted from post at 21:35:03 01/18/18) Look at a 15,000 used Subaru Outback. 4X4, Heated seats, heated wiprer rest, heated rear view mirrors, and much more. Made in Lafayette Indiana with 80% USA parts. Jim

Subarus are some of the best cars made. Not fancy by any means but as reliable as an old shoe. I bought a brand new '10 Forester X Premium in mid '09 and have put only a new power steering pump on it, that at 208,000 miles. Otherwise just have oil and filter changes in it, and no, have not replaced the timing belt and have not replaced hoses (but going to when the weather breaks for real, my garage isn't heated). The tires they put on it over in Japan lasted me 170,000 miles (yes, for real!), Yokohama Geolanders. We like it so much we just bought a '09 Forester X Premium with 110,000 miles. My MIL ask us why we got one with so many miles and the answer was simple, it's a Subaru and it's just getting broken in.
 
(quoted from post at 22:49:50 01/18/18) does subarus still have overheating problems, or did thay get that fixed by now?.

That and the head gasket issues from the mid 2000s have been solved.
 
(quoted from post at 23:25:37 01/18/18) I finally miked the metal and found the sheet metal in the Subaru front fender was .012" thick compared to .034" for a typical Chevy pickup fender. The moral at that time was if a Subaru and a Chevy pickup have a confrontation, guess which one will lose, big time. quote]

I can't defend what materials they use but can attest to the reliability of the vehicles. Given how the Subies are designed and engineered for safety (ever see the Subaru "They lived" advertising campaign?) I'd say the occupant of the truck might be in more peril than the Subaru driver. There is a substantial difference in weight between a truck and a car. Of course the car of any brand will come out on the losing end of such collision. The difference is in the occupant protection. I'd rather be in my Forester than my Silverado.
 
(quoted from post at 00:04:06 01/19/18) I was in a head on collision with a drunk driver who hauled it into my lane. Fairly even speeds making a closing speed of 80-90 mph between the two vehicles, no braking. I was in a ?paper fender? Subaru and he was in an S10 blazer early 2000?s vintage almost double our weight. Both vehicles obviously write offs. All the doors worked on the Subaru, some of his doors jammed. Both had front bumper at firewall pretty much. Lot of injuries in both vehicles occupants but no fatalities.

You lived!
 
(quoted from post at 01:54:50 01/19/18) I think all Subaru's only turn left,or that the joke around here. They all have save the planet or rainbow stickers on them! They seem to be the car of tree huggers and alternative lifestyle people.

Not true, not true at all. We don't hug trees or live any alternate lifestyle or display any wacko stickers and we turn right (owner of 2 Foresters). Generalizations are mostly wrong. We want reliable 4WD vehicles that aren't in the shop all the time that will get us back and forth to work on a 100 mile per day commute with decent gas mileage.
 

We owned a Blazer, a Trail Blazer, a Durango, and then an Equinox. All of those had many glitches. The Trail Blazer was the worst with a total transmission failure and then a power steering pump failure.

When it was time to replace the Equinox, we test drove a 4 door Silverado. The wife fell in love with it. It is her vehicle. Bought it brand new in 2012. It has been back to the dealer for oil changes and tire rotations only. Not a single glitch with anything else. Fuel mileage is about the same as any of the previous SUVs.
 
I have also been one to buy used vehicles since I started driving and buying. I have mostly bought cars driven by retired people. They typically are clean, well kept, low miles, etc. I had been kicking around a new vehicle for a change, since I had read an article in one of the magazines I subscribe to. It had been stated there would likely be bargains out there to be had, since in this country, there had been 5 consecutive years of high numbers of new cars and trucks being sold, and the domestic market was essentially "satisfied" at this time, however auto manufacturers have not really done anything on the production side to compensate for this reduction in demand. I did not buy quite brand new. In early October, I found a 2017 model year, which had been "leased" in June. The lessee died and the car went back to the leasing company. They had to sell the car with 1128 miles on the odometer. The car happened to be the exact color combination I had wanted in the trim package and model I had wanted. I got into essentially a brand new car for $20,400, which the sticker price was $26,650, and there were a few other additional items added in which did not appear on the sticker, either. I thought I did pretty well.
 
(quoted from post at 15:40:43 01/18/18)
I was a died-in-the-wool Ford guy for many years until they told me that they didn't want my business any more.

Who at FORD told you they didn't want your business any more.I'm betting that someone at FORD would like to know!
 

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