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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Minimum wage update and issues since it came up

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jocco

01-13-2018 11:11:12




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Just found this out. Furniture/appliance dealer in nearest big town is suspending all deliveries!!! Guy told me that min wage increase was big factor but he was getting hammered with so many costs trucks, insurance, taxes. AND NOW THE BIG ONE he got collobered with you delivered a fridge but scratched my floor (refund issued equals profit gone)!) You dented my range (refund issued equals profit gone)!) So he is doing auction of Isuzu and Datsu box delivery trucks and laying off that section of his crew. Next service is going on a prepaid basis (you have to pay so much up front before they go out. ( too many unpaid balances and bogus checks) He did mention a sub contract outfit to due deliveries but in a way that takes him out of the equation. In the end he sells goods not delivery. I always thought he had a good business and quite a few employees and top notch service, sales Wondering if this will be the new normal.

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jim buford

01-17-2018 12:57:14




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Overall I feel I was treated fairly by my employers over the years-worked till I was 75. I told my bosses my number one job in my opinion was to make them look good. I wanted the company to prosper but my first obligation was to the boss.



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Bret4207

01-16-2018 05:13:38




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

News flash, you can pay an employee $100.00 an hour and if he's an idiot, he'll still screw things up. A higher wage is no guarantee of better performance. Never has been, never will be.



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kcm.MN

01-14-2018 19:12:37




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
I'm not sure it matters so much who the people work for, as it does the quality of the people working. Many folks wanna get paid just for showing up (if that!). Others truly care about doing a job the best they can.



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kcm.MN

01-14-2018 09:11:55




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Have been thinking about this and, with all of the vast differences in cost-of-living throughout the country, I think that minimum wage should be set by state, or maybe at the county level and monitored by state according to federal guidelines.



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jocco

01-14-2018 11:03:41




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to kcm.MN, 01-14-2018 09:11:55  
It is to a point, guess federal sets the lowest min allowed.



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SodBuster87

01-14-2018 05:50:43




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Like I've always said. You pay peanuts you are going to get monkeys. And while I am cautious of govt. Involvement because they almost always complicate things. All of these companies whining they are going to go broke if minimum wage increases I have to wonder. If they are not willing to invest money in a good workforce, what else are they skimping on? And if thats the case I don't feel sorry for them. I'm fortunate to have a boss now who treats me fairly. However I worked plenty of jobs in the past where I heard "I'm sorry I can't afford to pay you more." usauly followed by "Please don't go work for that other guy." Or jobs where you couldn't take your scheduled and govt. mandated breaks after 8 hours because the boss "forgot" to schedule a cover for you. Funny the boss never had a problem finding time for his breaks. Like someone else said. Minimum wage is just their way of saying if I could pay you less I would. There is a tire place up the road thats hiring. I asked him about working for him part time. At the time Christmas was coming up. I asked him what he payed. He said minimum wage. So I am supposed to throw around tractor tires for minimum wage and btw no health benefits if/when you do throw your back out. I told him thanks but no thank you. I found more hours with my current boss doing odd things even though they were technically outside my job description. Like I said you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. And realy those who pay their employees minimum wage deserve whatever they get in terms of bad help. After all they payed for it. Sod Buster

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MarkB_MI

01-14-2018 03:32:31




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Hmm. How does Lowes do it? Free delivery on appliances and very competitive prices.

Independent appliance stores have bigger problems than rising wages. Number one is they're lucky if the wholesale price they pay is less than retail at the big box stores. Almost all the independent dealers around here have closed.



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Texasmark1

01-14-2018 16:41:36




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to MarkB_MI, 01-14-2018 03:32:31  
Local orange box store uses contracts and whopping big difference. I wouldn't let them on my property to deliver my clothes dryer. Met them at the street with my tractor and loading forks. Lowe's delivery trucks belong to them and the drivers and helpers are Lowe's employees.

My next appliance was a new refrigerator and Lowe's got my business and their guys did a real professional job of the installation.....and dismantling and back together after the passage through the front door.

For any skeptics, I posted facts and my feelings about the subject. No bashing, just facts and feelings.

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kcm.MN

01-13-2018 22:30:59




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Thanks for the tip Glenn. However, already checked. The legs are part of the solid oak frame. The sofa weighs more than what I remember a queen-size sofa-sleeper weighing! The fabric is tough also. Salesman took a ball point pen and jabbed the fabric really hard. Nothing - not a mark! Had me try it also. Again, nothing. I ain't never seen quality like this before!! But our house has 32" doors, and these pieces barely squeak by a 36" opening.

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tony in sd

01-13-2018 22:24:51




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
One thing nobody has addressed with the higher wages is the cost of everything associated with the wages. i.e. workers comp and general liability insurance, SUTA, FUTA, and the employers contribution to social security and Medicare. They are all a % of the total wages. SS & Medicare are more than 7%, workers comp VARIES depending on the job, office workers only a few %, construction workers near 20%. Not to mention other benefits like health insurance, 401K, etc. So a $3 raise can easily cost an employer $4.50 to $6.00.

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kcm.MN

01-13-2018 18:33:52




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Sure, if we want to put them upstairs. *lol*



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Bob

01-13-2018 18:27:46




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Looking at it another way, if an outfit successfully delivered 1000 fridges, dented NONE of them, and NO floors were scratched, there'd be a handful of JERK "customers" claiming damages, demanding a refund, etc.

HOW do you fix THAT side of the equation?



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NCWayne

01-13-2018 17:42:54




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
For those talking about paying a decent wage for decent employees, the problem is finding decent employees. I know a guy who was offering $15 hr for lawncare helpers with a raise at 30 days, another at 60 days, both based on performance, and a week vacation for anyone who stayed for 6 months.

He never gave the first raise because those that worked did it halfway, and the rest continually showed up late, or not at all.

In the end, and it's sad to say, there are a lot of spoiled, entitled people out there who think they are worth far more than they are....and will flat out refuse to work if they think the job is beneath them....

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kansasredneck

01-13-2018 21:18:48




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to NCWayne, 01-13-2018 17:42:54  
A friend of mine hired construction workers from the college engineering program one year. Of twenty that he hired, over half did not come back after lunch, and only one came back for day two. I have worked off and on for him for over twenty years. He is demanding, but not overly so, show up, work not talk, and if you screw it up, you fix it.



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glennster

01-13-2018 18:42:35




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to NCWayne, 01-13-2018 17:42:54  
bingo wayne, you nailed it. i could not get tow truck divers. a good driver could do 50 to 60 k a year. on call, we did police and motor club and private towing. most that applied could not pass police background or drug test. did not need a cdl, but in ill a class b licence. the guys you did hire ended up tearing up equipment bad. got rid of the fleet and have a couple companies that do our towing. we ran 24/7.

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larryh

01-13-2018 17:20:03




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
the raise in min wage only hurts poor people and teens --it raises the cost of everything they buy and puts more out of work



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wgm

01-13-2018 16:23:57




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Very few retails in my area do their own deliveries any more. They contract to companies who do this for a living.



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PJH

01-13-2018 15:42:25




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
I haven't been paying real close attention, but I thought the tax cut was designed to help in sort of a trickle down manner?



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hd6gtom

01-13-2018 14:45:32




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
McDonalds is already addressing the issue. Remodeling stores and putting in ordering kiosks out front. You enter the store, punch in your order, swipe your card, and 1 of 2 guys behind the counter bags up your grub, calls your # and away you go. Elimating several counter people, don't need to have anyone to make deposits or take money to the bank, thank you idiots in California. You don't think this is gonna continue??? Where are all the college grads gonna go, no more asking "Uh you want frys with that"???

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oldtanker

01-13-2018 14:38:09




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Figures like this if the pays his delivery crew more then he has to charge more to stay profitable. Business 101. Business 102, if a competitor still pays less to the employees they can sell for less! Business 103, he now goes out of business because his competitor could undersell him.
Sorry if you hired everything done on a "mom and pop" farm you'd go broke too. Fella here says he can hire help with his 80 cow herd as long as his total outlay for an employee is less than 600 a month. That don't equal a lot of labor. Raise minimum wage and it buys even less labor.
Now look at a company like Walmart. Over 2 million employees. Lets say they pay 10 and hour starting. Now they raise it to 15. 33.3%. Every other employee is going to expect a 33% raise. Guess who's paying for that raise? The customer! Even id the CEO worked for free and dumped they're entire CEO pay into employee wages it would amount to a raise of less than 10 dollars a year if the CEO is paid 20 million a year. 2X10=20. There are more than 2 million workers.

Rick

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farmer boy

01-13-2018 14:47:28




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to oldtanker, 01-13-2018 14:38:09  
Not really. If he pays 4 guys another $3/hr, but doesnít have near the scratches and dings, the extra wage is offset some by not fixing peopleís floors and discounting appliances.



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farmer boy

01-13-2018 13:52:11




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Now just imagine he hired some decent guys and paid them a decent wage. He very likely wouldn't have nearly as many problems with scratched floors and dented appliances. The people he's going to find for minimum wage don't give a crap. The problem with paying minimum wage is that you're saying. "If I could pay you less, I would, but I legally can't" The important thing to note here is that you have to pay a decent wage to get decent employees. Decent employees are few and far between at minimum wage. The ones you do find will soon be gone because they found someone that values the fact that they're a good worker.

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RBoots

01-13-2018 13:54:04




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to farmer boy, 01-13-2018 13:52:11  
You're right about that



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RBoots

01-13-2018 13:50:33




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
You know, a lot of you guys are attacking the guy assuming he pays low wages. I don't know anything about these guys, but we all know how much of a clusterflock some people have for a setup in their floorplans. Poorly laid out, junk in the way, just plain not enough room for appliances that were installed before the finish work was done on a home. I helped my brother bring a refrigerator up his narrow, finished basement stairs with 2 landings. It was there when he bought the place, a newer home. It wasn't heavy for us, just awkward. If you think it came out without scruffing the woodwork/drywall, you'd be wrong. And then there's the people who's stuff was already scratched/dented, that will claim anything to get a deal or a lower price.

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Jocco

01-13-2018 14:49:20




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to RBoots, 01-13-2018 13:50:33  
He indicated there was lots of what you said.



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kcm.MN

01-13-2018 13:40:06




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
I'd like to see one of those robots (ANY robot!) wrestle a large, heavy sofa or side-by-side fridge into an old farmhouse!!

While in Arkansas, we had planned to live there for Mom's final years. Ended up buying a new sofa and loveseat. Mom passed shortly after. Hauled them back here and, what's this? They won't fit through the doorway! Not sure when it'll happen, but will have to replace one window with a much larger window, then also go through an interior wall just to get the things inside. For now, they're safely in storage....and taunting the wifey all the time!

Ah, life in wonderful. *lol*

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PAGlenn

01-13-2018 21:50:55




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to kcm.MN, 01-13-2018 13:40:06  
Check the legs on your sofa and chair. They may unscrew off. My dad used to deliver furniture to old homes that were converted into apart. He brought along with the delivery a saw and wood screws for that purpose.



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jeffcat

01-13-2018 15:30:19




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to kcm.MN, 01-13-2018 13:40:06  
You ain't the only one bucko. When I had to change out the fridge. Oh boy... had to take both doors and all mounting hardware off. Covered the fridge with movers quilts. Lastly had to remove the kitchen door and hinges. Put down a sheet of plywood. Then with THREE guys. The fridge actually Sqweaked comming in through the door frame. Fun fun fun. Your sofa, can't you lift the roof off of the house. You know, just like you would do with a Doll House. He he.

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tractorcedric

01-13-2018 13:29:10




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
I don't know about minimum wage, but I would like to comment on the picture of robots building cars. Yes the robots don't get minimum wage, but I bet the crew that designs, builds, installs and maintains the robots make much more than minimum wage. I have twenty antique tractors that I use for one thing or another. If you think about it your tractor is a robot and you are the controller. That said I have seen many workers that don't do enough work to warrant minimum wages.

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David G

01-13-2018 13:17:33




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
I have issues with some of my employees, thinking about bonusing off performance.



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Ray

01-13-2018 13:52:43




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to David G, 01-13-2018 13:17:33  
I don't think it's the wages, it's the employees that don't care and can't do anything. I bought a new refrigerator from lowes last summer. The guys that brought it had to change the door from a left hand opener to a right hand opening door. They scratched the door being careless, but I didn't say anything. They started screws crooked and half way in they got tight. I felt like taking the tools away from them and doing it myself. When finished they backed the dual wheel delivery truck into my yard and left ruts 4 inches deep. I know the local menards got rid of there delivery crew and now contract it out.

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Stephen Newell

01-13-2018 12:58:43




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  

These guys don't get minimum wage. Likely to see more of them.



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ss55

01-13-2018 13:17:27




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-13-2018 12:58:43  
The guys and gals that design, manufacture, assemble, program and maintain robotic assembly lines make a lot more than minimum wage.



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Stephen Newell

01-13-2018 19:34:40




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to ss55, 01-13-2018 13:17:27  
That is true but the overall cost is less than an hourly employee. Plus you can depend on them to be at work everyday.



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Texasmark1

01-15-2018 06:39:59




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-13-2018 19:34:40  
And look at what they do. Remember the Nissan Altima commercials where this actor guy, know not his name, has an Altima on it's side and rolls a quarter dollar sized ball down the space between the trunk lid and the main body parts showing off the ability to maintain dimensions and quality of workmanship. Since then, when in a parking lot, I find myself admiring how you can take a 20 ton roll of sheet steel and come out with perfectly manufactured products like today's automobiles.

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Steamboat

01-13-2018 12:52:32




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
You get what you pay for. If he paid low wages, he probably received low performance work product.



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Chuck Machinist

01-13-2018 12:39:25




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
You have to be in business to understand all that goes with profit-loss. Lots of loss and little profit closes doors . Then everybody loses Just sayin.CM



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jocco

01-13-2018 12:47:04




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to Chuck Machinist, 01-13-2018 12:39:25  
You are correct and well said (and this out fit does pay good wages for the area). What the minimum wage increase did, and I should have stated it. $10 minimum now goes to $12 $12 current employee wants $14 $2 above minimum like he was. I too have seen many business things that someone had to get out of and concentrate on their core business.



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WalJohn

01-13-2018 12:36:24




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I remember seeing somewhere their are folks trying to start an Uber type service for people who need trucks or vans for deliveries. They even have a premium service where they will also supply the labor.



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ss55

01-13-2018 12:08:24




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
He might be subcontracting out his deliveries and installations to one or more crews that specialize in appliance deliveries.



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jocco

01-13-2018 12:22:25




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to ss55, 01-13-2018 12:08:24  
Correct, not sure of all the details but if fridge gets bent talk to bubba and chuckies insurance not mine type deal.



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John in La

01-13-2018 12:30:21




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 12:22:25  
And if he was losing money do deliveries with his own crew does he expect bubba and chuck to do it for the same price.



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jocco

01-13-2018 12:36:31




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to John in La, 01-13-2018 12:30:21  
John one thing I am starting to notice on some of this is: example you buy a carpet from carpet town they do not install it but have a sub that does. (kind of an endorsement) BUT WHEN THINGS GO BAD cut an inch to short ETC TALk to carpetlayers insurance not ours. ALL OF A SUDDEN WERE NOT AFFILIATED!!!



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John in La

01-13-2018 13:19:35




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 12:36:31  
Jocco; I work for a nation wide delivery company (LTL)
With internet sales we are delivering at least two 53' trailers to residential a day; every day within about 75 miles of New Orleans. Every terminal across the country does the same thing.
And this is just the big stuff that UPS will not haul.

We sub out all the residential deliveries.
The sub makes money because not only is he our sub he is the sub for several other companies.
More volume per square mile.

I will tell you the ONLY thing brick and mortar stores have over internet sales is inside delivery.
We do have inside delivery for a extra fee but it is called threshold service for a reason.
Once it is over the threshold and the door can be closed it is yours.

While it is true this furniture store will shift liability to another company.
He will also shift quality control such as on time delivery to the other company.

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David G

01-13-2018 11:58:12




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Sounds like he needs a better crew, maybe more than min wage.



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steve706

01-13-2018 11:46:22




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Itís dropping things like delivery that make people look online and then the brick and mortar stores whine about lost sales.



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Steve@Advance

01-13-2018 11:43:04




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
Sounds like he's about to reach the end.

Delivery is a big selling point, a deal killer to most consumers. I don't know of any that don't deliver. Some charge, some free. but all do.

There aren't many independent furniture/appliance dealers left around here. The big box stores have about done them in.



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Loren in Iowa

01-13-2018 11:40:22




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
If he paid more than minimum wage, maybe he could have found some people who wouldn't damage things, when they delivered them.



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Russ from MN

01-13-2018 13:11:25




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to Loren in Iowa, 01-13-2018 11:40:22  
Exactly my thought, the problem is what do we do with all the flunkies? We don't dig ditches by hand anymore.



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Fred Werring

01-13-2018 11:39:22




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to jocco, 01-13-2018 11:11:12  
If he's an appliance dealer, he's gonna have to find some way of delivering.

Guys on this forum may have what it takes to get a fridge home and inside, most folks don't.

Shoot, while I'm capable of doing it, I paid to have the last fridge delivered. The sucker's HUGE, (asked wifey why we needed such a big fridge with the kids leaving, I just got a look). Was well worth the money to let them wrestle with it.

Fred

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Dave Westlund

01-13-2018 18:02:33




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 Re: Minimum wage update and issues since it came up in reply to Fred Werring, 01-13-2018 11:39:22  
Don't think higher wages automatically give you better employees. It's still the same employee. You need to be competitive. What if the employer provides an incentive to his employees if delivery is made without damage they are rewarded. It can in a form of a financial bonus or maybe if they get there X amount of deliveries done for the day/week they can go home early with a full days pay. Customers are happy. Employee is happy too. cost to Employer is minimal or reduced cost.

Why does most of this group think earning a minimum wages makes you a dud.

Pay raises are short term satisfiers.

My 2 cents
Dave

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