re: fuel transfer tanks

kcm.MN

Well-known Member
Location
NW Minnesota
[b:042a220408]cjunrau[/b:042a220408] made a post in the other thread (thank you cj!) that brought up a VERY good subject that probably deserves its own thread. He posted this: "[i:042a220408]I have used air to empty fuel into other containers. You just have to have common sense and or a regulator. I know a guy who had. Semi fuel tank on the back of his truck. Had air valve and would transfer it into a 300 gallon tank On stand at home. Fuel was cheaper at a certain store than what they would deliver onto his yard. Every trip to go shopping was less than half price because of the 75-100 gallons he would bring home. To avoid regulations some guys even made them permanent mounted as extra truck tanks.[/i:042a220408]"

This brings up an interesting twist, AND a good question. My very first truck was my late-Grandfather's 1976 Ford F-150, 2wd, auto, 390ci, and geared low for pulling. He was an expert welder and had made custom rear bumper and front brush guard, as well as making 2 additional gas tanks. That truck would do 76MPH uphill, downhill, loaded, empty....didn't matter. Only thing that did matter was it was a heavy drinker. Some might even say that truck was a hopeless drunk! Shocked

Anyway, from what you're saying, I could weld up something similar for my truck today and make it so that the truck could run off of that tank, and that would bypass the regulations? Certainly it's not as simple as that.....is it??

As regulations continue to stack deeper and deeper upon us, this is one that certainly should be hashed out a little bit, not only from the perspective of "can it be done", but also from the perspective of safety. What happens if such a vehicle is ever involved in a crash? What if road debris pops up and starts the tank to leaking badly? What if someone is not a good welder, or does not design/build their tank or make their connections well enough?

I've mentioned before how we were in a similar way here to what was mentioned, that it is cheaper for us to buy fuel at the pump in town rather than to have it delivered. However, all the regs about hauling fuel (specifically gas) have me wondering. Is there a limit to how many 5-gal cans we can carry at once? Does it matter if they're secured? What if we build on a permanent tank - sort of like building our own fuel hauler....where is that line we cross that puts us over into commercial regulations?
 

Yes. It does become quite interesting. I usually bring 2 five gallon jugs when I need tractor and lawnmower fuel. Some times I might have 3. No one has ever told me I can't do that, but I've never asked either. Sometimes, a guy just does what needs to be done without asking any questions. If it gets to the point where I can no longer do that, my first alternative is to fill the gas tank on the truck, go home and siphon out 5 or 10 gallons.

I've also been at the gas station and observed folks driving in on their riding lawnmowers and filling them with gas. Is THAT legal?
 
(quoted from post at 09:04:56 11/19/17)
I've also been at the gas station and observed folks driving in on their riding lawnmowers and filling them with gas. Is THAT legal?
I was "almost" surprised by that, but then I thought about how many times I see ATV's and snowmobiles pulling up to the pumps.

It still upsets me though when folks don't turn off their engines while fueling. ...But that's another story. :wink:
 
I don't think filling a lawn mower at the pump is a problem, just because it's not licensed. You see folks filling tractors, boats,
motorcycles, directly into the fuel tank, probably less apt to cause a problem than using a can. I thought there was a limit on how much you
can haul in 5 gallon cans, but I can't find anything. They have to be legal cans and secured, as they should be, just like propane tanks.
 
I've had thoughts about rigging a pump to the tank on my truck (38 gallons) and use that to haul gas home from the station. I don't like hauling gas cans in my other vehicles, and often don't go into town with
the truck unless I need to haul something, or I could get 6 cans.

On the air comment, I used to work at an industrial plant, we unloaded most of the chemicals from trucks with air. Pressurise the trailer and blow it out. They started this after a stainless tanker got
collapsed by not being properly vented when pulling the product out of it with a pump. A big bang, and that trailer folded up like a taco!
 
Well John, going back to the original post on the other thread, TomTurkey wrote this: "[i:7ff906d54f]I just received a Northern Tool catalog yesterday, was looking at the fuel transfer tanks and nearly everyone of them in bold print said "TANK IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE WITH GASOLINE OR OTHER FLAMABLE FUELS". What is the hidden meaning behind this bold print[/i:7ff906d54f]." Isn't that what we're trying to understand here?

There are a lot of misconceptions out there, and a lot that happens that we never realize....UNTIL an accident happens. For example, my fears of people leaving their engines running at the pump -- is that still an issue nowdays with modern cars, modern pumps, etc? I'm not trying to turn the conversation in another direction, but like Tom, there's a lot about hauling "gasoline" that I don't know.

Diesel fuel is safer to haul than gas; is less flammable. Also, it's not as common these days for people to be wanting to haul moderate loads of gas to their home or farm....or bug-out shelter, whatever! *lol* Someone mentioned they take two or three 5-gal gas cans to the pumps and fill up. I've taken 4 in the back of the truck. ....Then again, we're 50 miles from town, don't go to town very often, and don't have a need to order hundreds of gallons at a time to be delivered.

All that said, I have thought many times about the possibility of building some sort of small gas hauler or something. What stops me is knowing that at any time, something "could" go horribly wrong. I grew up with the learnin' that I should always think through my actions, and consider how what I do could affect other people. Even if I'm not the cause of an accident and did NOTHING wrong, there's always the chance of a drunk driver, someone on their smart phone, or some other scenario that prevents me from even taking certain chances.

Add to that how my life is limited in knowledge and experience, and we have the makings of a first-class thread. It's still tractor-related, as many of these older tractors run on gas, and hold a lot more than one or two 5-gal cans of gas, YET are not used enough anymore to justify buying in bulk. So, I'd like to hear the thoughts of others out there, learn more on the regs of hauling gasoline, others' experiences, etc. I'll never (!!!) make a transport trailer specifically for hauling gas, and will most likely just stick with taking 4 or 5 cans at a time to town. Still, I strap them in place and, as our truck has a fiberglass bed cap, they are also shielded from Summer heat. ...But how safe am I being, really?!?!? I would 'like' to think [i:7ff906d54f]very[/i:7ff906d54f] safe, or at least very cautious. Then again, what happens if some yahoo runs us off the road or we hit glare ice and things go from bad to worse?
 
It is not unusual for me to go to town to get gas/fuel and have one six, one five, one two and a half for gas and one six for diesel. All plastic, all the right color with the required markings. All semi-secured in the pick-up bed with bungee cords. This is safer than one transfer tank with the same amount of fuel? must be. During the summer, when making hay mowing yard and other tractor related work is being done, I'll need to do this every other week. I will probably continue with the stupid plastic jugs, as the transfer tank idea seems a little iffy. I did not get old doing unsafe stuff. Although I still question a transfer tanks safety vs. 3 plastic jugs. Thinking back to the olden days and my 64 Ford half ton pu. that 25 gallons of gas was inches away from my back, right behind the seat, with two saddle tanks in the box. A total of perhaps 55 gallons at fill up. No one seemed to give it a second thought. gobble
 
(quoted from post at 10:17:35 11/19/17) I've had thoughts about rigging a pump to the tank on my truck (38 gallons) and use that to haul gas home from the station. I don't like hauling gas cans in my other vehicles, and often don't go into town with
the truck unless I need to haul something, or I could get 6 cans.

I have a 2000 Chevy PU with a 38 Gal tank used like you use yours. Installed an adaptor on the fuel rail Schrader valve and a quick disconnect both bought from Rock Auto. Found the wire going back to the fuel pump, installed a relay and switch under the hood that turns on the fuel pump.

Pull my ZTR up beside the truck plug a hose into the quick connect and hit the switch. Takes a little while as the hose is only 1/2 inch ID but better than hauling 5 gal gas cans.

Been doing this for a couple years and so far no issues with a run down battery or fuel pump. Have ran more than 1/2 the tank out a few times before making a trip to town.
 
you don't need to weld up your own tank. You take an approved fuel tank off a semi, mount it on your truck , run a hose to the line in your truck and it becomes a second tank. Not saying it would pass all regs, or be a great idea.
Take a truck that has 2 tanks front and rear, or left and right. hook one up to use as a delivery tank. It would be almost the same. I am in Canada and we can buy approved nurse tanks for the back of pickups, they are up to 150 gallons. We have alot of farmers who also buy 250 gallon tanks and are pulled on trailers to the fields as well. I have never been asked or questioned about it as long as it was an approved tank and was secured in the box or on the trailer. Nears I can find for our regs is as long as for personal use very little regs involved. but sell and its a whole different ball game.
 
that,s a great idea. Perfect for the small amount of gas I now use as only chainsaw lawnmower and quad are gas . all tractors and grain trucks are diesel.
 
(quoted from post at 09:44:08 11/19/17) The problem is you guys try to take diesel (combustible liquid) rules and apply them to Gasoline (flammable liquid)
That does not work and could get you in real trouble.

All of my tractors, etc. are gasoline powered. How does that apply to me?
 
CJ, awesome idea! Have thought about mounting an existing tank to a trailer, but maybe the thing to do is to take a gas tank from an existing truck and mount it on my #2 truck, then have an electric fuel pump that can simply pump directly into whatever is needing gas. ...Might not even need a pump. Might just built a ramp to drive the truck up onto and let the gas be gravity flow.

Saw a Youtube video a couple months back that was showing the idea that Bob wrote of. Ah yes, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhpyCzvHGEw
Has been a while since I watched this video, and probably won't be set up for making any such type of thing until after Winter, as I didn't get the shop up before snowfall.
 
Right now, I have "reserve" gas in the Farmall 460, a GMC C5500 with 454 gas engine, a 6-gal and (3) 5-gal plastic cans. I literally HATE to siphon gas, especially in the winter. But our snow plow truck is no longer licensed for the road or has insurance, so have to fill it up in Winter as well. So yes, have been "actively" considering other options here. I don't like the idea of the storage tank on stand. For one thing, I bought one at auction some years ago but, as luck would have it, wind had blown it over the night before the auction. Got it home and it had formed a leak that I tried unsuccessfully to repair. The leak is where the stand is welded to the tank.Not to mention, the ground is usually so soft out here that a large fuel truck would bury itself!!

Have thought about using a new transfer tank to use as a storage tank, loading the empty tank into the truck or onto the lowboy trailer and taking to town, then lifting into place with the tractor when home again. However, there's that [b:f51f2c98d0]BOLD[/b:f51f2c98d0] print about not for use with gasoline, which obviously must concern only when transferring.

I also have to think of the wife when considering this extra gas -- is the setup something that "she" can do? She can't lift 5-gal gas cans, and I struggle with them in Winter filling the plow truck as the gas has to flow in more slowly due to the stupid anti-siphon design!! Holding that plastic funnel while balancing the can opening on the rim of the funnel....yes, now and then I spill and end up hearing from the wife how I'm stinking to high heaven!

I like the idea of having a low tank that wind can't blow over (is VERY windy here!!), and I have previously used the idea of pressurizing a fuel oil tank in order to get the contents out. Also did it to a small riding mower gas tank when it finally bit the dust. Only takes 3-5 PSI or so to get the gas/fuel flowing. However, have not done this on a larger scale using gas....only that time with the lawnmower tank. I would imaging proper grounding would be essential. Then there's always the possibility of a static spark coming through the incoming air -- whether that's likely or not I do not know. I think the air would be too wet with our high humidity.

So at this time, I like the idea of mounting a commercial-made aux tank from a large truck to my #2 truck and adding a way to pump it out. Then again, I'm then limited to ONLY being able to take that truck to town for gas. So ideally, I'd like to also consider the idea of a trailer mounted tank, OR to have a way to mount a tank on a trailer securely enough. Sssoooooo, what are the pros and cons of each idea? What about regs? What about unforeseen accidents?? I mean, there's placards all over the gas pumps for people to shut off their engines while fueling, but almost 1/2 never will. So as long as it's done as absolutely safely as possible, what are our options??
 
Kcm and rustyfarmall

Call me slow or even dumb but I really do not understand your question.

I posted the rules in the previous thread.
If there is a area you do not understand or want me to elaborate on ask away.
I guess if you are trying to debate why these are the rules we could try that also.
 
A transfer tank that is used to transport gasoline has to have the pump lower than the top of the tank. This is
to prevent the pump from being broke off in the event of an accident. This is what we had to do at work to be DOT
compliant. If you look in a Northern Tool catalog you will see one that is DOT approved. If the pump is above
the the tank diesel only.
 

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