fuel transfer tanks

tomturkey

Well-known Member
As I age, hoisting 5 gallon fuel cans up to refuel tractors is getting tough. Considered getting a fuel tank with pump to set up at home. I'd like to fill it at the local convience store bring it home and slide roll it onto a stand. I just received a Northern Tool catalog yesterday, was looking at the fuel transfer tanks and nearly everyone of them in bold print said "
TANK IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE WITH GASOLINE OR OTHER FLAMABLE FUELS". What is the hidden meaning behind this bold print. gobble
 
Liability ? If they are true "fuel" transfer tanks I don't know why it would say that though !
 
I don't think there's any hidden meaning I think it means exactly what it says. I have a transfer tank that I load on the truck to get diesel and then unload in the shop, but I sure won't try that with gasoline. Also, most transfer tanks are not meant to be moved. They're meant to be bolted to a truck bed. I built a solid platform that moves with the tank.
 
Years ago I had two 75 gal tanks in the pickup, side by side at the front, each with electric pumps. At that time I had a gas field tractor, along with a gas swather and Gleaner combine, so it was important to take gas to distant fields. Later I switched to a 110 gal tank for diesel, and since it was in a short box truck, I set it on 5x6 blocks on each side of the bed. By raising it up, I can still slide 4 foot wide plywood, or other lumber, or steel. There are countless auxiliary fuel tanks in pickups.
 
There are 2 sets of laws for the hauling of and onsite storage of fuel.
Since you want to fill at the convenience store and haul it home yourself we will go with the hauling rules since they are stricter.

If you notice all these tanks are smaller than 119 gallons.
That is because the DOT does not regulate diesel fuel in packages less than 119 gallons.
This is because diesel is considered a combustible liquid.
In layman terms this means the average Joe can haul as much diesel fuel as he wants as long as the package size stays below 119 gallons.
Use a package size of 119 gallons or larger and you fall under DOT hazmat rules.

Also since diesel is a combustible you can use cheaper pumps that do not control static electricity as well.


Now lets talk gasoline.
Gasoline is considered a class 3 flammable liquid with a packing group of II.
It has a much lower flash point.
ALL hazardous materials are regulated by DOT.
Things like package labels.
Yes it is against the law to haul gasoline in old roundup jugs for this package label reason.
The DOT gives some exemptions for Materials of trade use that allows you to haul home 5 gallon jugs of gasoline but if you notice these jugs still have labels.
For a packing group II this exemption ends a container sizes of 8 gallons.
So in short it is against federal law to haul around a container larger than 8 gallons that once held gasoline.
Yes even the empty container that once held gasoline is regulated until steam washed out.

So in short these northern tool containers are smaller than 119 gallons but larger than 8 gallons and have no gasoline labels so they are for transporting diesel fuel only.

And since gasoline is a flammable the pumps are not suitable also. They are not properly grounded to prevent static electricity.

The tank venting may not meet gasoline standards also but that is another subject that requires even more typing on my part.
 
I would sure want some kind of plan for unloading.

Can you lift it with the loader or a hoist and drive from under it?

Trying to safely get a full, or worse, a partial container, of fuel out of the truck can be a real challenge!
 
I have one of those Northern Tool tanks, I believe its 10 gallon capacity tank, it has a small hose with a nozzle on the end to disperse the gas. I bring gas home from the gas station in 5 gallon cans with four gallons in them. I dump them in the Northern tank that is sitting at ground level on a pallet. Then lift the pallet high enough with the loader tractor with pallet forks on to gas my old Farmall up.

As we get older we learn to improvise so we are still able to do the things we do. I do have a overhead Diesel Fuel Tank with on the farm delivery from the fuel company for my everyday users and I don't use the old Farmall that much.
 

A couple of years ago a neighbor was gassing up his tractor inside the barn from a transfer tank. He thought he would just pull the ground cable off the battey when the tank was full...sparked a fire that burned up his tractor and burned a big hole in the roof of the big old barn. It was near a busy road and someone rear ended another sending them in the ditch.....comedy of errors, could have been a lot worse!
 
I made my own out of stainless steel and it hold a little over 150 gallons. I empty out the fuel and get gas in town to fill the overhead gas tank at the farm. Never had a problem.
 
I've hauled diesel in a well-strapped-down 55 gallon drum in my pickup. You could pump it from there to your tank on the ground.

Fred
 
(quoted from post at 18:01:06 11/18/17) I've hauled diesel in a well-strapped-down 55 gallon drum in my pickup. You could pump it from there to your tank on the ground.

Fred

I put three on a pallet with a ratchet strap around them. Take them out of the truck with the skidsteer and forks. My electric pump screws right into them.
 
Last summer had the same issue with getting old and wrestling with 5 gal fuel jugs so started looking for options. Found the 25 Gal tank and pump on Craigslist for less than the pump would have cost from Northern. Installed a quick disconnect so I can disconnect the tank from the pump. When empty can easily put in the bed of my pickup, leave it laying flat on it's back and fill with diesel at the local gas station.

When I get back I pick it up with my loader and a strap on the handle just enough to get it on the wheels. Set my loader bucket on the tail gate and roll it into the bucket, tie it down and move it into the shop. Easy matter to roll it into place and connect it back to the pump.

Ya I know it should be yellow but for the price I'll live with red.

6433.jpg
 
I have used air to empty fuel into other containers. You just have to have common sense and or a regulator. I know a guy who had. Semi fuel tank on the back of his truck. Had air valve and would transfer it into a 300 gallon tank On stand at home. Fuel was cheaper at a certain store than what they would deliver onto his yard. Every trip to go shopping was less than half price because of the 75-100 gallons he would bring home. To avoid regulations some guys even made them permanent mounted as extra truck tanks.
 
(quoted from post at 06:33:36 11/19/17) I have used air to empty fuel into other containers. You just have to have common sense and or a regulator. I know a guy who had. Semi fuel tank on the back of his truck. Had air valve and would transfer it into a 300 gallon tank On stand at home. Fuel was cheaper at a certain store than what they would deliver onto his yard. Every trip to go shopping was less than half price because of the 75-100 gallons he would bring home. To avoid regulations some guys even made them permanent mounted as extra truck tanks.
....This brings up an interesting twist, AND a good question. My very first truck was my late-Grandfather's 1976 Ford F-150, 2wd, auto, 390ci, and geared low for pulling. He was an expert welder and had made custom rear bumper and front brush guard, as well as making 2 additional gas tanks. That truck would do 76MPH uphill, downhill, loaded, empty....didn't matter. Only thing that [i:031ef57bb3]did[/i:031ef57bb3] matter was it was a heavy drinker. Some might even say that truck was a hopeless drunk! :shock:

Anyway, from what you're saying, I could weld up something similar for my truck today and make it so that the truck could run off of that tank, and that would bypass the regulations? Certainly it's not as simple as that.....is it??
 

We've had diesel tanks on the farm for years, haven't had a gas storage tank since the 70's until a couple years ago.
With most of the tractors being diesel I didn't think we needed gas storage for no more than I thought we where using. One day the wife got to talking about the number of trips she made getting 5 gallon jugs of gas (2-3 jugs pre trip) so we figured up our gas usage.
1 tractor normally only used for raking hay. 10-20 gal pre year
2 four wheelers. 10-15 gal per year
zero turn mower. 5 gal per week, 24 weeks of mowing season = 120 gal per year
2 lawns plus about 5 acres around the barn lot and poultry barns.
Chevy S10 used only on the farm for traveling to and from poultry barns and other farm use. 5 gal pre week, birds in 35 weeks per year = 175 gal per year
:shock: That's over 300 gal of gas per year we where hauling in 5 gal jugs.
We now have a 150 gallon overhead storage tank our bulk supplier fills, yes the price is a little higher but it's 100% gas with no ethanol so no worries about carb issues on small engines.

For those that may use 50 gallon or more per year, have a storage tank put in and at the end of the year use the rest in your automobile, order fresh in the spring.
Also I dough I'm the only one to roll in from the field with the trucks fuel gauge on empty, nice to have that extra gas there when needed.
 
Gasoline has to have vapor recovery and expands more than Diesel so you can't compare the two. But if you need to haul more fuel why not just go to the junkyard and get a gas tank out of a van or pickup mount it to a pallet ect and have the electric pump built into it.
 
Hmm, have never tried to add a quote from another thread, but gonna try.

John, you wrote this:
(quoted from post at 12:27:51 11/18/17)
Gasoline is considered a class 3 flammable liquid with a packing group of II.
It has a much lower flash point.
ALL hazardous materials are regulated by DOT.
Things like package labels.
Yes it is against the law to haul gasoline in old roundup jugs for this package label reason.
The DOT gives some exemptions for Materials of trade use that allows you to haul home 5 gallon jugs of gasoline but if you notice these jugs still have labels.
For a packing group II this exemption ends a container sizes of 8 gallons.
So in short it is against federal law to haul around a container larger than 8 gallons that once held gasoline.
Yes even the empty container that once held gasoline is regulated until steam washed out.

So in short these northern tool containers are smaller than 119 gallons but larger than 8 gallons and have no gasoline labels so they are for transporting diesel fuel only.

And since gasoline is a flammable the pumps are not suitable also. They are not properly grounded to prevent static electricity.

The tank venting may not meet gasoline standards also but that is another subject that requires even more typing on my part.

Well, so far I'm finding that containers up to 10 gallons are allowed. This is according to the EPA, 25 § 130.103 ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION Pt. I (https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-08/documents/pa_dep_ch_130_a_b_c_94_pgs.pdf). I've found the same thing so far for Maryland and Virginia (https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-07/documents/md_portable_containers_26_11_13_07.pdf and https://www.epa.gov/sites/productio...ents/9_vac_5_ch_40_art_42va148_eff_8-9-04.pdf).

Now going back to the prior discussion(s), one of the ideas brought up was the possibility of adding a separate automotive fuel pump and an external connection for being able to pump gas from your vehicles gas tank into a portable gas can, lawn mower, tractor, generator, etc. Another idea that has been discussed has to do with the number of gas cans that is allowed. We know that for the above links, containers of up to 10-gal are allowed -- but how many containers may someone haul on one vehicle?? If I have (10) 5-gal gas cans that make up 50 gallons of gas, is that legal? ([i:1c5a2c9e0a]haven't found anything about that yet[/i:1c5a2c9e0a])

Likewise, what of the possibility of adding an aux gas tank to your vehicle? As mentioned, my Grandfather made two side tanks for his Ford. Nowdays, I doubt seriously you could find the room to do what he did! ...But is it "possible"??

Stepping away from the legal aspect for a moment, let's look at things from a safety standpoint. I would certainly trust the integrity of a steel, DOT approved gas tank over hauling multiple plastic gas cans that are normally left loose (not restrained in ANY way). Have seem lots of pickups with one or more gas cans in the truck bed, with no tailgate or restraint of any kind and with full exposure to the sun. Have also seen people haul a plastic gas can in the back seat (and even in the front seat!) of their car. Yet plastic gas cans, from my experience, have this tendency to leak gas fumes, and sometimes to even slosh gas out. What about someone who doesn't have the hand strength to securely tighten a gas can cap? What if someone loses a gasket for their container cap and doesn't realize it?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you in the slightest -- just wanting to have an open discussion concerning the transportation of gasoline from multiple points of view.

There are SO MANY regulations concerning this and that and everything else that it's difficult to research and find the answers. So for anyone out there who is more familiar with these particular regs, aiming us in the right direction would truly be helpful.
 
The above post was "supposed" to be in reply to this post:

(quoted from post at 13:46:03 11/19/17) Kcm and rustyfarmall

Call me slow or even dumb but I really do not understand your question.

I posted the rules in the previous thread.
If there is a area you do not understand or want me to elaborate on ask away.
I guess if you are trying to debate why these are the rules we could try that also.
 

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