RE : Case IH bring back the Farmall line

NY 986

Well-known Member
I agree with most of the reasoning in the original post. I would like to add that for other than us devoted tractor guys there would be little demand for the tractors that had the classic features we all remember. A "new" H or M could not be built in the classic mold of the ones from over a half century ago. To get the building cost down to where they would have more appeal would most likely building them outside of North America which would affect the appeal.

Many things contributed to IH's down fall. The 560 was fairly minor in the scheme of things. Had the 560 been flawless it was at a disadvantage against a fair amount of its competition. Deere correctly guessed the movement in the volume of the market in terms of HP. Deere put the best of its ideas in the 4010 which was a booming class HP wise. Had Deere done different such as putting the best of its research in the low HP tractors Deere might have become an also ran and its best products folded into a company such as AGCO after the 1970's farm boom ended. Deere also understood the role of financing and its effect on getting product sold. When inflation became horrible during the late 1970's Deere was at an advantage because it only had the immediate costs of offering financing versus being a borrower to another firm and having to tack those costs onto other costs. IH from what I have been told by those who worked on the corporate level there that the vision was anything but unified from the early 1960's onward and a widening rift with labor did not help things.

Enjoy IH for what they were and the classic products we have come to love. The IH of 40, 50, or 60 years ago is not coming back.
 
The rise and fall of IH is covered in a book called A Corporate Tragedy by Barbara Marsh. Sad reading for red tractor fans .
 
Several auto manufacturers have tried to bring back certain models with their "retro" lines (even though they were far from the originals in terms of technical stuff). Most I think have failed. I've often wondered for example how well the various retro VW "Bugs" over the past 20 years have sold. VW though is stubborn and has stuck with a few versions of the original, all getting bigger and bigger. Can you imagine trying to market a 1200cc air-cooled engined car these days? The success of some of the newer reincarnations of muscle cars is mostly due to today's buyers of those rides getting a late testosterone fix by driving something with ridiculous power for most street use.
 
Remember the talk from the mid-1990's when Deere was supposedly talking about running a limited edition production of the 4020. I'm still trying to figure out how much of that was wishful thinking and how much was actual planning at Deere.

As far as muscle cars go a fair amount of those buyers had fat wallets at the end of their work careers so it only made sense to play on their vanity. My wallet is not fat but I am sure I will have a crack at them for a pretty good price as those buyers age and the priorities shift.
 

One can only assume that the molds for the Farmall M have most likely been destroyed, but I still think there is a market for a NEW tractor that is as basic and simple as the Farmall M, or H. No frills, no electronics. Just a basic, good old workhorse.
 
Rusty ...... I think just the emissions standards these days would make even thinking about having anything resembling old technology an
impossibility. All of that stuff is monitored and regulated by computer systems that weren't even imagined back in the day. So the whole
idea is only valid as a discussion topic (and is interesting), but in reality it is fantasy.
 
While this idea has some merit, no major company is likely to invest in the equipment to produce a product having such a limited propsective customer. The number of farmers is on a decline and has been on the decline for decades. Those who were kids and grew up on the H and M Farmall, as an example, are getting older, since the last H or M was built 66 years ago. As an avid tractor fan, who is 51 years old, I grew up on those tractors built in the 1960's and 1970's, and our H Farmall was used on a belly mount mower, and not in the field to any extent. I did pull a 10 foot grain drill one time to seed in some oats in my youth. Not a great many people my age are into that vintage tractor. My father, who is 75 years old, holds 3 tractors in high esteem. They are a Super M Farmall, a 4320 John Deere, and a 6030 John Deere. He has the 6030. I have a Super M. It seems most of the guys his age who grew up on farms hold the tractors from the mid to late 1960's into the 1970's as their "classic tractor" and I think the most popular are the 4020 Deere's and the 806 or 856 Farmall/IH. While I have read comments about how it would be nice to have a no-frills tractor these days, these are not going to meet the mainstream demand. No frills tractors are going to be smaller and produced by foreign firms. I cannot see a 21st century H or M Farmall, or an A or B John Deere, or other make. As was stated, engines have computer controls and smog control equipment on them and we also have OSHA standards to meet, which no tractor from that era would come close to meeting today's safety standards. I fear, a "retro 1950's" style tractor built today would either look so drastically different from what they are supposed to resemble due to safety and computerized controls, or the manufacturer would be "shut down" or "sued" once the first tractor was released to the public.
 
(quoted from post at 11:26:27 11/17/17)
One can only assume that the molds for the Farmall M have most likely been destroyed, but I still think there is a market for a NEW tractor that is as basic and simple as the Farmall M, or H. No frills, no electronics. Just a basic, good old workhorse.

But would it be as simple? No one markets ground driven implements anymore. What good is a tractor if reasonably priced implements are not available?

And what about emissions? They would have to be EPA compliant. There goes the simple tractor. First you put good live hydraulics on it then all the EPA garbage and the casual guy won't be able to fix it. It's going to have electronics.

The impossible dream....

Rick
 
I guess I would be happy to find a brand new tractor under 40hp with decent crop clearance, 2wd. And a gear transmission. I suspect as most of these "utility tractors" are bought on credit. the customer says why not, spends the extra for hydro and all the other options. becuase over the course of the loan the extra every month on the payment is very little. Thus very few buy the gear drive , the market becomes small and the manufaturer kills it from the line.
 
You can borrow a copy of the book from the Pioneer Library system
in your town. Cost me five bucks to borrow it,system obtained copy
from Geneseo College.
 
Rusty.. you would be surprised.. first 2 wheel tractors under 60 hp sales are down, most new utility or under 60 hp are 4 wheel drive. I will order in one of the CHEAPER no rubber floor mats, cheap seat ,no arm rest, gear drive with no shuttle, plain dash not digital. So this tractor comes in with 9 months terms, most of the time it will sit there or be a very slow seller. The folks buying tractors now days are not us older folks on here but the younger generation w "with money" and willing to or want the nicer tractors. Old plain just does not sell. This whole conversation is wish full thinking off a very small group of folks. Just not going to happen. As mush as folks want to talk about old and reliable the new electronics are not that troublesome and engine life is certainly no problem.
 
(quoted from post at 19:32:18 11/17/17) Rusty.. you would be surprised.. first 2 wheel tractors under 60 hp sales are down, most new utility or under 60 hp are 4 wheel drive. I will order in one of the CHEAPER no rubber floor mats, cheap seat ,no arm rest, gear drive with no shuttle, plain dash not digital. So this tractor comes in with 9 months terms, most of the time it will sit there or be a very slow seller. The folks buying tractors now days are not us older folks on here but the younger generation w "with money" and willing to or want the nicer tractors. Old plain just does not sell. This whole conversation is wish full thinking off a very small group of folks. Just not going to happen. As mush as folks want to talk about old and reliable the new electronics are not that troublesome and engine life is certainly no problem.

If folks would just start asking for, and demanding plain and simple again, pretty soon someone would step up to the plate and try to fill that demand. Until then, all we will get is what some non-farmer, corporate type, with his head in the clouds bean counter decides will be the most profitable for his company.
 
(quoted from post at 07:25:35 11/18/17)
(quoted from post at 19:32:18 11/17/17) Rusty.. you would be surprised.. first 2 wheel tractors under 60 hp sales are down, most new utility or under 60 hp are 4 wheel drive. I will order in one of the CHEAPER no rubber floor mats, cheap seat ,no arm rest, gear drive with no shuttle, plain dash not digital. So this tractor comes in with 9 months terms, most of the time it will sit there or be a very slow seller. The folks buying tractors now days are not us older folks on here but the younger generation w "with money" and willing to or want the nicer tractors. Old plain just does not sell. This whole conversation is wish full thinking off a very small group of folks. Just not going to happen. As mush as folks want to talk about old and reliable the new electronics are not that troublesome and engine life is certainly no problem.

If folks would just start asking for, and demanding plain and simple again, pretty soon someone would step up to the plate and try to fill that demand. Until then, all we will get is what some non-farmer, corporate type, with his head in the clouds bean counter decides will be the most profitable for his company.

However, the majority of people are not asking for the plain and simple tractors. Look at MTZ tractors. Plain and simple, and proving not to be popular over here. Even the local Mahindra dealer is not selling big volumes, and the ones they do sell are not the bare bones basic ones. Face it, the reason folks aren't demanding a plain and simple model, is that most folks don't want a plain and simple model.
 

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