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organic subsidies and crop insurance

C

Charlie M

Well-known Member
A few years ago a huge organic operation based in California bought about a 1000 acres from a local farmer who passed away and about 100 acres of it is the field across the road from me. I'm in western NY. I
understand the state kicked in some huge incentives for the venture and they sure have spend a lot of money between buying the land, leasing a bunch of big tractors, irrigation system, drainage and about 400
acres has a fence about 10 ft high. I would estimate they have about $10 million spent on getting the ground ready to grow a crop. There was 3 years they couldn't grow a crop waiting to be able to plant an
organic crop. This is the first year they could plant and call it organic so the field across the road from me was planted to beets. They were unable to control the weeds and now they are making a crop
insurance claim and saying the field is a total loss. I haven't been on a serious farming operation since growing up in the 60's but it sure seems like there is a lot of money kicking around to try and make
organic work. How many of you could make that kind of investment and go 3 years without a harvest.
 
I wish someone would explain to me how growing conventional crops is not organic they all use photosynthesis ,water and are carbon based , biggest myth perpetuated on the public since they said the earth was round ( sarcasm)
 


It's called corporate welfare on a large scale. On a smaller scale local farmers refer to it as "farming the gov't". While I'm not an organic hater, things like this, or the conventional farmers that do pretty much the same thing always irk me.

You can be sure Gov Cuomo is touting it as a win if there was any NYS money involved.
 
The first problem is giving Farm Welfare and Federally subsidized crop insurance to any farming operation no matter what they grow if a person or company can't make it on their own they
need to get into another line of work or go to work for someone that knows how.No sense in keeping the folks in business that can't figure out a way to make things work.Anytime
a handout is given there will be people taking advantage of it just human nature.
 
If they waited 3 years to plant a crop they were stupid. Would have been 3 years of practice and of getting the weed seed bank under control. Could still sell the produce to a conventional place and make a little less money.
I see now that some places are trying to sell transitional produce at a higher price.
Funny how when there is talk about organic vs conventional (with non farmers) the pro organic crowd is big on how conventional guys are subsidy driven, and when you mention that organic folks get subsidies as well they don't believe it.
 
There are a few "organic farmers" around here. The only thing that I can see that they accomplish is spread weed seeds to the surrounding area. There are times that you can't even see the actual crop. I can't figure out how they can make any money.
 
It would be tricky... given roads are used by everybody... and don't think the only revenue for roads comes from your gas tax.
 
(quoted from post at 06:37:30 10/22/17) It would be tricky... given roads are used by everybody... and don't think the only revenue for roads comes from your gas tax.
Click to expand...

Go look up just how much your state collects in gas taxes and then spends on roads taking into account fed money given to states for the roads. Do the same thing with the federal government. The find out just how much is collected by both for licenses, tabs and other fees. Most often most states and the feds take far more in from fuel taxes and fees than they spend on the roads with the surplus going into the general fund to waste elsewhere. The really funny part is they won't in most cases just post what they take in in gas taxes and such. You gotta track it down. They want folks to believe they are robbing the general fund to take care of the roads. They also (the politicians) try telling the tax payer that when claiming that it's only fair to subsidize mass transit "TOO".

I didn't find this out until I was in another forum discussing subsidies for mass transit, especially lite rail systems.

Rick
 
Rick, we just finished our local township budget for 2018. I can tell you that our road expenditures are much more than what we get from the state in "road aid"- or the gas tax. We have 87 miles of township
controlled roads, and get so much per mile from the state.

The remainder of the dollars comes from local property taxes.

Yes, some states do raid the transportation fund for sources of revenue. It could be argued that if the state hadn't taken money from the transportation fund years ago, that the local municipalities would get
more. But in our case, the local property taxes get used to make up the difference. There is a lot that goes into roads, too- not just asphalt and concrete, but snow removal, salt, weed cutting, labor to do
all the above, equipment to do all the above, etc.
 
coonie Minnie


I was not really talking roads or other government built stuff.
I was more talking tax breaks or direct subsidies to private companies to help them along.

Most where I live would get knocked out right off the bat as their home flood insurance is subsidized.
Bass Pro came to town a few years back. They told the local government cut our tax bill or we will build elsewhere.
And on and on.
 
Bruce.
For one you live in another country.
For two I did not say you were subsidized. I said you used a subsidized product everyday.

I bet Kubota was subsidized in tax breaks by the state to build there tractor plant in whatever state.
So you use a government subsidized product everyday.
 
Cookie, in addition to what you said, look at the balance of funding between rural areas and metro/suburban areas. Obviously the rural areas don't have as many tax payers, but the amount spent on roads in metro/suburban areas is astronomical compared to rural areas. Yeah, the roads suck everywhere, but the rural areas seem to get overlooked many times with funding to fix high traffic areas. And you also don't see money that is spent on mass rail transit go in to rural areas. It all depends on where you live.
 
The total spending is heavily skewed to urban areas, but if you look at the spending per person or per tax payer, urban taxpayers are heavily subsidizing the roads in rural areas.
 
I am also in western new York. There is a big organic farmer pretty close to me. Has property spread out all over the place through many towns. I will not comment on the funding but I will say his crops always look pretty poor. Loaded with weeds and don't seem to grow well at all. He has been doing this for many years. I don't see how he can make any money, but I really not familiar with how profitable it is.
 
(quoted from post at 10:53:14 10/22/17)
(quoted from post at 06:37:30 10/22/17) It would be tricky... given roads are used by everybody... and don't think the only revenue for roads comes from your gas tax.
Click to expand...

Go look up just how much your state collects in gas taxes and then spends on roads taking into account fed money given to states for the roads. Do the same thing with the federal government. The find out just how much is collected by both for licenses, tabs and other fees. Most often most states and the feds take far more in from fuel taxes and fees than they spend on the roads with the surplus going into the general fund to waste elsewhere. The really funny part is they won't in most cases just post what they take in in gas taxes and such. You gotta track it down. They want folks to believe they are robbing the general fund to take care of the roads. They also (the politicians) try telling the tax payer that when claiming that it's only fair to subsidize mass transit "TOO".

I didn't find this out until I was in another forum discussing subsidies for mass transit, especially lite rail systems.

Rick
Click to expand...

In NY the current State, local and federal taxes run $.6444 per gallon. Diesel is about 10 cents higher. 64 cents a gallon and they do nothing except collect the tax. Quite a scheme!
 
Got a guy doing that here. He rents every little piece of ground he can. Even the waste ground around the local airport including right out to the runways. They make their $$$$ off the insurance of the "planned" loss. It's based on the average of all of that particular crop everywhere, so not hard to show quite a loss to crop ins. Working the system.
 
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