Totally OT and a rant

Adirondack case guy

Well-known Member
The wifey got an appointment at our Chevy dealer today to address a check engine light and newly developing bearing growl noise that was speed oriented. The check engine light was on from a so called on the bill, solenoid, but all I see of the old part is a fuel tank vent. As you see on the bill, which seams to indicate that two different parts could interchange, but we got charged for both of them, and only got one old part back.
The growling noise was the front wheel hub bearings that I had pretty well diagnosed my self.
HERE is where my rant begins. They installed non GM parts, which they got from the Auto Zone two doors down from them. Duralast hubs, part # DL513121HD, which AZ sells for $89.99 each. Look what they charged the wifey on the bill, $435.90. They raised the price by $255.92.The wifey was there for a bit less than 4 hours and the labor bill was $456 bucks.
Tomorrow morning rather than going to the woods and make another load of wood, I'm going over to the dealer and raise HELL.
Am I out of line here????
Loren
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It's for those exact reasons if it's not under warranty I go to a local shop. My experience is they will throw every excuse in the book to justify their bill. Keep us posted how you make out Loren,I hope you get along better than I ever did and not come out more angry than you go in.
 
I know there are dealers that look at making a profit but I always thought if you brought you KUBOTA in to my shop for service you expected KUBOTA parts. Pretty much stock to that even with the oil and lubricants . Sometimes if a guy had a tractor that he only used ever now and then or was thinking about selling and there was something like an off brand starter that would save him big bucks I WOULD tell him I can install you a cheaper part but let him know up front what we were doing. Looks to me like they just got caught I am with you I sure would not pay that GM list price for aftermarket parts. Parts may be fine but price them like they are. This is a big thing now in car body shops repair with will fit or original. Insurance is pressing for cheap fix so one really never knows what you get unless you have a good friend in the body shop.
 
Had the same issue a while back on an expedition, went to an independent shop and they were going to charge me over 300 for the wheel bearing plus there labor. I looked up the wheel bearing on amazon and could get a motor craft bearing for 189.00, told the guy I'd buy the bearing and let him put it on, he couldn't do it for liability reasons?? They were getting the bearing they priced me at the local Napa store, he called the next day and said Napa could sell me the Chinese knock off bearing for 235.00. Needless to say I will be doing all of my shopping on line and do the work myself as long as I'm able. I understand everyone has to make some money, but they don't have to make it on one guy. Everyone says to support your local business but at what cost? I'm tired of being taken advantage of, so Napa no longer sees my smiling face, and they won't unless I need something right now. By the way the bearing replacement wasn't a hard job at all, may have taken an hour, prolly less if I didn't have to do it twice, but that is another story lol
 
My wife had the same thing happen years ago - took her truck in for an oil change, and they proceeded to tell her all these other things that were wrong. She didn't tell them her Dad was a mechanic (but with cancer), nor did she mention that she liked to help Daddy working on autos and tractors. Well, she asked for the parts back. At the end of the job, before paying the bill, she again asked for the parts. A guy went out back and grabbed a part that wasn't even for that make vehicle!!

Another time, I was honest with a mechanic and said I wasn't a big engine-guy, but did NOT mention that I'm fairly OK at most everything else. So what's he do? Tries to do a run-around and rack up some extra $$$'s. He had another think coming!

Go ahead Loren, raise some hell!!
 
It is normal in business to charge 200% parts. NOT 4OO%. I just got screwed over by a guy I have used for years and the front hubs for a Ford Expedition are $145.oo tops at auto zone. On Ebay they are $119.oo. He nailed me $450 EACH. The bill will be covered in a rant in a couple of days. Think he lost a customer?????? There are at least three other places I can go. I don't mind getting screwed a little but not GANG RAPED. Let us know how you made out. This is like some of the stories you hear about that a news paper or TV station will do. Take a car with NOT ANY PROBLEMS. Tell the shop owner it is mamking a little sqweak cause they loosened the altinator belt. Next thing you know 5hey get four new tires, an engine internal wash, and some other crap and guess what........the altinator still sqweaks.
 
Not out of line at all. If the part number on the invoice has a GM part number, then you should have gotten an original GM part. The dealer should have called you and given you the options. What you have there is pretty much a ripoff in my opinion. I would contest it and if the dealer won't do anything start asking for the manager/owner all the way up to the regional manager for Chevy. Oh, and if you are a social media person a threat of lots of negative feedback should help...

OTJ
 
You would be well within your rights to insist they pull the AutoZone parts and replace them with GM parts, eating the cost of labor and the non-OEM hubs. I don't think either GM or your state's Attorney General would be pleased with their behavior.
 
I just checked Ebay and you can buy not one but two if those knock off wheel bearings for $56 delivered to your door. Mark up is expected but non GM Part is not. Expect every sorry excuse I. Tbe book but don't back down and they will,, I bet.
 
NO your not out a line. I do my own. Sorry dealers don t need my money. Independent shop s can t be trusted anymore out here. RB
 
Not out of line at all. If the part number on the invoice has a GM part number, then you should have gotten an original GM part. The dealer should have called you and given you the options. What you have there is pretty much a ripoff in my opinion. I would contest it and if the dealer won't do anything start asking for the manager/owner all the way up to the regional manager for Chevy. Oh, and if you are a social media person a threat of lots of negative feedback should help...

I am not anti-dealer because I do buy some parts from my local dealer because some of the OEM parts ARE of a better quality that most of the parts you buy elsewhere. I have many stories about how dealers or at least the service managers would tell customers that their cars would need repairs that were not needed at all. Mainly this would be the elderly and single females. Not all dealers are like this just a few that give the rest a bad rap. Just like going to a doctor, always get a second opinion.


OTJ
 
My Dad is treasurer for a local non profit. They own a Suburban. It had a steering fluid leak. The leader of the non profit had dealt with one auto shop for years-had them diagnose it-they wanted $2000 to replace every steering related part on the vehicle. Dad said NO WAY! Took it somewhere else and they replaced a $20 hose!
Give them a piece of your mind, but not enough so you lose your mind...! LOL
 
It does say on the bill they replaced both right and left hubs, which means they didn't bother to diagnose which one was actually the bad one. They did hose you on the part cost in my mind, if it was aftermarket part,I would make them mark it down. The part called solenoid is probably the fuel tank vent solenoid, a common failure on GMs.Sometimes you have to use an adapter harness because the new part is a revised part and has a different plug, that may be the other part listed but I would ask for clarification on that. I don't know their labor rate but that EVAP repair shouldn't have been more than 1.5 hrs charge and the hubs are probably 1 hour apiece, maybe 1.2 book time so it looks like they could cut that bill quite a bit and still be making a fair living without pounding you quite so hard. So yeah I would have a little chat with the service manager.
 
I tried to be nice to a gmc dealer I work for last week. Never again, complete fiasco, lies, price too high, didn't communicate, etc. I'll stick to the guy down the road. At least he shoots straight with me...
 

I am the rare bird that uses OEM parts when possible its the best I can do I built my reputation on it.. I don't see how a dealer would waver form this unless the part was no longer available from OEM are on some kind of long term back order....

You can bet your sweet arse I would have used a OEM wheel bearing are at the least a Moog bearing its gonna cost ya get over it are take it somewhere else I don't need the headache... I would not install the bearing assy if you brought it from AZ don't need the headache I may consider a OEM part but not that garbage.... My shop my rules :WINK:

Evap it is what it is life's tuff all over....

My RANT it became my part when I brought it I can sell it for what ever I want THE parts store made a profit whats wrong with me making one I am now the installer its my problem... Its a long chain of events are you going down the hole chain to complain.

I think the dealers make a repair order so no one can read it I did not even try :(.....
 
If you allow them to leave those cheap AutoZone hubs on there, maybe they are hoping you'll bring it back next year when they fail. I'm not an AutoZone fan, but will say that they do have some parts that are better than others, and those real cheap ones usually don't last long in my experiences. I'd be pizzed off if I was you
 
Before you go make yourself look foolish, you may want to take your picture down, posting the bill with the advisors name circled opens you up to all sorts of legal nasties.

As a person who owns an AC Delco perfessional service center, I can explain some things to you.

Line one, the EVAP vent solenoid. You were charged for two parts because GM decided to change the electrical connector, so a jumper interface is needed. That is what the second part is, and there are likely more than one that fits and that dealer has made a reference to that fact in their system. GM is not good at avoiding redundancy, I keep a list of also fits for this purpose.

Line two, I do not see where they installed aftermarket parts. The hub part number listed is the GM number for a '10 Impala front hub. I see no mention of AZ parts on the bill anywhere. Are you making that leap yourself just because there is an AZ close to them? You seem to be frustrated that they mark up their parts. I have gleaned over my years here that you were once a Case dealer. Am I to assume you sold everything at cost?
 
My wife just paid a little over 200 bucks for 1.9 hrs. labor last week on her check engine light repair. So a little over 400 bucks for 4 hrs sounds like about the norm at a dealership now days. For what its worth.
 
I am like you I hate getting ripped off. I had a GE repair person fix my oven. 108 to show up, 120 for a new igniter, 185 labor for 35 minutes, 45 misc. I could have replaced the part. I didn't think it was bad because it did get hot, but not hot eough to light the gas until there was a small explosion. Still haven't got over that, it was a couple weeks ago. Stan
 
Sprint 6, I appreciate the fact that you tried to explain the bill as it was shown and l'm sure there's a bunch of inner workings that we don't know about in a dealership shop. I expect you're one of the honest ones that do the best you can for your customers. As far as the one in my town, if they're the only ones I got to fix it, I'll walk, ride a bike or best of all drive a tractor.
 
I don't know. Just dam glad I am retired and don't have to argue with customers or dealer. Shop rate was $2.50 when I started working, was $47 when I retired. Is over $100 now. They go through service managers like pop corn at the theatre now. They don't want the hassle.
 
I'm guessing you suspect they used AZ parts since your old parts were handed back to you in their boxes? The AZ part number is a direct match for your vehicle so it does make you wonder huh?
If so, I have a problem with them using an aftermarket part unless advised and consented, and then billing out an OEM part. My guess is since she was waiting to get the car repaired, they did not have the OEM parts in stock so they used AZ's, nothing wrong with that if she was told this up front and approved it.

For the parts prices, the evap parts don't seem out of round. We all know they can set the mark up to whatever they want but dang. Those hub bearings can be bought from a dealer for around $125-$150 give or take, that is walk in price, not dealer cost. Call a dealer in your area with that part number and see what the price is.

They charged 2.3 hours for the check engine light repair. That seems reasonable for diagnosis and repair. They charged 2.5 hours labor for the hub bearings, that seems reasonable too, especially considering they probably fought rust and stuck parts.
 
"What kind of GM dealer do you have? Our local GMC dealer uses only GM parts."

IF that is really true, it is remarkable, and would have been remarkable 40 years ago.

It would be interesting to look at their "books", I'll bet that would reveal they have an active and well-used parts account at every auto parts store in town.

But, believe what you want!
 
I have had my GMC pickup worked at this dealer and the only time they use outside parts is when the part is no longer available through GM.
 
I worked at several ford dealers and we rarely used aftermarket parts, in fact it was very rare. When we did it was on a vehicle that parts were obsolete. When we worked on other brands, sometimes we used aftermarket but most of the time we used their OEM parts.
 
I have never known of a GM dealer to use aftermarket parts except in special occasions.

Something stinks.

Dean, who in previous lives, worked in the parts department of a GM dealer and who subsequently was both design engineer and warranty analysis engineer for GM.
 
I wouldn't want anything Auto Zone if that's what they used for sure. Labor doesn't look bad to me, they're $95., dealer I used to work for was $103./ hour five years ago. If our parts room didn't have it a parts store down town had a/c Delco pts. They rarely got anything from Napa, and Auto Zone and O Reilly's ain't in their vocabulary. Wheel brgs. were probably 1.2 hours each, don't remember what they charged for the smoke test, evap vent solenoid labor was probably .5.
 
IMO, you should have raised h*ll with the dealership first and THEN posted about it on here.
That way you could have told us for sure that they put on aftermarket parts.
As a former Ford tech, putting on aftermarket parts can happen, but when it happened, the customer knew about it first.
 
Had an experience with our Buick power steering fluid leak. We were 125 miles from home, the fluid was running out to the point I wouldn't be able to drive home. I found a Buick dealer they replaced the leaking line and we were on our way. About 6 months later I couldn't steer the car and found the steering was leaking again. I took it to our local repair, they found that the return line was cut and put back together with a piece of rubber hose and clamps. He said that some people would cut the to make it easier to change the other line. I had them replace the line. I called the Buick dealer, they told me that they didn't cut the line. I then called the Buick factory rep, he told me they had no control over the dealers and they could whatever they wanted. He did transfer me to the Buick dealer service department. The person said he was the service manager said they didn't cut the line that I must have done that and hung up. No one had worked on the steering lines before this.
 
part # DL513121HD, which AZ sells for $89.99 each. Look what they charged the wifey on the bill, $435.90.

Makes it sound much worse when you put it that way doesn't it? In reality they only roughly doubled the price of the hubs.

For you out the door with tax, you'd have been pushing $200 for the pair.

Lots better than the OEM hubs which would have cost you $435.90 EACH, though!

I'll admit that's pushing the limits of good taste as far as parts markup, but it's not the 400% markup you make it sound like in your initial statement.

BTW, we have James Provenzano dealerships up here in the Finger Lakes area too. Hear his annoying commercials on the radio ALL THE TIME. I wouldn't deal with him just from the commercials.
 
Sure seems like you got charged for GM hubs and got aftermarket ones. Wonder if there is a way to PROVE it ? Because that would have to be some sort of fraud I'd think. Another issue might be you only really needed 1 hub but they guessed wrong as to which side was bad. The old ones speed sensors get ruined when removing them so they had to leave that new one on and get another for the side that was making the noise. I saw this happen several times at the GM dealership. Sure makes me glad we starting switching our home fleet over to Honda's ! We just don't see these sort of things needing replaced all the time like we did with GM's.
 
So, do you think the OEM parts from GM are made in Detroit? Don't kid ourself, they source them from Mexico, Asia, Brazil, and other places world-wide. OK, change the part number, put it in a different box with a different label, it's still probably the same part.
 
I have no problem with a dealer marking up parts. The have to, to stay in business. However. when they purchase an aftermarket part in a box With a Duralast label on it, not AC Delco, or anything saying Genuine GM part, and after doing a search with that part number for a hub, the only offerings were from AZ @$89.90 and more off if you have an AZ key card.
We bought this car from them used with 51,331 miles on it. part of the deal was all new brakes and tires. It now has 86,688 miles, as seen on the bill. Shortly after we got it these hubs had to be replaced. That was covered by a warranty protection plan that they sold us. Now the second set. AZ clearly states a 2 year warranty on the hubs with proof of purchase. How do we get warranty on them if they fail again. They also replaced all the rotors last fall, because they said they were rusty and pitted. We haven't put 5000 miles on the car since that was done and it hasn't been a year yet. I'm thinking that the rotors they use are cheepies also.
They said the rack and pinion is leaking, but no sign of a leak on my driveway where the car is parked. They also said that the car was caked with mud underneath. It hasn't been off a paved road in the past 3 years. There might have been some Amish horse poo under it though. Lots of Amish road apples in this area.
Loren
 
They my be made in same plant but the material used in the parts may not be the same quality. Auto zone parts are not the same quality as GM.
 
I'm sure a lot of people might agree with you but before I agree, I would have to see some kind of proof and that would not include opinions from disgruntled customers, etc. Don't worry, there are countless thousands of GM owners who probably think that GM parts (factory or replacement) are below standards for quality. Here's a story for you. Rumours have circulated for years that Fram oil filters are junk, people love to read those kinds of reports. Someone even had a website about it and was a self-appointed expert on the subject. However, actual studies (with contolled experiments) have showed otherwise. Nevertheless, the Fram filters being junk opinion is shared by thousands. I guess we all believe what we want to believe. If you feel that AZ parts are of poorer quality and if you are convinced, then that's great. Personally, I have always used Fram oil filters and never had any sort of engine failure. As far as GM goes, I solved the problem 35 years ago when I started buying Hondas.
 
Oldest trick in the book for a dealer service department. Any woman who brings in a vehicle gets taken to the cleaners -- unless the husband raises H3LL.

With the divorce rate at over 50% these days they get away with it most of the time.
 
You really don't want to get started on Fram filters. Tell that to the freight line that I worked for. They lost 3 DT466s from fram oil filters failing. They thought they were getting away with buying cheaper oil filter but it cost them more in the long run. They went back to the fleet guard filter after that. I had a friend that worked for a large auto supply and ended up opening his own auto supply. He told me to try Fram. Well I put one on my Buick and oil light would come on when idling . I put a wix on it and light never come on. I have seen a Fram and Wix cut in half and the wix is a much better built filter. There air cleaners aren't much better.
 
totally normal or you will have to do it yourself. i just did rear brakes caliper assemblies on my dodge 3/4 ton 283.50ea from dealer. i got them from my main supplier i use 90% of time same assemblies was 85.55 ea. 20.00 core return if do that. nothing unusual,until you run a business yourself you always think things are way out. try running a business and you will find out that you will be the one receiving H all time. i look at it this way if you want complain about some else prices, then do the job YOURSELF. hear it all time in my business to, or favorite line is can you put it on my account!!!!! which you will never get payment nowdays, that part of business really has changed.
 
Good chance Auto Zone parts are better. The manufacturer is only interested in getting the car out of warranty 3 years 36K miles. Lots of Autozone parts are lifetime warranty.
 
You're making some rather outlandish accusations and offer no proof that James Chevrolet did what you said they did. I've had experience with James Chevrolet.. when it was called Eagle.. same owners. I took my Silverado there for maintenance and repair. Can't say they did anything not authorized, unethetical or underhanded. As with many large dealerships .. sometiimes you have to push back on 'stuff... I'd still be a customer, but don't own a Silverado anymore. I would expect a 'visit' from their attorney .. best case scenario ....you may just have to offer an apology.
 
I wouldn't count on that. I needed an alternator for my pickup truck and Auto Zone test new ones before they leave store and they went through 5 alternators that fit my truck and not a one of them was good. I had to go to Advance auto to get a good one. I would have got one from NAPA but got home after they closed.
 
I read through what everyone wrote and the guys who are in business have a differing opinion. To me if a shop charges a customers 10% for supplying his/her own parts . Then it would seem reasonable that the parts mark-up would be about 10%. Maybe that does not leave enough profit at a large dealership but when body shops use foreign parts and not OEM it is illegal.
 
I haven't had any issues with Autozone and I buy from them all the time. Most of my issues usually start with the original manufacturer cutting corners in assembly. Like GM using the cheapest gaskets available on their intakes, when using a decent gasket (for extra $9) would eliminate their 2 decade long widely known engine issue. Or Ford failing to design a decent camphazer while the after market suppliers got it right years ago. Coupled with their horrible maintenance recommendations they make their design issues even worse.
 
(quoted from post at 17:48:48 09/21/17) Good chance Auto Zone parts are better. The manufacturer is only interested in getting the car out of warranty 3 years 36K miles. Lots of Autozone parts are lifetime warranty.

The brakes I got from them recently were the lifetime warranty ones, to replace the cheap non-warranted ones they sold me before that. Bet your bippy they will replace them if they go bad again. The dealer would never warrant them for life.
 

Until recently, when I started doing all my own repair work, I used an independent shop in a nearby small town. Always were honest and gave me fair warning if parts were going to be costly. I took my Expedition over there a few yrs. ago for other issues and on the way broke both the rear lower control arms. They told me that the Ford part was expensive and the same rust prone crap quality as the ones that broke. He said that I should try to find the parts on-line and they would put them on. I found a racing suspension place in Indiana that had two for less than the Ford price for one and they shipped directly to the shop. They still look like new today.

He did the same with the hydro booster (?) on the Chevy 2500 truck, said it was an expensive piece to replace, but I told them to go ahead with the OEM part as I didn't have time to look for the part, I needed the truck for a big trip in a few days.
 
I've personally seen a Fram filter fall off of a motorcycle, on the track, causing a multi bike accident. I've then looked at several of the same model filter, brand new in the box, and observed improperly cut/inadequate threading. I think this pre-dates the internet, or web page, or whatever you're talking about but I was able to observe the junk with no outside help.
 
I use a small family owned garage for my work now. Been knowing them for many years. The third generation is working there now and they won't rip you off. I have asked to have work and they would check if it was too expensive and have told me to drive it a while before spending un necessary money on it. I recommend them to anybody that asks for a honest person. Tommy
 
All I posted were facts. No BS They put the parts they removed rather crudely, in the Duralast boxes that they got them in, and my post is all documented. No fraud on my part.
Loren
 
I have a few things to add here.
First, if they did use aftermarket parts and represented them as OEM, that is fraud.
Second, as to labor costs, this is my take. I think that the rates that they charge today are outright theft. There is NO justification for rates over $100 per hour. Even so, the charges were not out of line based on their advertised labor rate. You should have known that from the start.
Third, as to the quality of parts, I say this:
They mostly come out of the same group of suppliers.
When I was in the trucking industry, the company that I worked for had accounts with several suppliers. I got plenty of dock time watching loading and unloading as well as some order picking. What I saw was in one case, they had a bin full of heater fan motors. They were taking these parts all out of the same box to go to Auto Zone, Advance, NAPA, and even to the dealer. There was NO DIFFERENCE in quality. They were all taken OUT OF TEH SAME BOX. I saw the same thing going on with other electrical motors. Window motors, wiper motors, power seat motors, and the like. ALL coming out of the same boxes. I asked about it, and was told "we make them for all of the parts houses." No difference in quality, no "special" specifications, and no difference in the parts.
I have full faith in the aftermarket parts houses because they warranty what they sell. There is no profit in selling a poor quality part and then giving the buyer a lifetime free replacement warranty. They would be out of business and bankrupt in short order if it really were that way.

Therefore, the only problem I see is the pricing and the handling of the repair by the dealer.
 

I guarantee you anyone who CAN make a living doing auto repair will tell you there is a difference... I can tell you don't know chit about what you are talking about and blowing it out your arse when you compared a parts house blower motor to a OEM blower motor...

Parts house blower motors are cheeped down about as cheap as they can do it and still be able to call it a blower motor... Window motors come in as a close second...

That won't hunt get over it you could not make a living wrenching... That's OK but don't take out your short comings on those that can...
 
Of course, you know everything that there is to know about automobile repair. Seen it all, done it all. Right.
Well, my good man, I have seen a lot as well. I have handled transported, and delivered those parts that you claim are so different.
Auto parts are made in little facilities ALL OVER the USA. Much of it is contracted out to small manufacturing companies. I have been inside MANY of these little factories. I have seen what they make and how it is shipped, and to whom. I have hauled a few truckloads of service replacement engines from Michigan to dealers throughout PA. I have seen H-D parts being chrome plated at a small specialty shop in PA. I have delivered plastic material to a plant in New Jersey that made dashboards for Corvettes. All through the Midwest, there are small (comparatively speaking) factories turning out an assortment of auto parts for the big automakers. Most of the small electric motors used in cars are made by one of the companies that I had frequently hauled for.
So, in closing I will say that I have seen all of this with my own two eyes. It is NOT something that I made up. It is fact. You can believe it or not, but rudeness does not make you correct.
 

BS... If the guts are cloned then why is it the housing can not be cloned... The aftermarket parts are not the same... The aftermarket can not clone a damm coolant hose its all cheeped down...

Pop a pill and try and make it another hundred miles...
 
As I said before, rudeness does not make you right. Believe what you like, but kindly keep your rude comments to yourself. I don't "pop pills" and I made my 2 MILLION miles hauling all kinds of freight. Now, I can sit at home and argue with hammer mechanics that think they know it all. LOL!
 

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