Transmission question

dhermesc

Well-known Member
We use our van as transport on the farm so its OT but it is "farm" related.

My wife has a 2014 Kia Sedona. Been a great vehicle up until this point at 60,000 miles (warranty went out at 60K). Sometimes when she starts the van and puts it in reverse the van will be very sluggish - almost like the emergency brake is on. Then when you shift from reverse to drive it "slam" into gear hard enough to chirp the tires. Its as if the torque converter is locked up. It will do this then operate normally. The Kia Dealership had the car for 8 days and couldn't get it to do it. There were no codes and the transmission fluid is normal and at the correct level. We have had it back for two days and its done it twice.

It only does this as start up (which is also when you are most likely to use reverse). It doesn't matter if the van has been recently driven and parked for a few minutes or sat overnight.

This van has a 6 speed transmission and it can be manually "bump shifted" or simply put in drive and allow the transmission and computer do the shifting. We have only used the "bump shifter" the few times its been driven in the mountains (lock it out of OD).
 
So what happened to Kia's famous 10 yr 100,000 mi warranty ?

Did the dealer change the tranny fluid ? Dad's Honda pilot made an intermittent weird noise a few tranny oil changes cleared it up. Do a Google search of what you have going on. Maybe others have it too.
 
The 10 years 100K warranty is only for the original owner. If you are the second owner its 5 years 60K. Mine has 60,440. 5 years 60K is the "new" industry standard warranty - companies like Chevy dropped their 100K warranty in after the 2016 models.




I've searched on several Kia sites and posted messages there. They have few transmission issues with the Sedona - both the 5 speed and 6 speed automatics and no one has heard of this. I am betting its "physical" like the shifter is not going completely into reverse or the neutral switch.

Fluid was not changed - it is due at 60K under "extreme" use. They checked it and said it appeared "good". I plan on changing it this week end but everyone is pretty much in agreement that its probably not the issue. I'll change it to see if there's excessive metal.
 
My Daughter had a Hyundai Elantra and When reading their 10 yr 100 k it sure seemed to exclude a lot of things ! She had bought the extended add on warranty. When she got rid of the car she was able to get a lot of the price of the warranty refunded.
Maybe before it goes out completely be a good time to trade it in on a Honda ?
 
Not a solution, more of a bandaid.
Back it into it's parking spot at night.
Come morning you will be driving forward first.
Might minimize further damage if you say it is ok after it has warmed up.
 
I am hoping to avoid getting rid of it. This is my second Sedona. The first one was a 2008 that I ran up to 168K with only one trip to the shop - a wheel bearing started leaking grease and I had it replaced. I only put one set brakes on that van and that wasn't until it hit 100K. This one was working out the same way until this crap started.
 
You need to put a scanner on and see if there are codes for the transmission. If not then it gets harder.

RT
 
Missed that. I've seen older transmissions where a valve starts leaking and the converter partly drains and it has to fill back up. But that doesn't explain the hard shift and short time period. I don't claim to know much. I'm hands on and fairly good at troubleshooting. Maybe I should have stayed out of this one.

Anyway,

A good scanner reads data and that helps. Plus some information on the various systems.

What you need is someone like me that's dumb enough to own a high dollar scanner and doesn't charge much.

RT
 
Some years back, I worked on a Toyota that was slamming into reverse. A plastic checkball had had beat up enough to pop through the separator plate in the valvebody, obviously no longer doing it's job, so all sorts of strange things can happen
 
After talking through it a few times I beginning to develop a theory.


I think the torque converter is locking up when it goes into reverse - that is why it is so sluggish in reverse - there's no/little slip and the engine labors trying to back up. And I don't think its locking up until its in reverse because there's no "slam" or jerk when its shifted from park to reverse. And the torque converter its still locked up when shifting it into drive - causing it to "slam" into gear.


I don't know if the torque converters have an electronic control module or if its mechanical.
 
Not sure I agree on the converter locking.

Had one do that, solenoid failed that locks the converter, made it stay locked in.

With the converter locked, it would kill the engine as soon as you put it in gear, like stopping with a standard and not releasing the clutch.

I'm going with the converter draining down, or front pump draining, getting air in the system. With air in a servo, the pressure is slow to build, the input component is already spinning when the clutch or band applies, giving it a sudden "slam" to the output.

Was the filter (if it has one) recently changed? Possibly the oring seal was left out?

Just guessing, not familiar with that transmission.
 
If it were draining down I could see it doing that at cold start ups all the time. But it has only done it once when it sat overnight and the rest of the time when its only been sitting a short time (half an hour to an hour). At first we only thought it was doing it when it was restarted when hot.


Nothing has been serviced on this transmission - yet. When they started poking around on it they found the transmission was a quart low - no leaks and no one has messed with it since it was new. Filled a quart low at the factory?

I am hoping its a solenoid that's is failing - as apposed to pulling the transmission and replacing the torque converter.
 
If your Kia transmission is anything like my ford transmission I would say change your fluid regularly and forget about it. My ford has the same problem usually new fluid will stop it for quite sometime but the problem keeps coming back. It has been doing it for over 240k miles and 10 years. I just got in the habit of changing the fluid every year whether it needs it or not and adjusting my driving accordingly. Not a true fix or answer to question but it works for me. New engine and transmission mounts may help some as well.
 
Now that everybody else has had their say, I will give you my guess. After having been repairing automatics for about 45 years, I have a good idea how they work...
First thing is that there is NO PROBLEM with the torque converter. If it were staying locked, it would simply kill the engine when you put it in reverse. Just like a manual if you were to let the clutch out too fast.
Next, sluggish in reverse could amount to two main possibilities that I see. One would be the converter draining back. In this case, you can verify that by letting it idle for a minute or so when you start it before trying to put it into gear. Another possibility is that a friction element like an intermediate or direct clutch could be hanging up. This would give the effect of trying to be in two gears at the same time thus causing sluggishness.
Next, slamming into the forward gear. This would also point to a sticking or hanging up of a friction element that is used in a higher gear than first. In order to diagnose something like that, I would need to take a close look at a power flow chart for that transmission. That might shed some light on the cause of the problem.
Next, as to changing fluid. I personally do not think that it will have any effect on the problem. And, not all filters can even be changed without disassembly of the transmission. The Mazda/Ford CD4E is like that. The filter on that one is inside and requires you to remove the transmission and separate the case halves to access it. Either way, changing fluid is probably not going to help anything, and if you do not refill it with the correct fluid, you could damage the transmission. I strongly recommend against these "flushing" outfits. First thing is that they cannot completely flush a unit - no matter how much they say they can. Next, what are they refilling your transmission with? The correct fluid? Most likely not.
Bear in mind that there are quite a few different types and specifications of transmission oil out there these days. I consider that the manufacturer most likely has a GOOD reason for specifying a particular oil.
 
If it is the a friction element hanging up how is something like that repaired? Drop the transmission and tear it down?

Yes this transmission has a "built in" filter. All you change is the fluid. I agree changing the fluid probably isn't going to help and the fluid that goes into this thing is SP IV I think its compatible with Mercon LV - Valvoline Maxlife has a fluid that is compatible with both. The actual Kia transmission fluid is $17 a quart. You pretty much change this 4 quarts at a time. The transmission does have a drain plug but no dipstick - you check the level like an old M Farmall by opening a cap on the side of the transmission - if its full the oil runs out, if its not full you pump oil in until runs out..... Welcome to 1939.
 
Keep in mind that Kia probably does NOT build their own transmissions. They most likely buy them made to their spec from one of the bigger manufacturers. Mazda, JatCo, and Matsushita come to mind.
If a friction element is hanging up, it would require disassembly to repair. That would usually indicate that the element in question has already reached the end of its useful life. When clutches get thin, the piston can extend too far and potentially cause a hanging up condition. Not common, but possible. A worn out band can cause the servo that applies it to extend too far and also potentially hang up. In any case, the problem may have to get worse before it gets better.
Over the years, I have seen some really strange things in automatic transmissions. Most of today's transmissions are put together more like a wrist watch than as a heavy piece of equipment.
 

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