New Tractor Proces Make It Easy.....

Went to the WV State Fair today and gawked at the latest equipment there, including new tractors. WOW - from my wallet's point of view, 65-90ish PTO hp tractors were tagged for special event pricing from $38K to over $68K

I told my wife, I think you could go through an equivalent hp IH, JD, Case, Oliver or AC tractor, including buying it for a fraction of that money.

Been window shopping my IH 756 for an engine rebuild or replacement. Those prices make me think it's an easy button to refurb my tractor and probably have a better, longer lasting one too at the end of it.

Question is - what model tractor would you buy in the 70-100 PTO hp, how much would you consider spending to buy it and from there, how much $$$$'s would it take to make it a reliable, like new tractor for years to come?

Say a JD4020 or an IH826 - comparable machines. Could you buy one of these, pour $$$$'s into it and have a like new tractor and how much would that take, including purchase price, $15k, $20k, $30k or better off spending $50k+ on a new tractor?

I'm of the opinion that an 06, 56, 26, 66 and 86 series Internationals have to be a good, low cost long term investment - purchase and rebuild out there today. I just get the impression they were overbuild, powerful and sound enough to plow some goodly $$$$'s into to get as good or better tractor as some of these new tractors of equal hp - assuming you can live with an open or crude cab, noisy, but heavy duty old iron tractor.

Where's the tipping point on $$$$'s to buy and rebuild/refurb an old iron tractor of 70-100 hp vs buying new?

Just curious.

Bill

Very difficult to recoup refurb investment if you decide to sell soon after or heaven forbid a family member has to sell for you.

Depends on use. The price of new machines is not cheap, but it's made much easier though tax advantages. Buy em, depreciate them, trade them in while they are still worth something. It's painful to someone like myself that believes in keeping equipment in good shape and running forever, but it works. Folks who do it right pay pennies on the dollars and always have new equipment that in theory doesn't break. I'm no accountant so I can't explain in detail, but I've seen it done.

Do you think you can get your money back on a new tractor?Buy a new tractor park it in the shed and you take more of a hit than you'll ever take on an old one if you needed to sell it.

It makes a big difference what you will be using the tractor for and how many hours will you put on the tractor per year. For part time farming 40 acres of hay ground and winter feeding cattle, with several other smaller tractors, your 756 gas tractor is a nice choice. For winter comfort I would add a Heat-Houser or a heated cab with removable doors and windows.

Not a great answer for you but:

Recently has my MF165 totally overhauled (gasser, less hp- but gave mechanic the instructions "if it is something that needs doing...do it". Everything but the paint. And he did nearly everything. - total outvof frame overhaul. Tranny, pto, hydraulics...Ended up right at 9 grand.

I have new tractors , and old tractors. As has already been said , what do you need the tractor to do ? I have a IH 966, great old 100hp tractor . It spreads manure , and runs the forage harvester, gave 9 grand for it 12 years ago , Put on new tires and a few small repairs as needed and works good, probably get most of my money back out of it too. But you don't wnt to have to do some jobs with it, like hauling grain or hay wagons down the road, no synchronize trany, and it is hard to get a load going in road gear, the tractor is loud and no AC.
My newer tractors have full power shift, getting a load up to speed on the road no problem, also have air and 4wd , with higher volume hyd pumps too. Very quiet and comfortable down sides is , they cost about ten rimes the $$$ .And I will no way get back what I paid , but no down time , and no repairs either. All comes down to what you need , and what you can put up with, and afford.

Yes - the thought is you'd never recover your investment selling, however - using $20K as a total investment, you've not spent, say $40K on a new tractor. Your overhead is lower as well as your break even point it would seem to me. Doubtful the new tractor would last, much less retain its value either.

Repairs - I get it that when a tractor has to run, it has to run. Larger acreage, easier payback - I assume, so new makes sense. Heck - my JD5055d I bought new. I was glad to get it as the tractor was/is one of the last without emissions, onboard computer and all sorts of electronics. But a Hyundai cost more than that tractor!

It's just kind of cool IMHO that these late 60's thru the 70's of row crop tractors were built so stout that they lend themselves to repeated rebuilds and in someways are competition to new tractors.

I have a 4020, 3020, 2510, and 2010. All have had plenty of money spent on them. I have yet to make it through the summer without one or two of them going down for repair. So the new holland I bought new gets used every day, and the old green ones just take turns. Getting the job done, but never know just which one will be ready!

I am seeing more and more rebuilds in my area every day,I completely rebuilt a Ford 7000 for a customer back in the spring. We rebuilt the engine,new clutch, some new transmission parts. Axle seals and front end work.He spent about $5500.00 bucks,but he loves his new tractor.I have another 7000 in the shop now and a 6610. Same deal. We just did a 4600 Ford. One of my customers Just bought a new John Deere this spring. Got ready to roll bale hay. Tractor had no power. He called the dealer and they had to come 75 miles to reprogram the computer,the next day. Buy the way ,I live less than 50 miles from the WV state fair.

We do 25 acres of hay. Have a JD 4010 and 4020 for the big work. Bought the 4010 first. Have put a new clutch in + rebuilt the injector over 20 years. 4020 no repairs yet. It is handy to have 2 machines so there is a backup. 4010's are relatively cheap to buy as they do not have the 4020 fame. If you have space, buy 2 good machines and fix things when needed. Keep going with the other. We all know even brand new machines go down. the drawback of mine are no cabs. Everything I own was bought used and repaired as needed to run like new. Yes, it takes time but no way could I have got into farming any other way. Knock on wood, I rarely have breakdowns, due to stepped up maintenance on my part. i can say that if you run things not too hard, pay attention to how the machines are running, do the maintenance and easier repairs, the dependability is very high as well as the personal satisfaction.

Older tractors do not have electronics or emmision controls.

Click on the email in the lower right hand (classic view), I'd like to get your contact.

Thanks,
Bill

The BTO are going to buy new, or lease it, so they have the warranty. They will use the cost to their credit on taxes, however that works, and trade it in a couple years. When you're dealing in millions, or tens of millions gross, a $75K tractor is a drop in the bucket.

Us po'folks that scan the ads for the $1200.00 basket case and try put as little money as possible into it and get by for another year. Just the way things are. I'm just thankful we have the internet these days to comparison shop for the best price/shipping or get parts from over seas.

Easy, hands down, and be done with it, Ford 6000!

(quoted from post at 05:10:11 08/13/17)
Older tractors do not have electronics or emission controls.

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Bingo! This spring I decided to bite the bullet and buy one new tractor and go ahead and spend $75,000 for A/C and no headaches. Looked around and about decided on a JD. good salesman, so I asked him how he would compare JD and a Kubota. His response: "It all depends on the dealer, eventually you will have electronic problems and will have to have a dealer".

I slapped my forehead and did not consider buying new anymore. Same reason I won't buy a new diesel pickup.

I bought an Oliver 1650D earlier this year for $3,900. It needs a little TLC here and there, but has nice paint and new rear tires. It is going to handle what I need to do for not a lot of money.

I bought a 105 horse White 2-105 last year for $9000. New tires and working air,4200+ hours. It should last me the rest of my days. A 2-85 would be the same tractor without a turbo,just 85 horse. It's getting hard to find a nice one though.

Oh my? Which brand of tractor to buy?

I put in three years as a Massey/Allis Chalmers mechanic...two years as a Ford/Case/Steiger mechanic..and nearly 20 years as a John Deere tech....I have worked on many brands of tractors and combines from Allis to Zetrac. My opinion is they are all junk!!

If you like red iron..then the old Internationals ain't too bad a machine. My big gripe on the models mentioned(06/56/66/86) is the torque amplifiers ain't the toughest two speed around(and is the last thing out of the front half of the transmission..as in a double split)

John Deere 4010/4020 models are decent enough tractors if in good condition...not too bad to work on. I own a 4010 myself..and have a fellow's 4020 in the shop right now with the top-shaft out of the transmission and on the bench.

Ford New Holland has some decent enough tractors in about all horsepower ranges and eras...some models stink to work on.

Allis Chalmers is pretty much defunct and you would rely on whats left in Agco inventory or aftermarket for new parts. I own an Allis too...however it's a cute little 5020 made in Japan. Parts are scarce for my particular model!

Oliver and Whites are same as Allis Chalmers...all absorbed by Agco...although Oliver lovers are Oliver lovers...I have a buddy that's an Oliver lover...and I have an Oliver 1950 in the shop right now with it's 453 Detroit engine scattered across a work bench. I don't understand Oliver folks..and don't particularly like the brand! They are/were good tractors though

I was born and raised running Internationals and Case...but unless it's and older Case don't much like working on them.

The Massey Fergusons...eh?...Bleh?...The smaller ones are tough as can be...The bigger ones are what they are. Lots of folks like the Might-Fines....

As mentioned...they are all perfectly capable of being junk and potential sources for scrap iron. I would choose whichever brand/model trips your trigger then do a bit of research about just how much dealer support exists and parts availability etc. Then try buy a good/decent version of what you like.

One thing about it,if you look around for something nice in a used tractor,it won't loose much value over the years. This whole idea of buying a Deere because "I know it'll hold it's value",well,they all will. Just the initial investment will be less in the first place on other brands.

I have three tractors that are in a sense,interchangable on most jobs. I've got the Oliver 1850 that I paid $5700 for twenty years ago,a White 2-105 that I gave $9000 for last year and a White 2-135 that I traded for 15 years ago,but they were asking $10,000 for that one. Add that all up and what could you get in a new one for those dollars in any brand? How long would you wait to get one fixed in peak season if it broke down? I can tell you this,I bought a new one in 1981. It needed transmission work in peak season in the spring of 91. I didn't have a backup. I had to rent one by the hour. There's a whole lot more peace of mind in knowing that all I have to do is pull a draw pin and tow something out of the way then hook something else on if I have to so I can get the job done. I make a living selling cattle,not by driving a certain new tractor.

"I don't understand Oliver folks.."

con?trar?i?an

kənˈtre(&#601r?ən/

noun

noun: contrarian; plural noun: contrarians

1.
a person who opposes or rejects popular opinion.
adjective
adjective: contrarian

1.
opposing or rejecting popular opinion; going against current practice.
"the comment came more from a contrarian disposition than moral conviction"

Well I my self will go with the new machine. I don't like turning wrenches and I don't like down time. That's not to say that I have not had down time with new equipment...When that happens I call the dealer .. they cover the issue usually under warranty.. not always but I will not run older equipment. I'm not trying to start a fight but I get better results with the way I run my business. I use the investment for my business along as mentioned earlier a tax write off ... along with anything else my accountant says I can do. I'm not a big operator but I believe in new equipment up to date more production... . It works for me... I also get more money towards my next purchase which I like. I loose less and also have up to date equipment that I can and enjoy using.. The older equipment may work for some but I found that when I did use older it caused me more headaches then imo it was worth. I'm no into waiting on a piece of equipment that has to be rebuilt every time you want to work. Time is money and money is time. My time is limited..... New for me.

Bill - your topic question says make the choice easy....

Well there is an easy way to do that. Make the farm itself pay for every farm related purchase from tractor purchases, repairs, equipment, and all maintenance on all equipment. In other words use absolutely no dollars from your regular career job and household budget to do the farming and the choice will likely then be quite clear.

This is the way I operate (more like piddle) and it is why I end up running what I run.

Good one rrlund.

Like I said,in a tractor,you have to shop around for something nice,but in equipment,I agree with you. The life expectancy of some of the equipment it relatively short. My hay tools especially are bought new. In real terms of down time in tractors though,having more than one that can do the job is better than having one new one sitting in the shop for a week or more in peak season.

Tell the truth now when you make this choice,new Mahindra or used 4240 Deere?

(quoted from post at 13:19:23 08/13/17) Bill - your topic question says make the choice easy....

Well there is an easy way to do that. Make the farm itself pay for every farm related purchase from tractor purchases, repairs, equipment, and all maintenance on all equipment. In other words use absolutely no dollars from your regular career job and household budget to do the farming and the choice will likely then be quite clear.

This is the way I operate (more like piddle) and it is why I end up running what I run.

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If that was my choice, I'd be living in an apartment in town. The only way I see that being possible is if daddy hands you the farm and it's already stocked with machinery and livestock and all the buildings and infrastructure are in good repair and there's a healthy bank account or at least a line of credit sitting there for you to use. One real wet or dry year, a bad winter or the bottom dropping out of your market in the normal cycle of things can bust most people. I know there are people that seem to have that Midas touch and everything they do comes out better than anyone ever thought possible, but those folks are few and far between and if you do a little investigating, you usually discover they have an outside income source they don't talk about.

Well I have to agree with you about having more then 1 tractor. I have acess to 2 more .. late models. As far as choosing between the new Mahindra or the used 4240 Deere?? Neither! I don't like Mahindra.. and even though I'm a Deere man .. it's to old for me .. and I ownly run 4WD!

(quoted from post at 11:37:35 08/13/17)

I put in three years as a Massey/Allis Chalmers mechanic...two years as a Ford/Case/Steiger mechanic..and nearly 20 years as a John Deere tech....

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Okay, I just have to ask- Why were you a "mechanic" everywhere but at the Deere shop where you were a "tech"? I don't know when "mechanics" became "technicians" but I imagine it was the same period where "garbage men" became "sanitary engineers" and "waiters and waitresses" became "servers". The only change besides the name appears to be that "mechanics" used to actually diagnose and repair problems and "technicians" seem to do whatever the computer tells them to do!

(quoted from post at 13:48:23 08/14/17)

(quoted from post at 13:19:23 08/13/17) Bill - your topic question says make the choice easy....

Well there is an easy way to do that. Make the farm itself pay for every farm related purchase from tractor purchases, repairs, equipment, and all maintenance on all equipment. In other words use absolutely no dollars from your regular career job and household budget to do the farming and the choice will likely then be quite clear.

This is the way I operate (more like piddle) and it is why I end up running what I run.

Click to expand...

If that was my choice, I'd be living in an apartment in town. The only way I see that being possible is if daddy hands you the farm and it's already stocked with machinery and livestock and all the buildings and infrastructure are in good repair and there's a healthy bank account or at least a line of credit sitting there for you to use. One real wet or dry year, a bad winter or the bottom dropping out of your market in the normal cycle of things can bust most people. I know there are people that seem to have that Midas touch and everything they do comes out better than anyone ever thought possible, but those folks are few and far between and if you do a little investigating, you usually discover they have an outside income source they don't talk about.

Click to expand...

Where did I say anything about not borrowing for land or a farm? Those are almost always long term investments that will likely pay off over time as investments and therefore do make sense to borrow.

Borrowing for tractors and equipment makes sense too if that is how you make your living. That said all tractors and equipment do nothing but depreciate. Yeas a JD 4020 sells for more now than it did new but $10K was a lot of money in the 1960's but that same $10K today is not all that much buying power due to devaluation of the dollar. Farming is not even remotely how the OP makes his living though nor how I make my living either.

Heck by your logic I should get a 2nd job so I can buy expensive tractors I do not need. I should work 16 hours a day for the privledge of owning an $80,000 tractor to use in my leftover free time. I can easily make my piddle hobby farm pay for a few hundred dollar Farmall h or Farmall m....however my piddle hobby would not pay for an $80K tractor in my lifetime and I have zero desire to funnel my household income towards it either.

(quoted from post at 00:14:41 08/15/17)

(quoted from post at 13:48:23 08/14/17)

(quoted from post at 13:19:23 08/13/17) Bill - your topic question says make the choice easy....

Well there is an easy way to do that. Make the farm itself pay for every farm related purchase from tractor purchases, repairs, equipment, and all maintenance on all equipment. In other words use absolutely no dollars from your regular career job and household budget to do the farming and the choice will likely then be quite clear.

This is the way I operate (more like piddle) and it is why I end up running what I run.

Click to expand...

If that was my choice, I'd be living in an apartment in town. The only way I see that being possible is if daddy hands you the farm and it's already stocked with machinery and livestock and all the buildings and infrastructure are in good repair and there's a healthy bank account or at least a line of credit sitting there for you to use. One real wet or dry year, a bad winter or the bottom dropping out of your market in the normal cycle of things can bust most people. I know there are people that seem to have that Midas touch and everything they do comes out better than anyone ever thought possible, but those folks are few and far between and if you do a little investigating, you usually discover they have an outside income source they don't talk about.

Click to expand...

Where did I say anything about not borrowing for land or a farm? Those are almost always long term investments that will likely pay off over time as investments and therefore do make sense to borrow.

Borrowing for tractors and equipment makes sense too if that is how you make your living. That said all tractors and equipment do nothing but depreciate. Yeas a JD 4020 sells for more now than it did new but $10K was a lot of money in the 1960's but that same $10K today is not all that much buying power due to devaluation of the dollar. Farming is not even remotely how the OP makes his living though nor how I make my living either.

Heck by your logic I should get a 2nd job so I can buy expensive tractors I do not need. I should work 16 hours a day for the privledge of owning an $80,000 tractor to use in my leftover free time. I can easily make my piddle hobby farm pay for a few hundred dollar Farmall h or Farmall m....however my piddle hobby would not pay for an $80K tractor in my lifetime and I have zero desire to funnel my household income towards it either.

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I'm not endorsing the idea of spending $80K. I'm just disagreeing with the idea anyone can "make the farm pay for itself", as though we aren't trying to do that already! As far as the 16 hours a day, well, we're already working that so I guess your "hobby farm" is in fact, just a hobby. If it wasn't for outside income most people would never be able to get a farm unless daddy handed it to them. "Just make the farm pay for itself". Huh, why didn't anyone else ever think of that?!!! :roll:

(quoted from post at 15:37:11 08/14/17)

(quoted from post at 11:37:35 08/13/17)

I put in three years as a Massey/Allis Chalmers mechanic...two years as a Ford/Case/Steiger mechanic..and nearly 20 years as a John Deere tech....

Click to expand...

Okay, I just have to ask- Why were you a "mechanic" everywhere but at the Deere shop where you were a "tech"? I don't know when "mechanics" became "technicians" but I imagine it was the same period where "garbage men" became "sanitary engineers" and "waiters and waitresses" became "servers". The only change besides the name appears to be that "mechanics" used to actually diagnose and repair problems and "technicians" seem to do whatever the computer tells them to do!

Click to expand...

Just what they called us at John Deere...Not like Deere wanted folks calling the Mech/techs 'grease-monkeys'!! Which is probably racist or some-such

Hey Bret,I think some places "down state" they're calling them artisans!