Getting a Car Painted (no body work) is EXPENSIVE. Why?

nrowles

Member
I am thinking of buying a 1965 Mustang. The car has absolutely no existing rust. The seller painted the car himself and said he didn't have the pressure right and it came out inconsistent. I called a local body shop to see what it would cost to paint this car. Just to paint the outside of the car (no door jambs, under hood, etc.) and NO body work he said it would be around $4,000. I understand if there was rust and body work needed how you could get up there pretty quickly, but just a paint job for $4,000!!! Why? I also told him it would be a driver and didn't need to be a fancy paint job.
 
Whole car needs to be sanded well
especially if it's a bad paint job,then
taped off, all adds up to a lot of
labor. Then decent paint with all the
fixings will run you 500 bucks. So
that's that but check around it varies
 
Good paint materials will cost close to 1,000.00. I don't know what his labor rate is, but he will need to sand the complete car. Then when that big bug lands on the hood, and tries to walk out across the hood, he will need to repaint the hood, and hope it matches the rest of the car. You might go to the auto body paint shop, and ask if they know some one who paints cars. The auto body shop has a lot of over head costs, the local guy may not have. Stan
 
Could be he doesn't have the time or the need, so he quoted high as a nice way to say no. Could also be that since it is considered a collector car, he has a bad taste in his mouth from a previous fella that said the same thing you did but was only satisfied with a concur level finish.

Like the previous poster stated shop it around. Go to the local vocational school, maybe.
 
(quoted from post at 09:16:43 07/24/17) I am thinking of buying a 1965 Mustang. The car has absolutely no existing rust. The seller painted the car himself and said he didn't have the pressure right and it came out inconsistent. I called a local body shop to see what it would cost to paint this car. Just to paint the outside of the car (no door jambs, under hood, etc.) and NO body work he said it would be around $4,000. I understand if there was rust and body work needed how you could get up there pretty quickly, but just a paint job for $4,000!!! Why? I also told him it would be a driver and didn't need to be a fancy paint job.

Look for an Earl Scheib near you. Paint jobs start at $400, $600 and $1000. Prep is either $200 or $300. The techs can do a great job. They don't det paid enough to do real prep work, but they can lay down some good paint. Go in, look around, talk to the painter and see some of his work. Tell him for a slick paint job you will tip him $200 or so.

You will then need to do all the prep work and wash it before you take it in. Have it ready to paint. People that do this often get a good paint job.
 
I don't know about other states but a paint shop has quite a few environmental laws to comply with here in New York. To own all the necessary equipment including protective gear for the painter adds greatly to the bill. They are not getting rich when all this is figured in. I asked one guy about doing work and he said while he does not have a sign out in front of his garage that he would never do a job "old school" with today's materials lest he wanted to become sickly and die in short order.
 
Paint and materials will be at least $1000. It will all have to be sanded and properly prepped for paint and then it will need to be sanded
and buffed after the paint to bring out the gloss. $4000 could be a bargain
 
Any body/paint guy I know would not want to put his name on a mediocre job for a 1965 Mustang.
 
Go to Earl Schiebe or whatever one is in your area ? Guy at my old work was a bodyman and he didn't even do his daughters car ! Said it was cheaper to take it to one of those places. He got it all ready to go though.
 
What were you expecting to pay? The car is
a '65, but it's not 1965 anymore. When
somebody cold calls a body shop saying they
have a solid Mustang that just needs paint,
their minds eye sees a car that looks good
from 100 foot, but has tons of hidden rust
packed full of putty with duct tape for
backing. As soon as they touch it, it all
starts falling out, then the owner won't pay
for anything. $4K is a bargain for nice
work at a real licensed shop. As others
have said, the paint and equipment are not
cheap. Chevy dealer I worked for paid $250K
for a clean air paint booth, in 1998,
wouldn't want to price one now. I am
surprised they quoted you, they must be
confident. It is impossible to get an old
Corvette painted in my area, everyone says
NO!
 
many reasons, cost of materials, the last gallon of red i had mixed was 500 bucks, plus all the other prep items that get used too, insurance, labor, environmental stuff, 65 mustangs are one of the best looking mustangs, but even though i work alone and my myself and i live in the southwest, i have yet to see one totally rust free, id get it on a lift and check the torque boxes trunk floor from the bottom, and rockers,ect if rust is found, now is the time to fix it. as to a quality job, it is criminal to put a bad paint job on a 65 mustang! lol! plus it would be just good enough to let you see what it could look like, and that will drive you nuts
 
(quoted from post at 10:36:20 07/24/17) What were you expecting to pay? The car is
a '65, but it's not 1965 anymore. When
somebody cold calls a body shop saying they
have a solid Mustang that just needs paint,
their minds eye sees a car that looks good
from 100 foot, but has tons of hidden rust
packed full of putty with duct tape for
backing. As soon as they touch it, it all
starts falling out, then the owner won't pay
for anything. $4K is a bargain for nice
work at a real licensed shop. As others
have said, the paint and equipment are not
cheap. Chevy dealer I worked for paid $250K
for a clean air paint booth, in 1998,
wouldn't want to price one now. I am
surprised they quoted you, they must be
confident. It is impossible to get an old
Corvette painted in my area, everyone says
NO!

Calm down sparky. For one, the price he gave me was not a quote. I gave him a clear understanding that this was a ballpark estimate based on info I give him. It was also a clear understanding that if there was to be body work or a more detailed job that the price would go higher. The price he gave me was for a car to come in for a more simple (no rust repair) prep and paint.

The seller had the floors, trunk and rear quarters replaced (new welded in) before he painted it. So he has already gone through the effort to take care of any existing rust.
 
There is no cheaper way to do a good job . Don't even ask for a substandard job .Body men don't do that . It is all out or nothing. Who knows what hidden bondo will fall out of a 47 year old ride. Have you even priced a roll of masking tape lately ?
 
Body men don't do that, BOY YOU MUST NOT BE IN MY AREA!!! I have seen some real winners!!!
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:37 07/24/17) There is no cheaper way to do a good job . Don't even ask for a substandard job .Body men don't do that . It is all out or nothing. Who knows what hidden bondo will fall out of a 47 year old ride. Have you even priced a roll of masking tape lately ?

let alone a 52 year old ride :oops:
 
I have not painted a car (or had one painted ) for several years but have heard that $3-5000 is normal. Macco and those cheap out fits from what I see leave a lot to be desired. Past examples were not good!!! I would shop around and find a small private outfit if I wanted a cheaper price. To answer your original question Labor is high these days plus all the cost of material, insurance ,taxes etc.
 
When I had a body shop, I finally made an unbreakable rule that I would not paint a vehicle unless I had done all of the prep work and preliminary work. And I doubt there are many reputable body shops that do otherwise.

I suspect you may not have told the entire story. For openers, you asked for basically a "half-a$$ed" paint job. On a car that old, who knows what might be under the current paint. And remember, when someone paints a car, his name is on the paint job for years.

I had one experience I still recall. A fellow had a VW something or other. Not a Beetle, a boxy bodied one. He had done all of the prep and priming and just wanted me to shoot the paint on it. I started to. I didn't have the first coat done when the entire area I'd painted broke out in "fisheyes". Then it dawned on me, the fellow's brother had a detail shop and most of the work on the car had been done in a stall in the detail shop.

Now, materials used in detailing a car are heavy in silicone. And silicone is the absolute dirtiest word in a body shop 'cause it causes fisheyes in fresh paint. On this car, I tried adding some fisheye eliminator to the paint, but there was simply too many fisheyes. I stopped right there, and told the guy we'd have to let the paint cure for at least two weeks, sand it out, and start over.

Three days later, the guy brought the car back. He gone ahead and hand sanded out the uncured paint. There were sand scratches galore. I told him if I shoot paint on that, all of those sand scratches will show and it will look like hell. He insisted all he wanted was paint shot on it. So-I added plenty of fisheye eliminator, shot paint on the car, all of the sand scratches showed through, and it looked like hell. To make it worse, it was black. Black shows EVERY flaw in prep.

Then, the guy refused to pay the bill, saying I had done a lousy paint job. His brother, who was a bit more astute, finally paid the bill. And the car was running around town with my name on the paint job. That experience led to my policy that if I couldn't do everything from when the car was untouched until the paint job was done, I wouldn't touch it. I had a few potential customers leave in a huff, but I didn't need that kind of customer. I can't imagine any shop that cares about its reputation would think otherwise.
 
Macco was featured on an episode of Undercover Boss a while back.

One of the employees complained that his boss made him cut corners, "get-em-get-em-out-get the money" attitude.

The owner of the company was shocked! Could not believe one of his managers would do that!

Yeah, right...
 
(quoted from post at 11:58:28 07/24/17)
I suspect you may not have told the entire story. For openers, you asked for basically a "half-a$$ed" paint job.

Just curious why you think I asked for a half a$$ed job. I just told him that it didn't need to be paint with sparkles in it and 10 coats of clear so it looked like it had an 1" of glass on it. I didn't tell him to cut corners and do a dirty job. Unless you think not painting the door jambs and etc is a half-a$$ed job which I would agree but it was painted by the seller and much better than it was before.

I don't have $20,000 to put in this car. I would much rather have a driver than not have one at all.
 
When I took a custom painting seminar the guy Rhino from tv told us never try to work in a former detail shop because fisheyes galore.
 
the entire car needs to be wet sanded and taped which is very laborious fussy work. Then......
qt. primer $75.00
primer cat. $70.00
qt. base $145.00 (makes 2 qt.)
qt. clear $162.00
clear cat. $?? (forgot but figure around $70)
reducer $30

May take double these amounts for a car. Labor is a biggie and the spray booth has to be paid for. Remember labor cost is about double what the guy makes with insurance etc.
 
I've had more than one guy tell me that Maaco has some pretty good "paint squirters"- Prep it yourself, buy the materials, and take it to them to spray it on.

Somebody mentioned Earl Scheibe below- didn't know they were still around- I remember the jingle "I'll paint any car for 29.95" back in the day.
 
Collector car guys get collector car pricing. A lot of guys don't care what it
cost.I know a guy that paid 13000 to get a 1970 chevy truck painted with little
body work.A friend of mine bought a 1960 corvette that had pretty good paint,but
had some cracks in several places.He was quoted 10000 for just the paint job.
 
4k is a good price for a basic complete. hes got about 60 hours labor in it and 1200 in materials. all the chrome, glass and trim has to come off. bumpers and lights too. door handles lock cylinders ect. with base clear...you aint tapin nuthin!!. at my shop, typically you are looking at 6 to 8k for a complete, custom is extra.
 
Shop around, who knows you may find a better deal. But I think you're looking for that friend of a friend who's a retired painter and who is now bored. Otherwise people have to make a living at this, run a business, pay overhead, and pay people well enough to keep talent.
 

Body shop labor is actually cheap if you can get them to work at insurance rates... I played body man for 2 years of my life I could not make a living at it and put up with the chit that goes along with it...

My hats off to all the good ones... I did learn one thing from a successful body shop owner that I soaked up well... he said when we were talking about the high price of parts and what insurance co. allow for mark up on parts he said "The more the part cost the more you make"... I quit beaching about the cost of parts :)
 
(quoted from post at 15:08:19 07/24/17) I simply didn't realize there were that many hours in it.

I've painted 5 cars(one I painted twice). After all my time, trouble, materials, and prep I would have been better off taking them to a dedicated shop.

He really doesn't want your business. Yes, it can be done for less, but you won't be happy about the job, and you'll complain later. There is really no such thing as a 'simple' paint job on a 65 car. There IS rust. There are dings, there is some waves in the hood or door, or trunk lid. Trust me, it's there, and as soon as he knocks down the existing paint, he's going to spend 10-12 hours on surface work. Block sanding is all hand work. I bought a pnuematic block sander, thinking it would be easy to get a nice flat surface. Nope, it's all about the hand holding the tool.

If he is a quality shop(sounds like he is), he'll pull all the hardware, and lights. May pull the windows and trim. Which means tape and paper to seal the engine bay, and interior and trunk.

Then clear coat, then wet sand, and finish buff. If you bring it to TX, and aren't in a hurry, I have a very good shop that will do what you want done for about $3000 or so. Another issue is the quality of the paint. Don't let anyone tell you all auto paint is the same. Reds, black and yellows have serious grades of paint quality that will be exposed after 2 years of sun and rain. You don't want to spend all that money and have it fade and chalk up after 2-3 years.

Might be able to knock it down to 3000 but not really with quality materials, that will last. All vintage cars have metal work needed. Right now I have a 63 Studebaker Avanti which is all fiberglass in the shop. I'm NO WAY going to try to scuff and paint it. I can already see some repairs on one fender, and once I start stripping it down, more defects are going to show up. You can't leave them and paint over, or it will look horrible. Don't just throw paint at it, get it done right, or sell the car. If it's a conv or FB, they will retain the value. If it's a couple, it'll never been super expensive due to the number built, but still worth doing right.
 
If it doesn't need to be fancy drive it the way it is. I got out of the body and paint business 25 years ago and $4,000 wouldn't paint a car that old back then and do it right. Materials are through the roof. Abrasives, solvents, and decent paint are pricey. Shops have to make $150.00 to $200.00 an hour per employee plus materials to stay open and pay employees, insurance and benefits. At that rate how many hours can you work on it? 20? More like 10. One day after materials and overhead. Scratch it and shoot it. Paint and body guys are paid commission and not by the hour. Back in the day we got paid 50% of the shop rate. Now it's more like 25 to 30% at the most. So the body and paint guy get $50 an hour plus his tool bills. They own and replace their own. If they can't consistently hit the flat rate they get let go. The shop owner is in it to make money too and if a worker can't hit the flat rate he is packing his iron and looking for a job. It's a cold business.
Whatever is under the paint job that is on it now needs to come off in most cases, but not always. Then bad body work needs corrected. If the last job was done with a product that is an un-catalyzed material such as Alkid enamel or lacquer the new coat will wrinkle everything underneath and look horrible. Everything on top is only as good as what is under it. If the coatings under it fail then you will not be happy no matter what. Problem with cars that old is they have been all been painted more than once most likely and then a home paint jobs is on top. I would bet that the last guy cut corners and used cheap paint. If he didn't have a compressor that would keep up he didn't buy good paint either would be my guess or he would have stopped and corrected the air problem. Just a guess. I could be all wrong. Painting is the easy part. The prep is what counts. If the prep is not up to snuff the topcoat you are looking at never will be.
I used to get people bring in cars all the time that were ready to "shoot". "Just shoot it". They were never happy. Old body work showed up bad, Pin holes in filler, panels not straight, rust that wasn't there, that dent was not there before, what did you do to it, panel gaps were not nice and every time it was a bad paint job and not their bad body work, my fault. I finally learned not to even take those jobs. I referred them to to Maco or Earl Shibe. The days of the inexpensive paint jobs are gone. The last car I did for myself cost me almost $2,000 in paint materials alone. That didn't include body panels, suspension repairs, engine work, drive line work, parts of any kind or any labor. That was just paint materials. The hours were countless and my wife calls it my mistress. I spent way too much time and money on it. It's not worth what I have in it as a restoration. I realize you want a nice looking vintage car. If it isn't too bad now enjoy it and drive it. If you want it to look 5 years old or less be prepared for it to be expensive to achieve and that is just the paint. The suspension will need work, interior as well, and then there is the engine and trans. Cars back then did not go over 100K without a major overhaul of everything. They are not like today's cars that go 300K pretty easy with little care.
They are called collector cars for a reason. They are never worth what you have tied up in them. You will take a hit on every one you sell. If you have the time and money, go for it. They are great fun to drive and heads turn wherever you go.

Greg
 
I made my living at it for over 35 yrs. 1971 > . First question I'd ask is " are you OK with the fact that 6 mos after I paint it for you , it starts bubbling under paint job? Just because no rust shows, doesn't mean it isn't lurking just under his inch thick bondo. Once I paint that car for you , you can bet I will " own" anything that shows up as a flaw in the next two years. As has been stated below, only way I would touch it is with a full sheet disclaimer, relieving me of any and all liability , the same as a home builder would if you wanted him to build a new home on an existing foundation and grade. Also, why don't you ask if you can do all the "grunt work" like sanding and masking , to keep costs down? I found , whenever I had this situation, customer couldn't afford or thought it was tooo much, and I offered to let them "help" themselves out....all the sudden , no deal. Most shops have seen it all and heard it all and are tired of being taken to small claims court over stuff like this.So, yes, he probably didn't want to do it but figured if he had to, it would be $ 4000. $ 1000 just to cover court costs when it bubbles through in 6 mos and you blame his paint. Offer to sign a complete disclaimer form obsolving him of any and all liability and he might lower cost a little ...help out and maybe even more.
 

Do it yourself. I painted my '66 for around $400. about 15 years ago...lol Shooting some paint on it again, tornado damaged the body, this week. Paint from ebay is around $200 for basecoat and then add clearcoat for another $100,and reducer/hardener for another $100 or so. You have to do the body work so account for putty/sandpaper/primer etc. I do a better job than macco etc. Last time.




Did I mention that I frigging hate doing bodywork.
 
OSHA, EPA, AHCA, Workman's comp, 401K, Liability insurance, Property Insurance and taxes. These add costs to all materials and labor and to paint a car you need a lot of materials and labor.
 
(quoted from post at 17:10:07 07/24/17) Kinda sounds like it already has a 'driver' paint job.....Ben

Now that I better understand auto body work I think you may have hit the nail on the head with this one.

I'm glad I started this thread because it has shed some light for me, which is the reason I asked. I was not being arrogant with starting this thread, I was truly curious as to why it is so expensive and now I better understand. Now I have a couple additional questions.

1. If there is that much time in fixing up old rusty panels, why don't the shops just cut out the old and put new panels in? Almost seems that would be easier. Is it because the welds rust or is there something else to it?

2. How does Macco and the such even do a job for less than what you guys say materials cost? Is there that much of a variance in quality and they are buying the cheapest of the cheap and just spraying over the body without any prep?
 
(quoted from post at 23:21:03 07/24/17)
Do it yourself. I painted my '66 for around $400. about 15 years ago...lol Shooting some paint on it again, tornado damaged the body, this week. Paint from ebay is around $200 for basecoat and then add clearcoat for another $100,and reducer/hardener for another $100 or so. You have to do the body work so account for putty/sandpaper/primer etc. I do a better job than macco etc. Last time.




Did I mention that I frigging hate doing bodywork.

Very nice lookin car!
 
The ONLY way I will deal with rust is to cut the rust out and weld new metal in.
 
(quoted from post at 13:17:35 07/25/17)
(quoted from post at 17:10:07 07/24/17) Kinda sounds like it already has a 'driver' paint job.....Ben

2. How does Macco and the such even do a job for less than what you guys say materials cost? Is there that much of a variance in quality and they are buying the cheapest of the cheap and just spraying over the body without any prep?

They buy cheap paint in bulk and literally drive the car in the booth and spray it (dead bugs on the front and all). If it's exposed it's getting painted. They will do prep for extra $$$.
 
I and Dad painted several cars over the years and never sanded before painting and no problems, why does it have to be sanded, makes no sence to me. Same thing on painting most tractors no sanding. And I would never allow all glass to be taken out for a paint job, stupid.
 
The Macco and Earl Sheibe paint jobs that I've seen barely look good from 40 feet and 40 MPH. Very little prep, poor masking, dirt and bugs under the paint, over-spray, runs, etc. Few people would do something that awful to a classic car of any value. Your existing paint is probably better as-is.
 
if you are shooting base/clear, and you tape around the glass instead of removing it, the clear will peel at the tape line. same with moldings and trim.
 
Go here for cheap paint. Time travel necessary.


mvphoto1022.jpg
 
I rarely did insurance work.

I had my own niche in town and had all the work I wanted without fighting with insurance companies.
 
Without reading all of the replies, I will add that the job he does for you will also reflect on him. If it does not look good, his reputation will suffer. So he will not do a cheap job.
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:37 07/24/17) There is no cheaper way to do a good job . Don't even ask for a substandard job .Body men don't do that . It is all out or nothing. Who knows what hidden bondo will fall out of a 47 year old ride. Have you even priced a roll of masking tape lately ?

Been painting over the road trucks for 30 years--you are gonna get what you pay for....nuff said
 
I have had some cars with clear coat and wished they did not have it, would not want it put on. And evidently the only reason to sand before is that clear coat.
 

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