Timing issue

The facts: 1955? Massey Harris 33, Continental engine. Brand new total rebuild at highly respected engine shop of 60 plus years. Firing order is supposedly 1342. #1 piston is at TDC on compression stroke. Fought this thing all day and shop engine builder even came out to help for the last hour. Flywheel is attached in the only way it is designed to go on. BUT timing mark area is past up from the timing mark by about a foot! This must be wrong? Shop rep is puzzled also so I don't feel so ashamed. Is there cause to think the assembly inside engine was not done right? This is not brand specific, really engine mechanic basics. I am not as ashamed since he afirms my concerns. Not an emergency but I have work for the old girl now if I can get it back together. Thanks for any help/suggestions/confirmation that this does not sound right.

I don't know. But regardless of any marking, if the engine is at #1 TDC on compression, then it should run if the magneto is fired correctly and installed, or if the dist. is set so the points are just opening. (And of course the wiring is correct)

I can recall two instances where I wondered if an engine was ever going to start. One was a diesel engine I had installed a rebuilt injection system on. The other was a little Ford tractor a neighbor had been working on. He had installed a new carb, and various other parts, and had given up, and called me. I must have checked timing half a dozen times, as well as everything else, before it finally fired right up and ran perfectly, as I was about to give up, and I HATE to give up.

So, sometimes it happens. Did your engine guy re-check valve action to see that it was correct with piston travel?

So your saying this may not be a concern as long as the distributor is indeed put in right and then timing is checked normally when it runs? That may be. The shop guy departed with the intent to think it over and get back after the weekend. We are both thinking the flywheel should be within a few degrees of being right on the timing mark, not way past it. We both may be over thinking this thing. Thanks so far. Still looking for more info.

If it's installed in the tractor, and you suspect a mechanical timing issue, run a compression test and see if the numbers are where they are supposed to be.

Try the MH and MF forum with your question about specifics.

An old trick to see if valve timing is right on would be to remove lifter/valve cover and bring #1 cyl up to compression stroke. While you are rotating the engine coming up on #1 TDC, #4 should be on overlap (exhaust valve closing, intake valve opening). This should happen right on TDC #1. If a valve on #4 is wide open or doing nothing at all, the valve timing is off... weather it's the cam gear . crank, gear or key way, broken cam,etc. The reason # 4 is the cyl in question is because that is the "middle" cyl in the firing order 1-3-4-2. The "middle cyl should always be in overlap. for instance, on a chevy the firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, so if we wanted to see if the valve timing was off we would look at cyl# 6 to see if it was on overlap rolling the engine over to #1 TDC. It should overlap right at #1 TDC at 0 degrees

Master this and you will never b stumped again timing a engine

You're not going to be able to check running timing without a good mark. But if your dist. advance is free and working properly, and you have the points just breaking @TDC, then timing will be very close.

Timing marks are right on the flywheel but maybe the pointer is installed in the wrong place?????

Well IF the engine is truly coming up on TDC on the compression stroke and the distributor is opening the points to fir, than the marks on the flywheel mean nothing. The trouble is have you taken the valve cover off and made sure your actually coming up on the compression stroke??? The cam timing could be off and your not on the compression stroke. Also did you ever look at the flywheel mark before the rebuild??? Maybe the flywheel has been changed.

P.S. Do not get mad but are you on number one piston??? Just asking. I have over looked simple things myself.

Like the others have posted. If the piston is coming up on compression and the points are opening it will run regardless of what the flywheel marks say. You can mark the flywheel with a paint pen to where it is at TDC and time off that.

I was thinking the flywheel on my MH44 would fit several positions.

If you affix a degree wheel you can find TDC piston 1 and then go to advance timing and make your own mark and pointer.

Since the timing marks are off, you will need to get some idea where TDC is. This can be done by feeling the position of the piston with a wire through the #1 spark plug hole. This won't get you exactly at TDC, but close enough to know what is going on inside the engine. Pull all the plugs so you can easily turn the engine. Hold the wire in the cylinder and feel the top of the piston come up as you hand turn the engine. As the piston nears TDC, you will feel the crank turn more freely as 2 pistons will be up, and 2 down, so at the moment it crosses TDC/BDC, there will be no piston movement, thus the crank will turn freely, the wire will be at the highest position, and starting back down as the crank crosses zero. Just turn it back and forth, feeling the wire and the slack spot , and you will be close enough to TDC.

Read Hobo,NC's reply carefully. That will determine if the cam timing is correct. By watching the #4 rocker arms, you will know #1 is in TDC firing position.

Static time the distributor by rotating the housing opposite the direction the shaft turns until the points just break when the rotor is pointing at #1 cap terminal. Or if a magneto, the impulse should snap at TDC when the engine is rotated clockwise, rotor pointing at #1.

Were the valve adjusted following reassembly? Might check them again, then once again after the head bolts are retorqued after initial start up.

Thanks guys for the inputs. I think I am on track now for when I can get back to the project. I believe it comes to this: I don't know why I had the idea that the flywheel position had to line up with the timing marks. That is apparently where I was wrong. Flywheel is attached only way it can be, now timing marks will help me assure tdc to stab the distributor and etc. Still funny the shop guy was with the same impression as I was. Anyway, thanks again, nice to have a forum for help.

(quoted from post at 01:25:58 06/25/17) Thanks guys for the inputs. I think I am on track now for when I can get back to the project. I believe it comes to this: I don't know why I had the idea that the flywheel position had to line up with the timing marks. That is apparently where I was wrong. Flywheel is attached only way it can be, now timing marks will help me assure tdc to stab the distributor and etc. Still funny the shop guy was with the same impression as I was. Anyway, thanks again, nice to have a forum for help.

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oes anyone know what he just said???