Northern Pacific engine #2584

Ultradog MN · Jun 15, 2017

We just got back from a trip to the PNW on Amtrack's Empire Builder.
Saw this engine at the station in Minot, ND.
The old thing looks kinda tired from sitting outside so long but is still pretty impressive.
Figured you guys would enjoy a couple of photos.

jeffcat · Jun 15, 2017

Kinda big arn't they. At 67 years old I just missed out on all of this stuff. It makes me want to cry sometimes. This engine was built by Baldwin. Some of the buildings of the Baldwin Locomotive Works are still there near Chester, PA. The biggest thing Alco built "Big Boy" #4014 was in California and did not have to much weather damage. Union Pacific is taking that engine right down to the last nut and bolt. Want to rebuild a tractor? Biggest problems that show up on out door displays like that if they want to restore them is the firebox lagging. They have big blocks of asbestos that soak up water and rot the crap out of the 1/2 thick metal. Thanks for the photos.

Larry EC-OH · Jun 15, 2017

Wow! Thanks for the photos.
How did you like the trip? I have always wanted to take Amtrak on that route. It's on my bucket list.

Larry

Dean · Jun 15, 2017

Thanks for posting, UD.

She's a 4-8-4, and an early one. Probably built in the late 20s or early/mid 30s.

She is a dual purpose engine, designed for both passenger and fast freight service.

High drivered, she could probably pull the brass passenger trains at speeds approaching 100 MPH for limited times and semi-heavy freight trains, perhaps with a helper, depending upon conditions, well over 60 MPH.

She was just about top of the line in the late 1920s.

Probably around 4,000 - 4,500 HP.

Fascinating.

Dean

gtractorfan · Jun 15, 2017

Thanks for sharing your pictures. I'm old enough to remember steam engines going by the farm, very impressive! I also remember the first time I saw a diesel engine train go by (1953), wasn't as much fun to watch anymore. I had a print shop enlarge a picture (3 feet long) of a steam engine hanging on a wall here.

PaGlenn · Jun 15, 2017

I remember the steam locomotive going by my school in 1952 when in kindergarten. During recess all the kids would run to the fence and have the engineer toot the whistle. The smoke trail stayed in the air a long time after the train passed. Shortly thereafter when diesel replaced the steam engine no one noticed when the train went by. The steam, smoke and all those parts moving on the wheels attracted the kids to it.

Tech 7 · Jun 15, 2017

Even though our Canadian railroads stayed with steam a little longer than the US counterparts I still missed out on steam powered trains.
Pretty impressive what they could do with boiling water!

Dean · Jun 15, 2017

Below is a link to a wiki article about Union Pacific 844.

844 is also a 4-8-4 Northern locomotive but built later in 1944. She represents the absolute zenith of steam locomotive design in the US, as such design efforts ended in the mid 1930s as it became apparent that the future was in diesel-electric locomotives.

Note that 844 has roller bearings throughout, a significant improvement from the bronze bushings used in earlier locomotives, as roller bearings required less maintenance.

844 is unique as she is the only steam locomotive never taken out of service by a major US railroad. Currently, undergoing overhaul, she will soon (if not already) be back in service on the UP. She operates mostly excursion service but occasionally pulls freight trains.

High drivered and somewhere around 4,500-5,000 HP, she is capable of speeds well above 100 MPH. No one really knows how fast she can go because conditions do not allow such speeds these days.

There is plenty of fascinating utube footage of 844 available. Google is your friend.

Dean
Union Pacific 844

Married2Allis · Jun 15, 2017

What a beautiful engine. Outer sheet metal on boiler is super straight and in great shape. If this had been sitting somewhere in the northeast it would have been vandalized long ago. Humans apparently are more civilized in ND.

Probably the most famous 4-8-4 of all time was the Nickel Plate Road 765 (Lima S2 class Berkshire) restored in the 1980's for steam fan trips. A real beauty as well.

As far as the claim that "844 is unique as she is the only steam locomotive never taken out of service by a major US railroad" ... March 1981 Railfan Magazine claims that the STEAM ERA officially ended on December 3, 1980 when the fire went out in Northwestern Steel & Wire 0-8-0 #73.

Charlie M · Jun 15, 2017

I belong to a small museum here in Rochester - if the guys ever got a hold of this kind of engine we'd never get the smiles off their faces. We have a much smaller one we wanted to get working but needs a lot of boiler work and the cost was way beyond what we could afford. Looks like its going to become a static display also. Steam did a lot of work in this country before getting replaced.

Steve@Advance · Jun 15, 2017

"The steam, smoke and all those parts moving on the wheels attracted the kids to it."

Guess I've still got some kid in me after all! LOL

Dick2 · Jun 15, 2017

I've probably seen that engine going up the track when I was a kid. I was fascinated by the amount of steam they would put out on a real cold day. We lived in the flatland in ND so they would move pretty fast on the tracks.

pete 23 · Jun 15, 2017

Remember waiting at the crossing in Minn Lake , Minn in the 40's while those steam engine powered trains did what ever trains do at the elevator etc. Some engineers apparently weren't as good as others as some would really spin those wheels. Our country school kids took a ride about ten miles on the train to Wells to see the movie Snow White and the seven Dwarfs or Bambi, don't know which. That was the real deal. Now days, kids go to Hawaii or something.

old-9 · Jun 15, 2017

All of these posts reminded me of two things, one my age. And two a trip I took as a Cub Scout, don't know what year, we boarded a real steam train in Winamac , on the old Pennsylvania RR track, headed South to Logansport Indiana. There we were taken on a tour of the Roundhouse in their yards. I was so young I only remember some of it , a huge turntable that could put an engine or boxcar on any track needed. Really brings back memories of my train set. joe

Steamboat · Jun 15, 2017

My Dad worked as fireman, Brakeman 100 years ago.

Ultradog MN · Jun 15, 2017

Well fellows,
I'm guilty of giving you some fake news here.
First of all it was the Great Northern RR, not the Northern Pacific. Second, it's in Havre, MT not Minot. (I had just woke up from a nap and didn't know where I was.)
Larry EC-OH,
It was a great trip. My third time out on the train. First time for my wife.
If you go, get the sleeping car. We got the small cabin with fold down bunks. Kinda cramped (cozy?) but adequate for two and SO much more pleasant than coach. One or both of you must be agile enough to climb up into the upper bunk - we both are so we traded off. They have a bigger cabin too but we were fine in the small one. Great meals included. Plenty of time to talk to folks, play a few games of cribbage in the lounge car, eat, have a couple adult beverages, take naps and gain a few pounds.
If you can swing it, do so. It's a great way to travel.
More info on the S2

hd6gtom · Jun 15, 2017

Another thanks for the pic's.

Tom in NE · Jun 15, 2017

The 844 came through Kearney, NE Monday. It had a load of people from out west and was heading for Omaha for the College World Series. There is another steam engine that runs on the Union Pacific tracks here also. #3759 ??? or something like that. They are big engines! There is one more that sets on a big hill and can be seen from Interstate 80 as you're leaving Iowa and entering Nebraska. There was also a big engine parked in a park in Cheyenne, WY.....don't know if it's still there?

Pappy · Jun 15, 2017

There is a big one in St. Joseph, Missouri. I can't remember if it is a 4-8-4 or not, but it is biggest one I have seen. Back in the '40's, I rode steam trains between towns in Texas, on the A&P Railroad.

Dean · Jun 15, 2017

UP 3985 is a 4-6-6-4 Challenger locomotive, also operated by the Union Pacific.

3985 is the little brother to the UP class 4000 4-8-8-4 Big Boys. She was a heavy passenger/freight engine for use on all but the heaviest grades where the 4000s were used.

Currently, a 4000 series locomotive (can't remember the precise number) is being restored to operating condition. Not sure of the time table, but someday in the foreseeable future we will likely be able to see a Big Boy pounding the rails in the US. This is something that I will do whatever is necessary to see.

Dean

Andy Martin · Jun 15, 2017

Big Boy 4014 is undergoing restoration. Big Boy 4004 is on display in Cheyenne, WY. They were the largest steam engines ever built. UP built 25 of them.

Dean · Jun 15, 2017

Berkshire locomotives are 2-8-4s.

I saw the 765 in the early 1980s and have photos. It's a beautiful locomotive.

Not sure of the Railfan magazine claim, but it is widely recognized that the UP never took 844 out of service, though it was renumbered 8444 for awhile as the number 844 was assigned to a DE locomotive for some time.

Regarding "most famous:" The New York Central Niagaras are widely regarded as the most esthetically pleasing 4-8-4s. Late model, powerful, fast, efficient and beautiful, they are the most photogenic of the class. Lionel once made a model.

My favorite 4-8-4s are the Norfolk and Western Class Js, though I am biased because I took my Mother on an excursion powered by N & W class J 611 in 1994.

Link below. Note the roller bearing side arms. The Js were as modern as steam locomotives became.

Dean
N & W 611

Dean · Jun 15, 2017

The Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) had a major facility in Logansport.

PRR and NYC were consolidated by the feds in the 1970s into ConRail.

Dean

TGP · Jun 15, 2017

(quoted from post at 19:22:26 06/15/17) UP 3985 is a 4-6-6-4 Challenger locomotive, also operated by the Union Pacific.

3985 is the little brother to the UP class 4000 4-8-8-4 Big Boys. She was a heavy passenger/freight engine for use on all but the heaviest grades where the 4000s were used.

Currently, a 4000 series locomotive (can't remember the precise number) is being restored to operating condition. Not sure of the time table, but someday in the foreseeable future we will likely be able to see a Big Boy pounding the rails in the US. This is something that I will do whatever is necessary to see.

Dean

You and me Both!
Can't wait to experience the Big Boy on the rails.

Last summer the Union Pacific 844 is a 4-8-4 Locomotive
Came through Southern IL. on a high speed run.
Was a site to behold!
Tom

Dean · Jun 15, 2017

Though the UP 4000s are sometimes regarded as the "largest" steam locomotives ever built, it depends upon how one describes largest.

There were heavier and more powerful locomotives built, but the 4000s are widely regarded as the "largest."

Myself, I vote for the Norfolk & Western Y6b compounds. See link below.

Dean
Hauling Coal

Tom in NE · Jun 15, 2017

Dean,
ci
I don't have a lot of knowledge about the trains. Thank you for the information! I have heard about them restoring another one and can't wait to see it running down the rails! I've watched the #3985 and the #844 before. I remember back in 1976 for the Bicentennial when Union Pacific were running some passenger cars from Omaha to Las Vegas for the employees. They were using early 1960's engines(streamline?) and passenger cars that were painted bright red, white and blue. All the passengers had their heads out the windows and were waving like crazy. It's something that I still remember.

showcrop · Jun 15, 2017

(quoted from post at 13:54:03 06/15/17) Below is a link to a wiki article about Union Pacific 844.

844 is also a 4-8-4 Northern locomotive but built later in 1944. She represents the absolute zenith of steam locomotive design in the US, as such design efforts ended in the mid 1930s as it became apparent that the future was in diesel-electric locomotives.

Note that 844 has roller bearings throughout, a significant improvement from the bronze bushings used in earlier locomotives, as roller bearings required less maintenance.

844 is unique as she is the only steam locomotive never taken out of service by a major US railroad. Currently, undergoing overhaul, she will soon (if not already) be back in service on the UP. She operates mostly excursion service but occasionally pulls freight trains.

High drivered and somewhere around 4,500-5,000 HP, she is capable of speeds well above 100 MPH. No one really knows how fast she can go because conditions do not allow such speeds these days.

There is plenty of fascinating utube footage of 844 available. Google is your friend.

Dean
Union Pacific 844

Dean, what does high driveled refer to? Big wheels or driver on weed?

Dean · Jun 15, 2017

Hi drivered is archaic railroad talk for large diameter drive wheels.

Passenger engines were high drivered for speed.

Freight engines were low drivered for torque.

Late in the steam era, dual purpose engines, e.g., many 4-8-4 types were suitable for both passenger and fast freight service.

Dean

Married2Allis · Jun 16, 2017

(quoted from post at 17:45:12 06/15/17) Berkshire locomotives are 2-8-4s.

Absolutely, my mistake. The J's were also incredible.

oldtanker · Jun 16, 2017

When the last major player remove it's steam engines from regular service steam was dead. That's how it's generally seen by historians. Doesn't matter if they kept one on the roster. Some smaller RR's ran steam into the 60's. Had WWII not come along steam would have died much sooner.

As far as largest? That depends on who you talk to. HP? Length? Weight? Tractive power?

I must be the odd duck here, I prefer diesels. Yea it's cool to see an old steamer from time to time but they just don't do it for me.

Rick

Leroy · Jun 16, 2017

The Lima engines were built about 15 mile from me. Factory all gone with part of a foundation poored several years ago and abanded because of a brain storm by the mayor that never should have gotten in office but has been in for 28 years now.

Northern Pacific engine #2584

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