(OT) How did we get to this point?

Bob

Well-known Member
Late this afternoon I got a project dumped on me the requires 25' of single conductor #8 wire. (Dewatering during a HUGE snowmelt.)

Nearest "after hours" source for instant pickup/having it tonight was a big-box store which I ain't gonna name 120 miles away.

Idiot_zpszlrg9kdf.jpg"


I had some other things I needed in that town so I drove there this evening, and darned near didn't get my wire because the (IDIOT) in the photo hadn't been trained to operate the big rotating floor-to-ceiling wire rack. We could see the wire I needed but he didn't know how to operate the child-proof controls to bring the wire down a few feet so he could hack a chunk off.

He called the office for help and 20 minutes and three more clueless guys later someone showed up that knew how the operate the gadget and get the wire I needed down to our level.

As a society, we've outsmarted ourselves, IMHO!
 
There's no such thing as on-the-job training anymore. Young folks (mostly city kids) are just expected to jump in and know things, or to at least be able to figure them out. Problem is, kids are no longer taught to be problem solvers using what they have on their shoulders, but rather to solve problems by looking online or throwing money at it by just starting from scratch.

When we moved here, there was a neighbor kid who was really bright and was very enthusiastic to learn. Sadly, he eventually learned a lot of bad things. Anyway, there are other kids that can't figure out how to make change for cash (oh no, that dreaded "C" word!) even using a calculator. Is truly scary to think how technology is moving so far ahead, yet so many of the younger generation can't even get the basics right.
 
Because the masses abandoned the local ma an pa hardware store to save a dime.
We are lucky, on the other side of town we still have a locally owned hardware store.
I travel futher and pay more GLADLEY!!! because they know me when I walk in. Long ago the owner handed me a card with a number and said call if you have an emergency after hours,,, not many of em left around.
 
I'll bet he and his friends don't have any trouble with Windows 10,different people are good at different things no one is good at everything.My sister was never very good at doing farm things like I was growing up but she was/is a genius at Mathematical things.Guess which one paid off the best?
 
Well, there's a certain OTHER big box store whose owner doesn't much care for safety regulations. A few years ago a customer was killed by a falling pallet of tile at one of his local stores. It seems they didn't believe in blocking off aisles when using a forklift in an adjacent aisle. Apparently the 100 million dollar lawsuit the victim's wife filed against the company is still working its way through the courts.

The next time you're in a Lowes or Home Depot, notice how they block off the aisles on both sides of a shelf any time they're moving stuff with a lift truck.
Customer killed at Menards
 
Why didn't you show him how to operate it?
:lol:

I can sympathize with your frustration but it may not have been all the fault of the employee, he many have been ignorant but not necessarily an idiot. Those box stores are notorious for dumping people in a department and tell them to figure it out.
 
It's a story as old as society - Cranky old guys claiming the world is lost because of the terrible young. Maybe he normally works in Paint, or maybe it was his first week there. You obviously didn't step in and figure out the machine, did you?

BTW, We got to this point the same way every generation got to this point - The guidance of the elders...
 
I'm a friend of the lady that manages our local Lowes. Most of the employees are older people that know how to do things - and they know where things are. Go to their orange competitor and the only guy that knows anything is a middle aged guy in plumbing. He's been there so long I guess he's only hanging on for the retirement.
 
That's why everything you buy is covered with UPC stickers so the idiots at the store don't have to know what all the stuff is.
 
Big box stores have the same problem every other employer has. "Unskilled, uncaring employees." If basic skills and manners were still taught in the home and schools we would not be in this position.
 
Kind of related, my wife just commented yesterday that a local care facility only pays young employees $8 an hour and expects them to do the dirtiest jobs- you can imagine what that entails.
 
A couple thousand years ago, Socrates complained about teenagers being disrespectful to their elders.
 
Society has created all this. Single mothers are way up from the past. Children do need two parents to raise them. Women and men do not think alike. A lot of kids don't have anyone to learn from. Kids do want to learn but the way society is its almost impossible for them to learn the basic things of life. Young people don't know how to work. There to busy with there Ipods, phones, internet to do anything else, A lot of this is also the press. They have the notion you should think like they do period. If you could get the press to be honest and objective you would see some very good changes in society but for now we just hope some thing changes. Lawyers and the press controlling everything doesn't make for a healthy society. Just really sad.
 
After hours you get the new hires and part-timers that many employers don't bother to train.

I've had good luck with placing an online order. I get an email when the item is ready for pickup at the customer service desk, or I can opt for one day shipping to my door. Orders places at night are often delivered the next afternoon.

What is that old-timers used to say "A lack of planning or maintenance on your part does not necessarily create an emergency on my part".
 
The comment about on-the-job training is so true. Companies don't want to do it, its expensive and they don't want to spend the money. Easier to complain about there not being qualified workers.
 

The business that I owned for 25 years provided a very specialized service. It was extremely rare to hire someone who knew the work so there was a lot of training involved for a new hire. Training was typically riding with myself for for 2-3 days initially, then with the other techs for three weeks, then starting to do shorter nearer routes on their own. The toughest thing was to get them to call when they needed help. They had a service report form that served as a check list to get them through the PM step by step. I used to have to get propane cylinders for my forklift refilled pretty regularly at my local hardware. I thought that it was kind of sloppy of them that I so frequently to instruct a new kid how to do it. I used to always wear a uniform, and nearly every time I went in there another customer would ask me where to find something, And I usually took them to it.
 
Bob,
Many people like to rant about different stores, either they like them or hate them. I have two stores to pick from Lowes and Menards. Menards is 3 miles away, Lowes on the other end of town.

Menards is my first go to place. I notice in the morning many of the same workers that stock shelves are the same people that help you.

There was a time Lowes workers were not stocking shelves.

I know many of the workers at Menards, I'm there almost daily. Some workers jokingly say I'm there more than they.

I find each department has many employees that are there for 6 months or more, then moved to another department. They said management wants them to learn each department and move up the food chain.

I'm lucky to find one person at Lowes in a department and then they say the person who works there is sick today.

I can't blame the employees, I blame the management. That said I always find something positive to say about Lowes. Lowes is my go to store for appliances. They have, IMHO, the most appliances on the floor. They have free delivery. They remove my old appliances. And I'm a fan of Lowes extended warranty.

Each time I go to Lowes, I rarely see the same faces. I go to Menards, I see employees that are almost like friends. They have been there for years. They are very friendly, helpful. Ask them where to find something, either they will show you or look it up on computer to see if store has it.

Yesterday I was looking for grease zerks. Asked if they had any. I get the dumb deer in the headlight look, What a grease zerk? I tell them. Well let's go look at where the grease guns are. Sure enough they had what I wanted. Employees know the store inside and out. Very helpful.

I'm sure many people are not a fan of any store, especially Menards. geo
 

Geo, very true about management. Without good managers, there will not be good employees. I know a guy who used to be an assy line supervisor who just wasn't content with "telling" people how to do something. There were times that he'd show them, and other times when he would give pointers and let them learn the way that worked best for them, such as how to handle sheet metal without getting all cut up. Upper management was too involved in making the books look good to care about safety. He didn't last long. He was fired less than a week after the assy line supervisor had had enough and quit.
 
Before the big box stores our only option was to call a electrician/plumber and pay full rate plus an after hours service charge. It seems expensive, but in a real emergency it is well worth the extra cost.
 
Taking a picture of a kid from behind and calling him an idiot online because he isn't trained to do a task at work is something I'd expect more from a high schooler than an adult.
 
I'd like to see any of YOU go work there and not look like an "idiot" performing at least ONE task at that store. You'd probably look like an "idiot" performing most of the tasks.

If you throw up your hands in frustration trying to operate a smart phone or a computer, you think you'd be able to make that wire display work?

On day one you would know what every one of the 100,000+ products on the shelves are, how they are used, and where they are located in the store? I find that laughable.

Blame whoever you want but if the employees were trained, everything would cost twice as much, and you'd be complaining about THAT...
 
(quoted from post at 05:17:28 03/24/17) Because the masses abandoned the local ma an pa hardware store to save a dime.
We are lucky, on the other side of town we still have a locally owned hardware store.
I travel futher and pay more GLADLEY!!! because they know me when I walk in. Long ago the owner handed me a card with a number and said call if you have an emergency after hours,,, not many of em left around.

2 sides to that Butch. The local "Mom and Pop" hardware near me, which was actually a very large concern that cared more about selling high end clothing and hockey skates than hardware anymore, was infamous for raping anyone who bought stuff there. But, we bent over and took it because it was pretty much the only game in town and they'd run all the littler Mom and Pops out of business. When Lowes came in, it was a happy day for me.
 

I'll say this this much. I applied for jobs and Lowes and TSC. Either they didn't want me because I had no experience with modern cash registers or I was totally over qualified. Those are the 2 options offered up by employees of both places as to why I never even got a nibble. I don't understand why they don't hire people with actual knowledge of the stuff they're trying to sell.
 
This was our decision. As a nation we quit buying from the local stores and switched to buying at the big box stores.
So the little stores went out of business and the main streets of most of our communities are vacant store fronts.
It is even true of the old downtown shopping areas of most cities.

Americans always want to blame someone, but usually don't want to look in the mirror.

If the little town where you live is dead economically ....look at where YOU shopped.
 
Many good comments made and I wish my original response did not default due to my computer. Absolutely have to consider the larger problem is the employee's company. Also, as someone said they don't want to hire highly qualified employees but the real reason is that employee might just take the job of the idiot far up the food chain away from the people that walk the floors in the store.
 
AMEN! There are a lot of things that all of us can't do with no experience but that doesn't make us "idiots". That was a low blow to a kid who at least has a job. Using that criteria all of us are "idiots" in some things.
 
If it's like our local Lowe's, that wire display / dispenser has a keypad. To get it to move requires the employee to enter a pass code. Lot's of employees, that aren't regularly assigned to electrical would not have that code issued.

FYI, the reason for the pass code in the first place is to keep customers from operating, and possibly damaging it or themselves.
 
First of all it looks like a high school kid and if nobody trained him in operating a machine which the store deems as dangerous , then not really a dummy.. Any electrical supplies on Home depot is a nightmare. It took me from 7 pm until 10 pm to get a panel down from a high shelf. I was on my customers time .After that it was straight to the electric supply house. Not good for electric supplies.
 
Aaawww, come on now! Everyone knows that in today's world that if it can't be done with two thumbs on a smart phone, then it simply can not be done!! :cry:
 
I think that guy looks pretty young too... might not be permitted to operate the equipment.

When in high school, our son worked at a grocery store stocking shelves and freezers. The store had a box crusher... our son could not legally operate that machine. He could load it up with boxes - then had to go get an some other employee (who was 18 or older), to press the button.

BUT one would THINK a few other employees would know how to operate that machine... OR at the very least, resort to grabbing a ladder so they could just grab the wire and unroll some manually.
 
(quoted from post at 07:34:35 03/24/17) 120 miles to a Lowes or Home Depot? You must live 50 miles on the other side of no where.

North Dakota has about 70,000 square miles and 3 Lowes in the whole state.
 
(quoted from post at 08:45:25 03/24/17) If it's like our local Lowe's, that wire display / dispenser has a keypad. To get it to move requires the employee to enter a pass code.

The kid knew the code. Trouble was the machine was shut off in some other way so the keypad was not powered up. Once they figured it out, a green and a red LED lit up on the keypad and he was "good to go".
 

"Idiot" revisited... I was tired and crabby when I posted that and didn't do a good job of presenting main main point.

It's not so much that the kid was an idiot, and I shouldn't have said that, what I was trying to get across that now everything has to be so "idiot proof" it can be difficult to operate.

Imagine (if you can) my frustration after having driven that far and having the needed wire dangled in front of me like a carrot on a stick and not being able to get it/purchase it for such a silly reason!
 
Regardless of who was at fault for this kid not knowing how to operate the machine, it IS just a wee bit ridiculous for a customer....excuse me, a "guest" to wait for 20 minutes and multiple employees before SOMEONE knows how to work the danged thing! No manager or asst. manager could do it? Maybe the person who normally worked that area was on break at that time. Would it have hurt to go help out and then resume your break? (yes, I know...some places don't/won't allow that)

When we were growing up, most of us were learning about mechanical things. Nowdays, kids are mostly learning about computerized things. That makes a disconnect, especially in areas where mechanical still rules.

For all the people saying that at least he has a job, well, yes. He does. But why? Was there nobody else more qualified to take the job? Or was it that the store didn't think they could hold onto someone more experienced at the wages they were willing to pay?

There's 2 sides (usually) to a story and, in this case, more. I, for one, can understand and relate to why Bob was a bit miffed about the whole event.

...And for the record, we're over 200 miles from the nearest Menard's or Lowe's. :p~~
 
(quoted from post at 08:40:14 03/24/17) usually any electrician has that,none in your area

There's ONE full-time electrician who has any stock on hand in a 30 or 40 mile radius and he isn't interested in small jobs, nor selling material.
 
Bob, glad you clarified that you were upset. The not-an-idiot kid was looking for the switch that turned it on. Have the same problem in unfamiliar buildings. And yes, he at least is trying to be something, he is working.
 

My son is one of three assistant managers at a Lowes in southern NH. He doesn't have any department managers reporting to him anymore because he is in over-all store management. When he was responsible for managers he constantly had problems with some of them running their departments properly. I know that if something like this had come to his attention, he would have had a discussion with the manager about it. Department managers are like all employees. Some are good some are mediocre and some are marked for replacement when a better candidate shows himself worthy.
 
Agreed, Bob.

Just this morning, I learned that my 2016 car cannot be cranked with the hood open.

Makes it kind of difficult to jump start or boost start, forcing one to wait while the battery charges so as to crank it after closing the hood.

Dean
 
Usually if I run into someone who doesn't know how to operate a machine or other things I just tell them it is ok. I wasn't born knowing everything either.
 
BOB! get some rest! You wrote the word 'main' twice in the first sentence. Not like you.
 

The "buzz words" in our small town is "shop locally". I try to support that as much as possible but some of the stores the service is so bad I end up driving 50 to 60 miles to get what I need.
Order building supplies from local lumber yard at 8 in the morning. Be the in a half hour. At eleven thirty I checked just loading up they said. At three thirty I checked again no one new anything about the order. I cancelled the order and ended up losing an entire day because I tried to "shop locally ".

At local supermarket I counted thirty two customers waiting in line to checkout. No checkouts clerks around. After a time I boomed out "does anyone work here." After a couple of minutes three checkout clerks slowly appeared and starting checking people out.

If the local stores are going to complain about he big box stores they need to make sure their service is well above and beyond the big stores.
 
Training, training, training! As others have stated a lot of the box stores just don't do it. I was completely blown away about 15 years ago in a Wal Mart where the electronics department MAGANGER didn't know a darn thing about computers she was trying to sell. That's when I first noticed this trend. Many other stores are doing the same thing. Training cost money and cuts into the bottom line. Except sometimes it backfires. Back then I was dropping 500-700 a month in Wal Mart super centers with grocery shopping and everything else. Now I spend ZERO there. So yea, they save money by not properly training the workers but the drive customers away too.

Now here, HD and Menards are to 2 available to me. Experiences in both makes HD my go to place. Now we have 2 local lumber yards too. Both of them are extremely high priced. Great service but you pay for it. On lumber they are almost 2X the cost at the box stores. Yea I need one sheet of ply or a couple of 2x4s I won't drive the 25 miles. But like last year when I had a project that ran about 2500 bucks through HD? I'm not handing the local crooks 2K.

Rick
 

"Training cost money and cuts into the bottom line."
Rick, what is the name of your business management school?
 

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