non tractor Ross steering box question?

Hello, I am a new member looking for advise on the repair of an old Ross steering box, I cant seem to find any rebuilding info on the internet that is not related to tractors or military ross box's so after reading some of the posts on this forum I decided to join and ask my question hoping one of you can steer me in the right dirtection?
I have a box that was from a 48-49 crosley car but i was told it was also used on combines and tractors as well? the box works but it has a few spots when turning it that feel clunky/binding? I took it apart & found that the upper & lower bearings on the worm gear seem to be missing some balls, unless they are not supposed to have every space occupied by ball bearings? if you count the existing balls & empty spaces it looks like it takes 11 5/16" balls I have 9 on the bottom and 10 on the top. alot of the balls are pitted & rusted but still round. the race area is fine, no scoring or gouges and polish's up fine. the cups for the balls also look fine? the worm gear seems intact and smooth (not chipped or gouged) & following pin (steering arm) also looks fine?
so my question is , how many balls should be in the cups? I want to buy new ball bearings and reassemble the unit. I tried to put 11 balls around the cup and they dont fit? Is one ball smaller then the other 10? I will ad pic's of the gear & bearings that I took after removal & clean up and one pic of the bearing with 11 balls (that dont fit)
my second question is, would the pitted & rusted and missing balls cause the box to feel like it was binding or clunky in spots?

I appreciate any and all help I could get from you guys as there doesn't seem to be a crosley forum or related crosley "ross" steering rebuild thread anywhere on the net.
thanks,
paul

Not sure why I cant up load the 3 pictures?

You can't post pics until you've had a # of posts. I'm not sure
as to the # of balls needed but I imagine if they were pitted and
rusty they could bind. I was able to buy new balls at my local
hardware store. My Massey 50 tractor uses a Ross steering box.

Originally, there may have been a stamped steel retainer to evenly spread out less than a full complement of balls.

All the balls will be the same size and it should not be hard to find replacements, as the other poster says, at a hardware store or MANY places on-line.

If you put as many balls in there as will comfortably fit, holding them in place during assembly with heavy grease, there should be no issues, even if there's a bit of a gap between the first and last ball.

the most balls I can assemble with in the cup is 10, its physically impossible to get the 11th (5/16) ball in so I assume it will be 10 balls. I will source out the correct replacements.
the other question I have is pre-loading the bearings with the top cap (the one the steering shaft runs out) it had a stack of triangle shaped shim steel gaskets of various thickness. should I just reassemble with the same stack or could that be part of my problem with the binding (not shimmed right).
what is the process for finding out how many shims I need when the 3 bolts are in and torqued?

I have had Ross steering boxes on some old tractors long gone. I have several Ross steering
gears that are used for the dirt track midget race cars that I play with. I also have a Ross
steering box in my 1953 Willys CJ3-B. I have never had to do any work to rebuild them so
I am probably no help there. I did recently buy a issue of JP Magazine which featured a
very good article on rebuilding the Ross boxes.I also have a current copy of Kaiser Willys
aftermarket catalog.....www.kaiserwillys.com which features lots and lots of parts for
rebuilding the various types of Ross gears.

Good luck

There is nothing wrong with putting "loose balls" in a slow speed bearing. You can new ones from a bearing supply, or probably McMaster Carr. The rusted and pitted balls
could make it feel rough. Just stick the loose balls in with grease and carefully assemble, then add oil.

In addition to the advice given make sure 5/16 is the right size bearing. I rebuilt a gear box in similar condition to yours and at first sight they looked to be 1/4, but after trying 1/4 I found I had more gap than with the old bearings, I measured some of the old ones and found that they were more than a 1/4 but smaller than 5/16 to varying degrees. Tried a second time with 5/16 bearing and I came out pretty even. Yes pitted balls could cause your binding issue. In regards to your shims, that will probably be trial and error on your part. Since you say that you have a different number of bearings in each race, that would lead me to believe that the box has been opened before, so the shims may have been adjusted. Without seeing it I assume the shims adjust the end play or "slop in the bearings. If so, when you put it all back together, if the box turns hard (remove a shim), or if it has more than a 1/16-1/8? of end play (add a shim). More than likely new bearings, grease, and oil and you will be good to go. HTH

is there a good tractor dealer or auto parts store in your area? by good i mean one where the counter people are willing to talk to and help you

I have repaired several steering boxes on Cub Cadets and I just wanted to add:

You adjust the bearings on the worm shaft first, then you adjust the pin(or pins-some have two) engagement into the worm.

Keep in mind that the most worn area on the worm and the pin(s) is when the wheels are straight ahead. Sometimes you have to adjust where nothing binds over close to full left and right and live with whatever extra play is at straight ahead position just so it won't bind up when turning.

Another trick I've used on tractors if the pin(s) removeable is take the pin out and turn it 90 degrees so it presents a new wear surface to the worm, and tack weld it back in. (On your car, do this at your own risk.)

You are correct - should be 11 5/16 balls each end but there were some with less balls and a plastic retainer. Just put in as many as you can and it will be good. Here's
a link to them on ebay. When going back together you want zero end to end movement and still be able to turn it with your fingers. Use 00 ep grease inside when you're
done. You can buy it at a lawnmower shop in a squeeze bottle or cornhead grease from a tractor dealer.

wow this is all great info guys , now to answer a few questions you've posted. this box is a 48 crosley and has been modified for use in a 1959 Lyndwood dragster. this was one of the early dragsters with big tubing and a really short wheelbase (98") the steering shaft has been lengthened to make it a "cowl steering" (center mounted steering) dragster set up. I found the dragster in 1989 in a salvage yard and fully restored it to circa 1964 era (a the car was ran before it was retired for being out of date,compaired to newer ,lighter & longer wheel base dragsters of that time. as stated the Ross box's were used heavily in both dirt track cars & drag cars till the aftermarket caught up in the mid 60's and started to produce aluminum race box's based off of the ross design.
when I found the dragster someone had had the ross box opened as the bolts holding it together here very loose (not even hand tight) at that time I just cleaned up the outside of the box for paint and tightened everything up. through the 90's I ranthe car in vintage exhibition at nostalgia drag races for show. the box always worked but the more I used the car, the steering seemed to get chunky or binding when turning? the NHRA outlawed the original old dragsters from running in late 96 due to their age and non compliance with current rules so after that all you could do was display them and start the engine for people to hear (boring). I parked the rail from 97 till 2003 when the nostalgia craze started up again, you still cant run them but they will let you start them and sometimes do a parade lap to show they still run. I decided to sell the dragster this year and thought I should address the steering issue before selling so thats why I took it apart to fix it.
when I found the it the cover tube was off the top of the box so I assume rain water may have gotten in to the top bearings and thats why they are pitted, the bottom bearings actually have no pitting, just less balls then the top. there was no oil in the box only really old grease (black) deep into the case and newer (light brown) grease that I had pumped in through the grease zerk over the years. if these box's take oil and not grease why is there a grease zerk on the box?
I will set the worm gear end play as T.R.K has described (makes sense) and if I read other posts on this site correctly I center the steering shaft after counting rotations left to right then adjust the following pin play with the nut on the side of the box. my question on that is how far do I adjust that,just so there is drag on the pin? wish I could post pics now to show you what I found + some pics of the dragster, alot of you guys may appreciate it as it's from a time when the "little guy" could run and have fun in a dragster (before corporate america got involved)
thanks,
Paul

I just thought if one of you can email me direct I could email back 3-4 pictures for you to post up for me?
my email is [email protected]
thanks, Paul

On tractors the steering box set level thus 90 wt oil was used originally. Later on it was changed to 140 wt gear oil because the 90 wt wounden't stay in. 140 wt
doesn't stay in all that well either. When used on automobiles the steering box was most alway's mounted at an angle. That pretty much ruled out oil. 00 grease was
used instead. Used to come in 5 gal buckets and was greased via the grease zerk every time you greased all the other zerks on the car. That grease wasn't used in any
other fitting around here.

What you will find if you use regular grease is after you turn the wheel back and forth a few times the grease is pushed to the ends where it builds up and stay's. The
pin will then be dry where it rides in the worm making steering difficult and will destroy the pin and worm pretty quick when used. I rebuilt one and destroyed it in
one summer on my tractor doing just that. 00 grease cartridges are available at John Deere and New Holland dealers - (cornhead grease). I'm sure you could find it at
other places as well. That grease is thinner and stay's pliable so everything inside stays slick.

I set the pin by turning the wheel all the way left of right and screwing it in all the way with a small screwdriver and then back it off just a hair and lock it down.
Pretty much the same as wheel bearings. Raise the front end and turn the wheel with one finger thruought it's travel. If it's too tight back it out a hair more and if
it's too slack in a tad.

(quoted from post at 10:25:16 02/26/17)
I just thought if one of you can email me direct I could email back 3-4 pictures for you to post up for me?
my email is [email protected]
thanks, Paul

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