Scams and catching the villians your thoughts

JOCCO

Well-known Member
Did not want to hi jack the post on scams. But here goes folks: Wondering what could be done to shut some of this down. (I did see that the government was putting some new rules on western union because of all this) Having worked with this subject a bit locally what I see needs to be done is 1. Holding phone companies feet to the fire in many ways 2.Tighter rules on bank wire transpher etc. Most of this needs to be done at the federal level. thanks to all
 
My bank is a small town bank. They monitor any money transfers.Any large ones they block until they contact the customer. They really watch the ones for the older folks in town. Saved one lady quite a bit of money from a scammer.
 
The huge majority of these scammers are in other countries where we have no jurisdiction.
Stopping these lowlife predators will be mostly dependent on education. Educating folks to the tactics of the scammers will go a long way toward stopping them. Reciprocal agreements with countries harboring these predators will also go a long way. Scammers will typically operate where they are least "molested" by law enforcement.
Eliminating "untraceable" money transfers will also go a long way to shut them down.
 
It's tough on the wiring money end... a dude from Jamaica scammed my parents into wiring money several times.

I just happened to be at their home once when the guy called - otherwise, who knows how much he'd have gotten out of my elderly parents. They were CONVINCED that they had won a million dollars and had to pay some "fees" to collect the prize.

No amount of discussion could get my mom to believe me, that this WAS a scam.

With Dad's agreement, we:
Changed their phone number and made it unlisted.
Closed their bank account and opened a new one.
Changed mail pickup to a PO box so my sister could get the mail...
and throw away the junkmail before mom got a hold of it,
(as Mom was also sending donation checks to various mail scams).

SO if you have elderly parents - it pays to pay attention and be wary.
If your parents will permit it - it is good to review their financial transactions.
My parents were NOT stupid people... they had just became a bit unfirm in their mental capacities when they got old.

VERY SAD, but it happens to lots of elderly folks... both the scamming and becoming mentally unfirm.
 
The hard part is getting banks to do the right thing, because it is cheaper to let the crooks get away with the money and tell the customer they are SOL, than to put protections in place so that it is harder to steal people's money.
 
The do not call list was a joke. Sure wish one could stop unwanted calls.
The older you get the more the scammers will prey upon you too.

Sure wish they would start catching them and make an example out of them to help discourage this. I'll volunteer to tie the rope or provide some ammo for a firing squad !
 
Eliminating "untraceable" money transfers will also go a long way to shut them down. Very well said sir.
 
Same here. I bank at a small town bank that watches and protects its customer very well. If you are going away on vacation they like to know because they watch your account like a hawk. They are suspicious of any out-of-state purchases and sometimes call you and ask if it is you making the purchase.
 
YES RR some of what I was getting at like this being in Colorado and making your phone number look from all over the country. A real id thing like the number is from 7 pleasant street. Also it was talked about a way that you cannot dial 300 calls in 3 seconds!! Makes it hard for one number to make thousands of calls.
 
Pretty much for me I will not answer calls from out of my area. If its a company I do stuff with it comes up as ABC supply and the number. Sometimes if unsure I let it go to voice and then pick it up if its legit. Most times they do not leave a message!!
 
The only fix would be to change the morality of people. There will always be scams but it could be reduced if peoples basic thinking was returned prior to the 1960's.
 
(quoted from post at 07:32:51 02/23/17) It's tough on the wiring money end... a dude from Jamaica scammed my parents into wiring money several times.

I just happened to be at their home once when the guy called - otherwise, who knows how much he'd have gotten out of my elderly parents. They were CONVINCED that they had won a million dollars and had to pay some "fees" to collect the prize.

No amount of discussion could get my mom to believe me, that this WAS a scam.

With Dad's agreement, we:
Changed their phone number and made it unlisted.
Closed their bank account and opened a new one.
Changed mail pickup to a PO box so my sister could get the mail...
and throw away the junkmail before mom got a hold of it,
(as Mom was also sending donation checks to various mail scams).

SO if you have elderly parents - it pays to pay attention and be wary.
If your parents will permit it - it is good to review their financial transactions.
My parents were NOT stupid people... they had just became a bit unfirm in their mental capacities when they got old.

VERY SAD, but it happens to lots of elderly folks... both the scamming and becoming mentally unfirm.
the scammers are really good at taking money from people like your parents who grew up in a different time when there was more trust. its funny how some older folks can get an idea in their heads and no amount of reasoning will change it. My parents are no different so my sister handles their finances and makes the decisions for them.
 
(quoted from post at 08:04:48 02/23/17) The only fix would be to change the morality of people. There will always be scams but it could be reduced if peoples basic thinking was returned prior to the 1960's.
the scams phones calls come from nigeria and india where this culture of dishonesty is promoted. They pull in millions so it is lucrative. I like the idea that some banks look out for the older folks and their bank accounts.
 
"Ma Bell" and the banks OWN the federal gov. and they just got 4 years worth of their guy at the wheel. Good luck with THAT. gm
 
I am surprised for as much as scams are publicized over all the place that people still fall for them. Educating people is about the only way to stop them and take control your self over the situation. I also think it would help if it was illegal to sell personal information without permission.
 
OK, I completely agree with stopping untraceable money transfers.

But I see several problems with the call issue.

1. The do not call list. In a sense that did work. I know of 3 "call centers" in our area (within 30 or so miles in a rural area) that closed. But there were loop holes too. Such as allowing any business that you had given your number to, to call. That included any affiliates of said company. I never used the do not call list and the number of telemarketers calling me has dropped to almost 0.


2. Those laws only apply to call centers located IN the US. So basically all that did was make Americans lose jobs. Now they can call from Canada, Mexico, India or any other country. Nothing to stop that and it's not the phone companies fault. No way yo impose our laws on other countries unless we invade and take control of said country.

3. Limiting calls or barring phone cloaking software? One of my daughter in laws is an office manager for a medical insurance company. One that sells some insurance through the exchanges. They have several call centers around the US making "300" calls a minute. But they are calls to people making sure they got their insurance cards and understand their policies. You want to bar legitimate calls? How is the phone company supposed to know without illegally listening in on calls? You want someone monitoring your calls? That is also why the cloaking devices can't be stopped. They would have to monitor calls to know that one was being used.


Don't get me wrong. I'd like to see this stopped too but I'm not willing to surrender any of my rights to do it. Every time you put up a roadblock to stop these con artist they will in short order find a way around it. I think scamming people is the world 2nd oldest profession.

Rick
 
The government did not care long before nnalert, years ago, I put a CA allis for sale on this site. Guy called and emailed said he wanted it and could I send pictures. Sent pictures he email said he wanted it. I was asking $1,200 he sent me a check for $6,000 and asked me to send the rest once cashed to some guy in Louisville to ship it. Well that sounded fishy, I took check to bank and asked my friend to run the check, all the time this guy is emailing me why haven't I sent the money. Turns out it was a false check, no such credit union. I called the Treasury department and the FBI neither one would do anything. Said that type of thing happens all the time..
 
Ha! Scam artists have been around a lot longer than the 60's! Look up Doc Brinkley, he was operating in the 30's. Became a multimillionaire when everyone was poorest. Patent medicine was sold out of wagons and through mail order for centuries. Churches have been creating ways to buy your way into heaven or whatever "promised land" they promote for millennia. Drifters know about "every lock that ain't locked with no one around".

The only way to defeat scam artists is to stay vigilant, educated, and to care for people you know that may be declining in mental capacity. Scam artists prey on lonely elderly people because they know that's easy pickings.
 
It is a very good bank. Small and everyone knows you. Used to have a manager we called the bulldog. She had an elderly man call. Said he was coming to get some cash to give to a man for a tractor. She felt it was odd. Called the sheriff to have a deputy standing by. Tractor man got arrested. She would work with you on loans. But if you tried to skip on her. She would find you.

Plus they have a free BBQ lunch once a year. For the customers.
 
Ric you are a good guy and we both are vets but I disagree on a lot of this. First I put telemarketers (grouping phone stuff all in one.) in the same category as the worlds oldest profession or worse!!! CALL CENTERS no problem with them BUT you call in for help or request a vacuum cleaner guy come out not them calling you for said!!! I don't agree with automated calls or making 300 calls per second!!! Also if I am legit and honest what do I have to hide??? Maybe planning a big drug deal or bank robbery over the phones the feds SHOULD MOVE IN!!! HOPE YOU CAN RESPECT MY OPINION.
 
(quoted from post at 11:40:20 02/23/17) OK, I completely agree with stopping untraceable money transfers.

But I see several problems with the call issue.

1. The do not call list. In a sense that did work. I know of 3 "call centers" in our area (within 30 or so miles in a rural area) that closed. But there were loop holes too. Such as allowing any business that you had given your number to, to call. That included any affiliates of said company. I never used the do not call list and the number of telemarketers calling me has dropped to almost 0.


2. Those laws only apply to call centers located IN the US. So basically all that did was make Americans lose jobs. Now they can call from Canada, Mexico, India or any other country. Nothing to stop that and it's not the phone companies fault. No way yo impose our laws on other countries unless we invade and take control of said country.

3. Limiting calls or barring phone cloaking software? One of my daughter in laws is an office manager for a medical insurance company. One that sells some insurance through the exchanges. They have several call centers around the US making "300" calls a minute. But they are calls to people making sure they got their insurance cards and understand their policies. You want to bar legitimate calls? How is the phone company supposed to know without illegally listening in on calls? You want someone monitoring your calls? That is also why the cloaking devices can't be stopped. They would have to monitor calls to know that one was being used.


Don't get me wrong. I'd like to see this stopped too but I'm not willing to surrender any of my rights to do it. Every time you put up a roadblock to stop these con artist they will in short order find a way around it. I think scamming people is the world 2nd oldest profession.

Rick

Very well said! You cannot invent a law or piece of technology that cannot be circumvented. All you do is to punish the honest folks trying to make a living.

The burden is on the intended victim. Folks have locks on their homes for a reason. The same thinking needs to be applied to transactions with strangers.
 
[i:654c4848f0]You can pass all the laws you want. The bad guys will find a way around in 24 hours. [/i:654c4848f0]

Yep, and that's the best that can happen. Often the mandates make it [i:654c4848f0]worse[/i:654c4848f0]. For example, the new chipped credit cards that were foisted on the US opened us up to a whole host of attacks that the hackers had already developed for the European market, but our old-style magnetic stripe card didn't have the flaw. Once we started using the chipped cards all of the same tricks the bad guys had been using overseas became prevalent here. Thanks a lot.
 
seems to me the biggest problem is they don't want to stop it, one example that sticks in my craw is auto insurance, here all they do is have you sign a paper saying you have it,, the answer is bring in proof of insurance when you buy plates or renew your lic,, just like when the cop stops you,...but hey, that would be to easy,... I think it's all economics to them
 
YES MAYBE THE IDEA is to make it to a point only a very very small percent can do it. Look at fake drivers licences Used to be easy when they were a stamped paper with no picture. Now you have all that encrypted, water mark, digital stuff. Very hard to duplicate and be of any use.
 
Not that easy here in California. Insurance companies contact the DMV when insurance is purchased. I think the insurance companies and DMV are in cahoots. Stan
 
Re: auto insurance. In many states, PA being one of them, the insurance company notifies the DMV immediately if one's auto insurance is cancelled or lapses. This would go a long way towards eliminating uninsured drivers. Also, once your insurance lapses here in PA, your registration on that vehicle is suspended for 90 days. A trooper will pay you a visit to collect your tag if you do not turn it in voluntarily.
 
(quoted from post at 09:26:30 02/23/17) Ric you are a good guy and we both are vets but I disagree on a lot of this. First I put telemarketers (grouping phone stuff all in one.) in the same category as the worlds oldest profession or worse!!! CALL CENTERS no problem with them BUT you call in for help or request a vacuum cleaner guy come out not them calling you for said!!! I don't agree with automated calls or making 300 calls per second!!! Also if I am legit and honest what do I have to hide??? Maybe planning a big drug deal or bank robbery over the phones the feds SHOULD MOVE IN!!! HOPE YOU CAN RESPECT MY OPINION.

I am not willing to surrender my right to privacy. I'm ok with the cops having to get a warrant to listen in on calls. And no, I don't have anything to hide. But if we willing give up one right they will be there wanting to take more in my opinion. I respect your opinion, just don't agree with it. And we can have a reasonable discussion about it unless you want to start calling names. Then I get childish and call names too :twisted: !

Rick
 
Chipped cards - both credit and debit - are one of my pet peeves.
Here are a few facts.
1) I have an OTC Genisys scanner for doing diagnosis on OBD2 vehicles. Software for this machine is freely available and not copy protected. BUT, you need a "smart card" for each of the applications that you want to activate from that software. These "smart" cards have that very same chip as today's credit/debit cards. This machine was introduced back in about 1989 or so. Old technology?
2) When I had satellite TV, my receiver needed a "smart" card to make it usable. Again, same chip as credit cards. I had that system in around 1999 or so. Again, old technology??
3) At state prisons here in PA, visiting areas have food vending machines. These machines use the SAME chip as credit cards. To use these cards, there is a machine in the lobby that you insert cash into, and it adds that to the balance on your card. This proves to me that this technology is widely available to read, write, and modify these cards.

My opinion is that this is old, borderline obsolete technology. Banks should be ashamed of introducing it into credit cards. This is the biggest example I have seen of businesses shooting themselves in the foot since IBM tried to corner the PC market with things like microchannel, PS/2 and OS/2.
 
The only thing that needs to be done is not answer the phone when you don't recognize the number. If it is legitimate, they will leave a call back message. The LAST thing in the world we need is more fed. regulations invading our privacy.
 
Re: auto insurance. In many states, PA being one of them, the insurance company notifies the DMV immediately if one's auto insurance is cancelled or lapses. This would go a long way towards eliminating uninsured drivers. Also, once your insurance lapses here in PA, your registration on that vehicle is suspended for 90 days. A trooper will pay you a visit to collect your tag if you do not turn it in voluntarily.

You are full of it! I live in PA and I have canceled the insurance on many many vehicles over the years and have never once turned in a license plate and the DMV has never once suspended the registration on any of my vehicles! I have never once had a trooper show up at my door to get a license plate either, which they would have no right to do anyway! I also know many people who have canceled the insurance on many vehicles with the same result as me!
 
I agree 36coupe, I think the police forces have enough on their plates and it would be VERY unlikely that they would be involved with
collecting plates. I suspect they would have a little kit with them like a screwdriver, crescent wrench, and maybe some hex head wrenches
for those inclined to use those fasteners .... ha!!!
 
Re: jimg.allentown - "[i:3eb207eedf]Chipped cards - both credit and debit - are one of my pet peeves[/i:3eb207eedf]."

10 years ago, a 5-gig flash drive had huge capacity for its size. Now, there are flash drives the same size that hold 1/2 a terabyte! So it's not quite the same as the chips or the technology from years past.

Was reading something recently about digital cameras. It was saying the ONLY reason cameras are the size they are is to give people something they can hold on to. Outside of that, the same exact camera with same exact functionality could be had from the size of a sweet pea.

Therefore, comparing the chips from a satellite smart card to the chips on a modern bank card is like comparing an old flash drive to a modern one. They may look similar, but they are worlds apart.
 
(reply to post at 08:02:36 02/23/17)

A number(4?) of years ago, some body got a hold of one of my credit card numbers, A day or so later, on a Saturday, I got a call from a guy who said that he worked for such and such corporation and was in the business of monitoring internet purchases and transfers. His first question was 'Have you been on the internet in the last 2 hours?' I told him 'No' and he said that some one had used my c.c. number to try and make a purchase for something like $15 but it didn't 'look creditable' to them and so it was denied. It was, he said, a 'trial-run' by the perpetrator to see if the security was lax enough 'to go for it'.

I was pretty impressed with their diligence, especially on a Saturday! A couple of hours later, I got a call from Western Union saying that someone had attempted to wire something around $400 from a location in the U.S. to an entity in Turkey! They denied it, and wanted to know if I had a Wells Fargo-issued credit card the number ending in xxxx? I told them 'Yes' and that card was the one that I generally used on the web to make purchases.

The person at W. Union then proceeded to contact WF to make sure that they were aware of the problem. I called WF Customer Service and had them cancel that card and issue me a new one with a differrent number. I have not had any more trouble with it (knock on wood).

What this experience told me is that there are several things that must be done to eliminate fraud of this type: One - due diligence on a 24/7, 365 day/year, basis and two - practice President Reagan's admonition to "Trust, but verify!" 8)
 

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