I have most of design on paper,material and parts gethered up for a light weight dump trailer. I'm planning to use same design as old tilt boat trailers where tongue break's over like a single barrel shotgun. One 2 inch bore,2500 psi cylinder supplied by 12 volt pump will tilt trailer. I have two questions. Is this correct? 2 inch bore = 3.14 sq inches x 2,500 psi = 7,850 pounds. Does that mean the cylinder will lift 7,850 Lbs dead weight? Second question is about scissors lifts. I'm lead to believe scissors has proven to be the most dependiable and safe system. I can't find specs that tell me what the above cylinder will lift when paired with a sissor. The geometrics of a sissors hoist appear to require far heavier cylinder/more psi to lift same weight as a cylinder mounted to push straight into load. Is that true? Just so you know,trailer will be used behind utv and 4 wheelers to move wood chips and stall clean out for kids' show animals.No trips to rock quarry.
- Thread starter da.bees
- Start date
showcrop
Well-known Member
I don't see scissors lifts as being more safe or dependable. They simply add stroke so that you don't need as large a hydraulic system. Big dump trucks have just a multi tube cylinder that lives in a dog house at the front of the body and goes nearly straight up. The only way a scissors is safer is that it limits what you can dump. I put a half a load of dirt in the body of a 450 once and it could barely lift it.
Brendon-KS
Well-known Member
- Location
- Goessel, KS
The benefit of a scissor lift is that you can get lots of bed tilt motion out of a relatively short cylinder. With a straight push you can only raise the bed the length of the cylinder stroke. Yes, a scissor lift requires more cylinder force for a given load on the bed but without it you would need a very long cylinder, possibly even a multi-section telescoping one, to raise the bed high enough to dump if the cylinder is located at the front. You could also position the cylinder closer to the pivot which accomplishes the same thing - lots of bed tilt with a small amount of cylinder travel. However, you might not have the space to locate the cylinder vertically under the bed. This is another advantage of a scissor in that it allows the hoist mechanism to lay flat when the bed is down. There are lots of mechanics to consider with a project like this.
jon f mn
Well-known Member
That type lift will work, but there are a couple issues to keep in mind. When you pivot on the axle the rear overhang can be an issue as the rear of the trailer frequently hits the ground. The other thing is getting enough lift with just a straight lift cylinder. You need 45? of tilt to dump well and getting that with a straight lift cylinder and still having enough lift capacity is pretty tough. It can be done tho. As far as type of lift the single cylinder in front is the best and most reliable, but usually the most expensive because of the length cylinder required. A sisor lift is second best and also second most expensive generally. The under the box single cylinder lift is the cheapest, but provide the least lift capacity and tilt angle.
WI Dan
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northern Wisconsin, Price County
jon f mn is the resident trailer guru. Watch for his comments.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
A 24" cylinder will lift an 8' bed to ~60 degrees with the right geometry. The push point is about 1/3 the way back on the floor of the bed, and the anchor point is several inches below the frame a little more than 1/2 way back. The cylinder needs to be at an angle when fully retracted or else it won't be able to lift the bed.
The dump trailer on the farm was built on an old truck frame, has two 3x24 cylinders, a 4x8 bed, and will dump a heaped load of rocks without breaking a sweat.
The dump trailer on the farm was built on an old truck frame, has two 3x24 cylinders, a 4x8 bed, and will dump a heaped load of rocks without breaking a sweat.
Keep us posted on your project. I like seeing things like this come together.
A thought - I've had people offer old barge wagon scissor hoists to me at least twice. For free. Needed hoses and a cleanup. Your project will need hoses anyhow. If you could find one of these scissor hoists, it might save you some fabricating time/money. I remember seeing them on Craigslist for cheaper than you could make one.
A thought - I've had people offer old barge wagon scissor hoists to me at least twice. For free. Needed hoses and a cleanup. Your project will need hoses anyhow. If you could find one of these scissor hoists, it might save you some fabricating time/money. I remember seeing them on Craigslist for cheaper than you could make one.
Yep,I went out today and used 2x4s to mock up angles (my trig stink's). Sure enough 30 degree tilt will hit the ground in rear and require 26 inches of cylinder stroke.
30 deg is approaching an ecceptical angle but 26" stroke I can't handle. I've watched CraigsList for a month without seeing a scissor for sale and I'm not spending new price for one. Chances are if I found a scissor it would weigh as much as the frame and I need this thing light enough to push out of the way by hand. Overall empty weight is why I'm trying to use the single frame tilt rather than stacked frames needed for a scissor bed. I believe diy dump information is hard to find because of liability issues. It's the same way if you want to know how much steel members can support under different conditions. You need only to park a factory build trailer beside a shop build to see how over built the shop build is. Most of our farm trailers were shop built resulting in us pulling extra weight every where we go. My nephew's factory trailer he pull's the Bobcat on look's flemsy beside the other trailers that were shop built. Anywho,I've read enough horror stories about twin cylinders on sides that I havn't considered those eventhough they are simple to set up. And the head scratching continues.
30 deg is approaching an ecceptical angle but 26" stroke I can't handle. I've watched CraigsList for a month without seeing a scissor for sale and I'm not spending new price for one. Chances are if I found a scissor it would weigh as much as the frame and I need this thing light enough to push out of the way by hand. Overall empty weight is why I'm trying to use the single frame tilt rather than stacked frames needed for a scissor bed. I believe diy dump information is hard to find because of liability issues. It's the same way if you want to know how much steel members can support under different conditions. You need only to park a factory build trailer beside a shop build to see how over built the shop build is. Most of our farm trailers were shop built resulting in us pulling extra weight every where we go. My nephew's factory trailer he pull's the Bobcat on look's flemsy beside the other trailers that were shop built. Anywho,I've read enough horror stories about twin cylinders on sides that I havn't considered those eventhough they are simple to set up. And the head scratching continues.
jon f mn
Well-known Member
Double cylinders on the side can be a good solution if the rest of the structure is made to use them. They got a bit of a bad rep when they were used on farm trucks because they could tip over. That is because there is nothing to keep them from twisting in a standard truck box. If you put a torque tube in your bed to prevent twisting they will work ok. If you look at a sissor hoist you will find a torque tube somewhere to do this.
As for the rear hitting the ground you can move the axle back or raise the bed some to achieve that. 30° of dump angle is going to make for tough unloading of some things like wet dirt and debris. This trailer has a more than 50° dump angle and it will unload most everything. I've found that less than 45° will give quite a bit of trouble unloading, meaning that you will have to hand unload what doesn't slide. This is even more of an issue with wood floors.
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