Are we really under attach form the EPA?

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
If you really want to know the driving force behind the world wide push for cleaner air, better Google WHO. World Health Organization. You may be surprised to learn the World Health Organization is part of NATO. Yep NATO, the one the US supports a major chunk of.

Google WHO and anything related to environmental issues, like Radon indoor air pollution. I think you will learn WHO is behind the things you blame the EPA for. The same crap is happening in other countries. Cars and tractors in other countries follow the WHO's guidelines and recommendations.
geo
WHO
 
EPA is killing manufacturing. At my work we cannot get enough Kubota 100 hp diesels because of carbon credits or something like that ? We had to stop production of one of our most popular machines because of it.
We can sell these machines all over the world too without issue. Other countries do not have the restrictions USA does.
 
We will never see the economy in this country return to even close to what it used to be until EPA, OSHA, DEQ, AND LABOR UNIONS back off there laws and regulations. I know they have all done good things but they just have way to much power.
 
We have tier stages, other countries call it stages, very similar. Read article from perkins diesels. They make an engine to meet our tier 4 and EU stage 4. Same engine. Please post a link showing EU stage 4 standards are different from our tier 4 standards? It may be possible the timeline for implementing standards may be a little different. I still think the driving force isn't the EPA, it's the WHO and the EPA is lock step because of treaties our leaders want to follow.
geo
stage 4/ tier 4
 
Where are you getting that WHO is a part of NATO? You have to be a country. I don't know what your point is here but it seems poorly researched. The US is a member not ["supports a major chunk of" ].
 
I am a full time farmer and should be denying that farmers are a big part of pollution of our lakes and streams. But I believe we are. I know all the farm organizations I belong to have lobbyists hired to tell Washington the farmer is not responsible at all but open your eyes. Since we did not clean up our act voluntarily we need epa. to make laws forcing us. Sorry fellow farmers but that's the way I feel.
 
I don't know ? But why have diesels always been available to European markets that could not be sold into the USA ?
 
Sad to say, we always want to blame a factory for all the pollution. I remember before area planning, zoning and board of health, people would put a trailer in backyard, run a sewer pipe to river and thought nothing of it.

I went to visit a friend in Pikeville, Ky. He lived in trailer on side of mountain. Same old septic system, pipe to stream in backyard. Proof crap does run downhill.

I just wonder how many people take a dump in the river, same water someone drinks downstream? Guess we need to blame the EPA?






geo
 
Mike,
No idea. They could be using air pollution as an excuse. May not have anything to do with air pollution. However particle pollution is different form of pollution and the engine in question doesn't have a way to deal with the PM. Above my pay grade, I'm retired.
geo
 
How is it that diesels in europe get much better mileage, smoke less, stink less, but are not acceptable due to the EPA standards???? There has to be a tradeoff of mileage (total amount of fuel burned) versus some of the emissions. Seems like if they are burning half the fuel, the actual total emissions would likely be equal. Isn't it better to burn less???
 
Double bingo, Bob.

Sadly, the federales do not care about your job. They care only about their jobs.

Dean
 
The EPA gets it's authority from congressional acts. They cannot enforce anything that WHO or any other organization. Under external_link the EPA overstepped its bounds and started making stricter regulations than authorized under congressional act, under presidential authority. Now I have no idea what WHO does, but I work in environmental and the EPA is who we answer to not WHO.
 
Let me throw this out there too. I am not in the coal industry, but all this crap external_link is doing to the coal industry and coal fired power plants will cut CO2 emission world wide by less than 5%. So we are wrecking our economy for 5% while China and India pour our emissions that are not even ran thru a scrubber. Look at a power plant, 99% of what you see is steam coming out that is because they have wet scrubbers.
 
I work for a very large diesel engine maker I can say the exhaust is cleaner than the air going in!
 
We have the technology and we should be setting good examples for the rest of the world. Ever see the pictures of Beijing, China and the smog in the air? Imagine trying to live life in that environment with all your money.
 
EPA is the US enforcement agency that put teeth in that foolishness and keeps the threat of retribution hanging over out heads. WHO has no enforcement authority of their own over us.
 
I believe the fundamentals that the EPA stand for, and teeth behind enforcement are good, but with any organization that has to justify itself, the paper work becomes the goal.
 
You are right, but EPAs ideas come from world health organization recommendations, their science. Google WHO for anything like seat belts, smoking, particle pollution, then tell me where EPA gets it's ideas from.
George
 
Dr. sportster made me do my research. I need to stand corrected. WHO became part of UN going back to 1948. Sorry for my mistake.
geo
WHO/UN
 
I agree with this statement. Spreading crap on frozen hilly ground. Tillage up to the edge of waterways with no buffer. Ignorance in proper mixing of sprays. Ignoring labels on sprays. Spreading nitrogen fertilizer in the fall. The list goes on. Makes it hard on the folks who try to do it right.
 
Dean I have to ask, having noticed your post often over the years. Do you run a church Bingo society or area Bingo games. Not critizing , just curious??
 
Engines last longer now because cars are now much higher geared. They have overdrive transmissions, lockup torque converters some are 2to1 ratio rear ends. Ya the cylinders are made with a little more nickel but the main reason is because the engine turns over one third or even half as much as before. It has almost nothing to do with smog equipment.
 
Disagree

The cars in the 50s had overdrive, didn't last any longer then, I would agree it contributes, but most of the extended life is due to precise fuel control. The increased torque due to the computer control also allows for overdrive.
 
Mostly fuel quality (no lead) and much better oils. The smaller engines of today turn fast, and are more highly loaded than the massive displacement of the 50s and sixties. Jm
 
Not saying you're wrong,but EPA needs to start looking at US interests and tell WHO to shove their ideas where the sun don't shine.
 
My mistake, you are right. UN. WHO determines what is killing people and has no power to enforce. EPA has the mussle, don't think EPA has had an original idea. All come the WHO.
 
The EPA is the Enforcer....and yes I feel that we are under attack from them,,an Un-tamed force that no one dare speak out against..
 
The piston rings are a low friction ring also. The hold the shape better thus needing to put less pressure on the cylinder walls.
 
I'm not sure what they measure differently. But it is amazing to see the diesel technology they have that we cant get. I'm not much of a conspiracy theory guy, but I always thought the lack of diesels here was due to a link between the US auto makers and oil companies. US auto makers will make diesel versions for Europe, but not here. The vast majority of diesel cars here (excluding pickups) are German... VW, Mercedes. Yes Gm had them, but not anymore!

When you have a diesel car- we have a 2003 jetta wagon- you notice that the diesel pump is the dirtiest thing at the gas station??? The rest of the pumps will be spotless, but the diesel pump will be covered in grime, fuel, etc. It's like the gas station manager said, "make that thing the most miserable pump to use. We don't want diesel cars."
 
I can buy the work on cleaner air as long as they don't couple it with the global warming nonsense. The air from cars and factories are causing respiratory problems for folks living in our nations cities. In China where it's still a free country they are polluting the air so bad it looks like a heavy fog in cities and people are having to stay indoors because of it. I'm sure that only helps a little. They surely are getting enough pollution inside to make them sick over the long term. As far as Nato, it doesn't really matter. There is a push for a one world government regardless of what name you put on it.
 
Who we are, what we do

Our goal is to build a better, healthier future for people all over the world. Working through offices in more than 150 countries, WHO staff work side by side with governments and other partners to ensure the highest attainable level of health for all people.

Together we strive to combat diseases ? infectious diseases like influenza and HIV and noncommunicable ones like cancer and heart disease. We help mothers and children survive and thrive so they can look forward to a healthy old age. We ensure the safety of the air people breathe, the food they eat, the water they drink ? and the medicines and vaccines they need.
 
Both WHO and EPA need to be destroyed. EPA started out OK but they cannot seem to grasp the concept of "good enough" so they keep pushing tighter regs and have become the enemy of the American people. President DJT will give them rightful punishment shortly, I suspect.
 
They've brainwashed you or maybe you're just gullible. What sort of work do you do for them? Hopefully not in their lab testing area. So if you had a choice of putting your grandchildren in a room where fresh air was being put in or into the same room with diesel exhaust being pumped in, you're telling me that you'd take the second choice? Tell me it was a typo error and the devil made you post the comment.
 
(quoted from post at 16:23:36 01/12/17) The piston rings are a low friction ring also. The hold the shape better thus needing to put less pressure on the cylinder walls.

I worked building engines for 30 years. Specifically instrumentation. The difference in matierals and tolerances is incredible. Bore liners and rods, camshafts are usually powdered metal, formed to near net size, and very tight tolerance. Tolerances for diameter and roundness are less than 10% of what they were 30 years ago. Coupled with fuel injection and software, and better oils, todays engines are much better.
 

BTW, I grew up just outside of Detroit, near the Rouge River. Before the EPA, it was literally a open sewer. Sometimes it caught fire, usually kids setting oily waste on fire as it drifted downstream. Sometimes it would change color when some factory dumped paint or oil in there. Back then, it was cheaper to pay the fines, than to pay to have crap hauled off. But I don't know of a single plant shut down by the EPA. Everyone I saw shut down were due to cheap labor somewhere else. As far as unions, only about 8 or 9% of the workforce is unionized. They basically are irrelevant. You guys need to find somebody else to blame.
 
Ken and flying, Thanks for your comments. I am tired of hearing that farmers should be able to break all the rules.
Farms are businesses and need to live by the rules like any other business.

Just because a farming practice is easier and cheaper (and traditional) does not make it environmentally right.

That is the same argument that chemical plants, and mines have always made..it is too tough, too expensive!
 
I have been to China in the last 10 years. Their air quality is horrible, there is a smell that permeates everything including food, there is a yellow haze to the air, and they have to scrub the black crap off the fronts of buildings in touristy areas every morning.
 
I think there is something (the new world order?) that wants control of all countries and all of us. It is working through the UN I think. There is The Commerce In Small Arms treaty that would control small arms in a way that is not at all in agreement with the Second Amendment. external_link has signed it, the only thing keeping it from being US law is the Senate has not ratified it. This is a big part of the control this whatever it is wants to have over us and the world, the EPA and others like it may be part of it. Maybe this will affect the US less with nnalert. The EPA, the UN, NATO and others are good as originally designed but like the US government have gone way past what they were supposed to be doing.
 
I agree, China is about as far from a free country as they get.

The government controls everything to make it as profitable for the leaders as possible, so environmental is not on the list, and the average person does not get to vote.
 
(quoted from post at 15:32:18 01/12/17) I don't know ? But why have diesels always been available to European markets that could not be sold into the USA ?

Diesel sells in Europe and many other nations because it's 2/3 the price of gasoline . Not because diesel is better.
In many countries years ago diesel was considered and esential for farming, industry and heavy transportation. Taxing diesel would slow the economy . Gasoline was considered a luxury item and taxed much higher for the few who could afford private cars .
Then there are the 3rd world markets without emissions regulations and cheaper diesel. This is even more incentive for manufactures to tool up diesel versions of US machinery , powered with diesel instead of gas.
The US , canada , western Europe and Australia have the deep pockets to pay the big bucks to add emissions to diesels so no loss of profit to manufactures and a larger world market share.
 
(quoted from post at 18:48:14 01/12/17) Engines last longer now because cars are now much higher geared. They have overdrive transmissions, lockup torque converters some are 2to1 ratio rear ends. Ya the cylinders are made with a little more nickel but the main reason is because the engine turns over one third or even half as much as before. It has almost nothing to do with smog equipment.

It has everything to do with the smog equipmemt . Using no lead gasoline and removing sulfur from both gasoline and diesel has reduced corrosion. Fuel injection has reduced cylinder raw fuel washdown and crankcase oil dillution. Even the exhaust systems last longer now.
 
(quoted from post at 22:07:19 01/12/17)
BTW, I grew up just outside of Detroit, near the Rouge River. Before the EPA, it was literally a open sewer. Sometimes it caught fire, usually kids setting oily waste on fire as it drifted downstream. Sometimes it would change color when some factory dumped paint or oil in there. Back then, it was cheaper to pay the fines, than to pay to have crap hauled off. But I don't know of a single plant shut down by the EPA. Everyone I saw shut down were due to cheap labor somewhere else. As far as unions, only about 8 or 9% of the workforce is unionized. They basically are irrelevant. You guys need to find somebody else to blame.

There is no one here who condones pollution of the air or water as you described . What we are trying to tell some people is that the EPA and WHO etc have gone overboard and set regulations so high and stringent that the net result is a loss for society rather than a gain.
 

I agree with B+D. Just because you can recognize the ridiculous abuses the EPA and other alphabet agencies commit does not mean you're an anarchist that wants zero regulation. It's the nonsense and impossible standards that irk me. A little common sense goes a long way.
 

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