Engine Inframe vs Out of Frame Rebuild and When - Why?

Bill VA · Dec 17, 2016

Just kind of looking down the road with the 756 gasser. C291 engine with sleeves.

When do you simply do an inframe overhaul vs pulling these gas motors with sleeves? What is the trigger for an out of frame overhaul?

If/when you pull the engine, you do the clutch too?

Just curious.

Thanks,
Bill

David G · Dec 17, 2016

My view would be that crank work would trigger out of frame.

oldtanker · Dec 17, 2016

(quoted from post at 10:18:32 12/17/16) My view would be that crank work would trigger out of frame.

Yup, that time? Pull the pan and check the crank. When it's gotta be ground then it's time to come out.

Rick

onefarmer · Dec 17, 2016

In my opinion out of frame would be mandatory when you need to do machine work to the crank. Or need access to the rear seal.

Ellis Kinney · Dec 17, 2016

Out of frame gives you the option of having the engine tanked. This cleans out all of the little oil and coolant passages in the block that might be partially corroded shut. I did this on an M engine. Solvent was forced through all passageways. It cost about $200.00, but came back bright, shiny and brand new. I was really impressed. Ellis

old · Dec 17, 2016

Think of it this way. If you do an in-frame over haul your leaving the crank shaft in and if it has say 5000 hours on the engine then the crank has wear and is very likely to soon or later let you know by a rod starting to knock or worse a rod out the side of the engine. So unless you mike each journal on the crank shaft and know 100% sure it is at spec pulling the engine IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO.

I learned many many years ago if you rebuild the top the bottom will fall out unless you also rebuild the bottom.

I.E. if you have the head done but not do rings etc the ring will not last long because of the added stress if new valve seat etc.

tim s · Dec 17, 2016

You can do a better job out of frame,, and get less oil in your eye...

bison · Dec 17, 2016

You're taking big changes with that engine supported on the forks like that, it takes only a pebble in front of the wheels and the mill will slide right off.

Nice job on the engine though.

showcrop · Dec 17, 2016

(quoted from post at 11:43:37 12/17/16) You can do a better job out of frame,, and get less oil in your eye...

10-4 on the oil in the eye. It is unbelievable how long they can keep dripping.

jon f mn · Dec 17, 2016

I've done a couple of each, my luck was better with the in-frame jobs because the engine was better to start with. Both of those turned out great, but I'm having a bad time with one of the complete oh jobs mostly due to inexperience on my part and cheaping out on the job. I wouldn't pull the engine unless the crank mic'd bad.

Roger Tomfohrde · Dec 17, 2016

O.K. so lets look at that particular tractor. To get the push rods out you probably have to lift the gas tank to get the push rods out.At least on a 560 you do.When I did my 706 with the 282 it was easier to roll the front away to get at things because the sleeves had to come out for cracks. If the sleeves need pulling it gets worse and the motor has to be moved away front the rear end. Out of frame to me technically is if the crank needs work or the seals leak. The dry sleeves can crack so check them carefully when/if you get that far in.I bought a 2000 Lb engine stand for the 560 that I am working on but it is not long enough for the heavy 6 cyl motor so be careful.

Phil9N3667 · Dec 17, 2016

Gotta add my "oil in the eye" story! Friend of mine and I were in-framing an early '80's Mack 300 engine and forgot to get lithium 'white lube' grease to put on bearings, etc. We were putting 15w40 oil on everthing, rods/mains included. He fussed at a drop of oil in his eye, asked for a rag to wipe it! He then fussed at me again for giving him a rag with Brake Cleaner on it!!

KenL · Dec 17, 2016

I have done many engines on most brands. I will not do an inframe. Every crankshaft needed some work. I have the block hot tanked and line bored. Rods reconditioned. Head completely redone. Also if the clutch has wear, replace that. You're there now why not do it? Customers told me my engines lasted as long and a lot of them longer than the originals. If you're going to do it, do it right. It will save you money in the long run.

travis miranowski · Dec 17, 2016

When I worked as a mechanic for a living if a tractor came in with a bad engine I would always try my best to talk them into an out of frame. I have rebuilt a lot of engines and only 2 in frames. All I can say is I HATE IN FRAME OVERHAULS!!!! They are incredibly dirty and nasty! And with all the time you spend cleaning and flushing and getting oil and solvent in your eyes, the savings start to go out the window. Do yourself a favor and pull the damn engine!

Texasmark1 · Dec 17, 2016

If more needs fixin that an inframe can do then yes. If not, then no. On clutch, if splitting for engine removal yes, clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, front seal on the tranny input shaft.

showcrop · Dec 17, 2016

(quoted from post at 15:33:14 12/17/16) I've done a couple of each, my luck was better with the in-frame jobs because the engine was better to start with. Both of those turned out great, but I'm having a bad time with one of the complete oh jobs mostly due to inexperience on my part and cheaping out on the job. I wouldn't pull the engine unless the crank mic'd bad.

If I recall one with water in the cylinders?

Bill VA · Dec 18, 2016

Thanks everyone - very helpful info!!!!!

Engine Inframe vs Out of Frame Rebuild and When - Why?

Bill VA

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David G

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oldtanker

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onefarmer

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Ellis Kinney

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old

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tim s

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bison

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showcrop

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jon f mn

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Roger Tomfohrde

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Phil9N3667

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KenL

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travis miranowski

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Texasmark1

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showcrop

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Bill VA

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