I've learned to watch what you wish for

notjustair

Well-known Member
Another example of lessons hard learned.

I can't tell you how many times I have repaired something in a hurry and thought that it would be so much faster if they would use machine screws in less critical areas. I ate crow this week and I'm still bitter about it.

I had to remove the oil pan on the 35 Chevy grain truck to clean the pickup screen. The engine has to be unbolted and jacked up but that's another bitter story. The oil pan is held on with about 15 flat head machine screws on either side. I was interested when I first found this but learned on reassembly that no matter the magnetic strength of a screwdriver it won't hold well onto a screw that is 80 years old and probably cut rather crudely when new. I've never learned so many new words in one repair. I've also never used the air compressor to blow globs of grease out of my eyes.

The up side - the old girl is back up and running

The down side - I threw a few tantrums and there might be a couple of replacement Phillips screws in there now.
 
Dang, if that didn't sound like fun.

You needed one us there for moral support.

I would have liked to learned a few of the new words just in case I might need them in the future.

Hang in there..

Larry
 
I wish I could understand why manufacturers don't use torx screws for sealed beam headlights, it's always a trick reaching down in there and not having the Philips screw fall off the screwdriver
 
Yup! For a variety of reasons, straight-slot screws are getting rarer and rarer, but there's still plenty of them around, especially if you work on older equipment. I have an old screwdriver with a small attachment on it that helps considerably--it's a set of brackets like a "U" chopped in half, with a little spring to hold them together. It fits over the head of the screw and holds it in place--perfect for starting screws in odd positions. Don't know whether it came on the screwdriver or was added later, and it's 50+ years old, but it still works fine and is one of those tools that you only use occasionally but sure come in handy when you need it.
 
Up here in Canada (not necessarily for automotive applications though) the Robertson square-head is the preferred type. Years ago when I had motorbikes, I noticed that a lot of the engine cases and elsewhere on the bikes the manufacturers used Phillips heads on their machine screws. All I know is this, most previous repair efforts with the Phillips heads resulted in damaged screw heads, Phillips (athough better than slot-headed screws for this issue) can cause a lot of bad language when trying to remove them, especially if someone else has done a previous removal. My neighbor was an aircraft sheet metal repair tech and I asked him once about why bikes (at least back then) used Phillips instead of say Robertson or maybe recessed hex head fasteners. He told me that aircraft still continue to use Phillips because they are stronger in relation to the amount of metal in the screw head. He said that Robertson and Hex are relatively weak because of the amount of metal that is removed to enable a better grip that you get with those other kinds. Phillips apparently are relatively easy to deal with and have a high level of strength because of their design. Just passing along what I was told, not sure if it is accurate or not. Next time you have a wing seat, look out and see the screws that are visible, they'll be Phillips.
 
Phillips in aviation is a real thing, has been since before WW2. They are just easier to install and remove compared to others. Best part is they are the easiest to drill into for using an easy-out without the head snapping off. Corroded screws in aircraft have caused me more aggravation than any other thing in aviation.......
 
Sounds like you are (or were) in the airplane industry. What did you do? Some web surfing tells me that there is a newer or modified version of the Phillips design that is used that is even better. Still basically a Phillips cross-head design though. Maybe you could shed some light on that for us? The website mentioned that a Phillips head still has good strength at the same time as the amount of metal in the head being considerably less than other screw designs which in an airplane that uses countless thousands of them, weight saving in important. Make sense to you?
 
A Case IH corn head I used to be involved with used pan head slotted head screws in the tin work. After cussing them for awhile I bought a high speed 3/8 air wrench to zing the nut off and on the screw real fast without the need to hold the head with a screw driver. I don't work on that corn head any more but the air wrench has come in handy numerous times for hopefully getting the nuts off other slotted head stove bolts.
 
(quoted from post at 10:52:57 11/27/16) Another example of lessons hard learned.

I can't tell you how many times I have repaired something in a hurry and thought that it would be so much faster if they would use machine screws in less critical areas. I ate crow this week and I'm still bitter about it.

I had to remove the oil pan on the 35 Chevy grain truck to clean the pickup screen. The engine has to be unbolted and jacked up but that's another bitter story. The oil pan is held on with about 15 flat head machine screws on either side. I was interested when I first found this but learned on reassembly that no matter the magnetic strength of a screwdriver it won't hold well onto a screw that is 80 years old and probably cut rather crudely when new. I've never learned so many new words in one repair. I've also never used the air compressor to blow globs of grease out of my eyes.

The up side - the old girl is back up and running

The down side - I threw a few tantrums and there might be a couple of replacement Phillips screws in there now.

Those should have been "stove bolts" hence the name stove bolt six.

With the right screwdriver they work fairly well, but it must fit the slot correctly.
 
You are correct, I am indeed an aircraft mechanic. I used to specialize in WW2 aircraft, but now more just general aviation. Not sure, but I think you are talking about the reduced head Phillips which is designed more for structural applications. They are also made of a higher grade metal than standard. Bombardier is big on tri-wing screws and Dash-8's are covered in them, nightmares to remove. Funny thing is I have worked on Harvards that did indeed have Robertson head screws in them.....
 
Funny you should mention. I took the rear axle nut cover off and there was a castellated nut on the axle with a 16 penny nail instead of a split
cotter pin. Those dang things are so expensive, you know.
 
This type of screw holder works well on slots. The phillips version not so well.
a243843.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 17:52:50 11/27/16) Sounds like you are (or were) in the airplane industry. What did you do? Some web surfing tells me that there is a newer or modified version of the Phillips design that is used that is even better. Still basically a Phillips cross-head design though. Maybe you could shed some light on that for us? The website mentioned that a Phillips head still has good strength at the same time as the amount of metal in the head being considerably less than other screw designs which in an airplane that uses countless thousands of them, weight saving in important. Make sense to you?



Let me see if I can give you some insight. There are several Versions of the original Phillip's head screw used on aircraft today they really have been around for many years now they are usually manufacture and aircraft specific. I know of at least 2 popular designs that are extensively used in place of the Phillip's and additionally at least one slotted design still used exclusively on particular aircraft. All have a special Apex tip in several sizes. You will find that you can strip the head on these as well if your carless and don't apply enough straight down pressure especially if your using a skew gun. All in all there not the typical screw you could find at home depot many have special strength requirements and coatings. Some at times have no coatings like titanium screws however even Titanium screws have coatings if there's a special requirement. Every factor has been thoroughly tested and examined by engineering including fastener strength. They are Particularly concerned in the case of dissimilar metals that would create corrosion hence the coatings and at times a requirement to install them wet with sealant for Cabin pressurization or corrosion protection .
Byron
 
Place I used to work was an ancient 3 story building, all oak plank floors.

The flooring was long worn away from years of pallet jacks being rolled over them. The solution was to cover the floors with 1/4" steel plates.

The plates were originally installed, probably starting in the '30's. They were all screwed to the floor with #10 slot head flat head screws! All hand driven, all hand drilled and counter sunk, 1000's of them!

Not only were they attached with slot head screws, the screws were low grade, often broke, which meant going back and redrilling one on each side of the broken one.

That is where I came on the scene, repairing years of neglect. I still had to hand drill and countersink (no way they would buy a mag base), but I found the blue concrete screws worked much better, no more breaking, zap them in with the battery impact!
 
I am with Timv, mine is a craftsman screw driver. I take an old hacksaw blade broken off and in a small holder handle and clean the slot. Then before reinstalling I gently put them in the vice and make deeper slots with a hacksaw. Make sure you have a wide screwdriver. All my original '52's have the same screws....James
 
Perhaps the Reed & Prince head ? Looks like a Phillips, but the driver is sharper and grips better. I used them alot in the Navy on P2V's
 
Old secret, if you want something to stick in a socket on a screwdriver whatever, the wax from a toilet ring works well. Use a new ring not a used one haha.
 

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