farm size?

What do you consider a family farm today?

We have a small 65 cow dairy but I consider any farm owned and operated by a family to be a family farm

We have families that farm from 80 acres to several thousand acres .I would say what's the difference between a farmer and an agribusiness man. I might say that if you love the life and love the land that makes the difference .

I think anything under 40 acres is a hobby farm.

Some families around here farm 4000 - 10000 acres

There was a post about the smallest farm a couple weeks ago. Can hardly put it down to size. I guess it would have to do with what is produced to be truly called a farm. Unless it's some situation like family owned for past 100 years, etc, I consider 80 or bigger a farm. Quite a few smaller farmers around here working night shifts or part time jobs farming.

(quoted from post at 22:21:35 10/04/16) What do you consider a family farm today?

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learly, the answer is simply an opinion, as there is no hard definition. Slow night? Looking for conversation? Well, here you go. I called ours a farm when it was 32 acres, still call it a farm at 250, but it was never really a farm, much more of a ranch. Only "crops" are cattle & hay. Call it whatever you like. :wink:

Anything that at least part of the family can make a living off of. That can vary greatly depending on management and standard of living. I know some guys that aren't making it on 10000 acres because they can't run any equipment more than a couple of years. Tony

If you would have grown up on a tobacco farm in Tn you would not have thought anything under 40 acers was hobby farming.

A farm run by a family like ours.

One that is owned and operated by a family with no family members in the operation, working jobs off the farm. I think if you work a job off the farm, then you are a hobby farmer. I also think that if you hire help on the farm, then you are kind of crossing over into the corporate farming end of things. Local amish farms are around 80 acres. Local non amish family farms around my area are probly no less than 320 acres to upwards of over 1000 acres. Not enough money to be made to support a family in my area farming in the modern way on less than 320 acres. Crops here are corn, wheat, soybeans, cattle/hay, and an occasional dairy.

I only know two farmers with less than 500 acres. They don't rent any land. Most farmers rent more land then they own. I think the average is 2500-3000 acres.

Farming sure has changed. When my dad opened his repair business in 1963. He had more customers with less than 100 acres than he had with over 300 acres.

Two of his customers farmed an 80. One with a JD model H.The other one had a 1939 Ford 9n and a 1936 Ford truck.

Another one had a quarter section with two Farmall C's.

And they all raised chickens,hogs,and cattle. Some had sheep also.

I'd think getting Gov't Subsidies to keep a farm going would make it a Hobby Farm a whole lot more than someone going out on their own with no cost to the taxpayers to supplement
their farm income.Most successful small farmers I've known had at least one sideline that bought in income like repairing equipment for others,doing some custom work with their equipment,selling seed,trucking other farmers equipment, produce,hay and livestock these are all 'off farm' jobs.

(quoted from post at 22:21:35 10/04/16) What do you consider a family farm today?

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It depends on what the farm produces. I know of 20 acre poultry farms that a family makes a living off of. My farm is over 400 acres and I barely support myself with 100 cows. Some areas are able to support a family with the same amount of cows on half that much land and some places it takes thousands of acres to run 100 cows. Vegetable farms my be less than 50 acres and can support a family but a wheat farm may be 5000 acres and barely eek out a living. Some families only have a couple of members and some may have a dozen or more. You can't put an acreage on a family farm

This guy claims to be mking 6 figures on 1.5 acres with no tractors and a 45% profit margin. I don't know how true it is but, he is growing vegetables and has the market in the area for that. That is not in all areas. Better closer to cities than rural areas, I suspect.
6 figure farm

I agree with Philip, My farming operation is over 300 acres and it is worked by my wife and I with a lot of help from our children and grand kids. We no longer have any livestock because they are a lot of work for little pay but we do some crop farming and make enough to pay the taxes. It helps that both my wife and myself retired with good pensions about 24 years ago. We have no debts so if we have a bad crop we still are not hurting like those who depend on the farm income for a living.

I believe you would call us hobby farmers and you would not get any denials from us. However it is not the size of the farm but what it produces that counts. Here they have a monetary check to see if the agriculture endeavors qualify as a farm for tax purposes and I believe that the amount is $10,000 or over of gross farm income.

Some around here call those BTO welfare farms because they rely on government handouts to stay in business . Never received any bad farming practices money.

Since hobby farms have been mentioned, I'll throw this out.

A former County Highway Superintendent of ours once commented that if someone is a part time farmer, that means he is also a part time county employee. Meaning he may put in full time hours for the county, but the physical and mental effort put into his farm have to affect his job performance for the county.

I have to agree.

In my part of the country corn/bean farm, maybe some livestock, about 600 acres per person. Typically some off farm income is involved as well.

Lot of 2500 acre farms, but that is dad and 3 sons and grandpa helps in the busy times.....

Quite a few 100-300 acre farms left too. But times are changing, the 20,000 acre deals are moving in too.

Paul

Times sure have changed, at least in my area. The old farm I now live on has been in my family for over 100 years. My first recollection of the place (110 acres) is when I was very small, and my grandparents owned it, and we visited them often. This was in the early 60's, and neither of them worked off the farm, nor drove, nor did they even own a tractor. They actively farmed the place, and my grandfather sold his two work horses when I was probably around 4, and somewhere I have a photo of him with those horses, and the horse drawn equipment is all still on the place. I recall my grandmother selling eggs, milk, cattle, and raising birds (song birds shipped to buyers out of state at the time). After the passing of my grandparents my parents raised cattle on the place, and no one lived on the property between 1976 (passing of my grandmother), until 2003 when I built a home on the property. Growing up around cattle I always stated I would never raise cattle, and so far I have stuck to that. I still recall the work involved, and very little income in comparison to the input costs and labor. Both my wife and I work jobs for large corporations now, driving to work in opposite directions, her driving 25 miles one way, and I normally drive 50 miles one way, or I do work at home from time to time. I cannot think of any way we could even come close to replacing our income off the small 110 acre farm (only about 60 acres would be productive. We do sell hay (a local guy cuts/bales each year for half, and purchases my half), but it does not even pay the property taxes on the property each year. A lot gets back to standard of living I suppose. Back when my grandparents lived on the property they lived a much different lifestyle, and most of the food they ate was raised on the property. You simply do not see much of that today. In many ways I do not even consider my place a "farm" since very little is produced off of it. I know of several small farms or acreages in my area that fit that same mold. Ironically on neighboring property next to me is part of a large "corporate" farm, which owns over 30,000 acres in MO, much of it in the immediate area (I consider them good neighbors, even though I have never met the actual owners, only a couple of hired hands that built some fencing next to me).

When we moved here in 72 most of the farms were 120-160 acre dairies. Most hired help with haying because back then most put up a large number of idiot cubes as they are known today but did most if not all of the other field work themselves. They had kids 5, 6 and older on tractors when needed too. Today we have 1000 plus acre farms, some grain, some grain and beef, some dairy. One, I know well over 2000 acres id truly a family farm. They own a lot and rent some too. Very large family. Something like 11 kids. The boys are split between farming and earth moving. If the ones farming need extra help the others pitch in. The ones with the earth moving need a little extra help they get it from their brothers who farm. They keep it in the family and don't hire outside help. The ones farming run JD combines, new about 4 or 5 years ago. 3 of them. It's a grain/beef operation. Another local wanted to farm but the family farm just wasn't big enough. He and his wife opened a business and ran it for years. When his parents passed and he got the farm he started farming. He's grown that to the point the last 10-15 years before they sold the business his wife ran that while he farmed. He's running a beef operation. He's well over 1000 acres but has to hire help. I'd call both of those family farms. I know a guy who farms a lot less acers with his parents. Organic. Don't laugh, they are making it work. He's a YT member too. IIRC about 40 acres. Veggies and poultry. I think a few sheep too. So that's a family farm too. If you don't want to work off the farm you either have to find a niche market, live a frugal lifestyle or have a lot of land.

As far as subsidies? Other than crop insurance and maybe disaster relief what subsidies? If it were not for those items a heck of a lot of family farms here today would have gone bust a long time ago.

Here what's normally referred to as a hobby farm is 40 acres or smaller with a few horses. They might even own a tractor that gets used for more than mowing lawn.

My BIL and nephew farm. Little over 1000 acres under tillage with several hundred more in pasture. Dairy, beef and grain. They hire help as needed but the nephew is the 3rd generation on that farm. No one I know suggest that because they hire help they ain't a family farm.

Rick

If the family is running it then I'd be hard pressed to say it's not a family farm. I think most folks would say my current operation is a hobby farm and to a large extent they are right. I try to treat it like a full farm business, as that's my intent, but with limited capital the business has to start small. First I started raising 200 chickens a year. On year three of chickens now and this year I was able to help a widowed neighbor with some property maintenance in exchange for pretty much free use of her 70 acre farm. We plowed up about an acre for some trial plots and did the rest in hay this year. Up to three tractors (all pre 1970), and a new 70hp one we borrow for some of the hay stuff. It's mostly myself, my dad, and a family friend. We've paid for our beers, but we really are in it to make money just at the moment it's about gaining experience. It's hard when you're a few generations from the last family farm. Realistically I'm managing 40 acres or so at this time for agricultural production. I did get to do a little bit of custom work and next year with my new IH 460 in operation I'm hoping to pick up some more.

(quoted from post at 09:36:50 10/05/16) Since hobby farms have been mentioned, I'll throw this out.

A former County Highway Superintendent of ours once commented that if someone is a part time farmer, that means he is also a part time county employee. Meaning he may put in full time hours for the county, but the physical and mental effort put into his farm have to affect his job performance for the county.

I have to agree.

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There is probably a certain amount of truth to that. What about those that spend their weekends hunting and fishing? Or what about those that spend their weekends bar hopping and chasing women? Are those activities any less taxing on their job performance? I would much rather hire a part time farmer than someone who sits on the couch drinking beer and stuffing his face with junk food all weekend. The work ethic and common sense of the part time farmer, typically, far outweighs any loss of production when compared to the typical weekend warrior.

(quoted from post at 09:36:50 10/05/16) Since hobby farms have been mentioned, I'll throw this out.

A former County Highway Superintendent of ours once commented that if someone is a part time farmer, that means he is also a part time county employee. Meaning he may put in full time hours for the county, but the physical and mental effort put into his farm have to affect his job performance for the county.

I have to agree.

Click to expand...

There is probably a certain amount of truth to that. What about those that spend their weekends hunting and fishing? Or what about those that spend their weekends bar hopping and chasing women? Are those activities any less taxing on their job performance? I would much rather hire a part time farmer than someone who sits on the couch drinking beer and stuffing his face with junk food all weekend. The work ethic and common sense of the part time farmer, typically, far outweighs any loss of production when compared to the typical weekend warrior.

I agree with that for sure. He needs to try raising 39 acres of dark fired one year and he would change his mind. Progressive farmer this month has a FAMILY FARM that is 22,000 acres.

I own 50 acres here, and bale hay from small neighbor fields totaling about 25 more acres, while working full time off-farm. The home place has been in the family for three generations. I consider it a family farm, even though I get little help from any family.

I tell people it isn't a hobby farm, more of a farming fetish :wink:

(quoted from post at 19:38:33 10/04/16) I think anything under 40 acres is a hobby farm.

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For about fifteen years I hayed about 95 ares and it was still just a hobby.

Please provide a list of government "handouts".

According to Mother Earth News (the holy grail of gray haired hippydom), 96.4% of all US farm land is family owned, not corporate owned.

(quoted from post at 19:15:00 10/05/16) Please provide a list of government "handouts".

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I have gotten paid for new seedings and I was offered money to not grow corn. friends have gotten paid for putting in water crossings that protect water quality and for feeding arrangements that prevent run-off.

That number is deceiving, and may drastically change in the future. For instance, I know a guy that is an incorporated farmer. Probly only about half of the land in the operation is his and included in the incorporation. The other half is mainly owned by his mother in law, and his son, and in their names. But it is all one operation with hired employees. They probly farm 4 or 5 thousand acres.

Another thing that is happening in my neck of the woods is land has gotten higher than it should be. The only people buying it is doctors, lawyers, and big business owners that don't farm. They in turn cash rent it to incorporated farmers. So that land is being farmed corporately, but listed in the court house as being owned by an individual.

Well, custom work for others I would say would be an off the farm job. Even if it is farm related. It is still hiring yourself out. As for government subsidies, thats a different story. They are set up for all farmers to collect. Little guy, family farm, or corporate. They pretty much all do. They would be stupid not to. There are a few that don't for some reason or another, but very few. I don't see how collecting subsidies has any thing to do with classification of what kind of farmer. Its part of the business.