Ford workmaster ground speed w/ implements issues

sreding1204

New User
My husband and I just bought a 1961 Ford Workmaster Tractor to plow/till our very poor (somewhat rocky/ clay) 2 acres to grow cut flowers. (48hp/ 30PTO hp) When researching tractors in our limited budget I was more concerned w/ getting a tractor with a PTO HP of 25-30 HP due to our heavy soil and to run a big enough rototiller. We ended up getting a 2 bottom plow and a Howard Model J Rototiller (1950's). Upon getting these hooked up and heading out into the pasture to pull them we found that when we turn up the throttle to manage the plow or run the tiller the speed in first gear seems WAY too fast to pull these implements....I looked up our tractor on tractordata and it says 1st gear is 2.5mph ground speed if I'm reading the table correctly. Is there a way to slow down our tractor by adding something to the transmission or are we stuck needing to sell it and get something else..FYI we only spent $3K on this tractor and that was the top end of our budget so stuck with finding tractors in a similar era. Ford seems to be the predominant maker on the west coast as well (we're in western WA). I am an absolute newbie w/ all this so breaking down any responses to dummy-level would be much appreciated :wink:
 
Probably to fast of a tractor for a tiller. My 641 pulls a plow and disc great. Maybe consider a disc instead of a tiller. When plowing I don't run the engine real fast, about 1200 rpms for the most part. Once the disc smooth's out the plowed ground some then I pick up the rpms. After using the disc you can also drag the ground with a spiked chain harrow, old piece of fence, or other homemade device to further prep your seed bed.
 
Thanks RobCons for the alternate approach. It did seem to pull the plow great as quite a bit of HP needed to do so. This ground has never before been worked so that was another consideration. It seems crazy to me that each tractor seems to excel at one or 2 uses. I feel like I need a fleet of tractors to complete all the potential jobs we might need :?
 
You have run into one of the problems with the older Fords to fast gearing. there used to be a thing
called a sherman trans that was installed in those tractors but that was in the 60s. If you want to run a
tiller you need a different tractor.
 
On the left side of the tractor, on a flat spot left of and below the battery tray, and above the starter is where you will find the tractor model and serial number. Its possible that over time the tractor has been painted or corrosion from battery acid or similar will make the stamped numbers hard to read or not legible, but you can gently clean the area and see what is there.

If you have a 4 speed, ie; your tractor is an 841 model, then you can have an auxilary transmission installed, mind you, with one of these, the pto speed will change as well, so unless you just need a lower travel speed, like Loren said, this is not a good tractor for 2 common implements; a 3 point hitch rototiller & snow blower. You can still find these transmissions today, but they have been obsolete for years, so condition is important. For what its worth, there are better options. Most of the manufacturers had a general purpose tractor like these, keep an eye out for others of the same era or the next generation up with features you need.

For tillage, you will be better off with an 8' mounted or even just a drawbar hitch disc harrow, and or a 3 point hitch mounted moldboard plow. A 2-14 101 ford plow is a good match for one of these, although it was sold as a 3 bottom plow tractor, heavier soils will be harder pulling. Just know with plows, conditions vary, wear parts need to be within tolerance,(not worn out ) mold board scoured and shining etc. Even if you have a 851 or 861, the 5 speed is still going to be too fast, though in first gear on previously tilled soils, its possible the tiller may work, but having an 850 and having run 3 point tillers, I'd rather have a Ford with Select-O-Speed, (thats another can of worms and not the best if you do not have any mechanical knowledge of them). The best bet in a ford would be a 3000 series, '65 to '75 model year with an 8 speed. They are out there, and they hold their value a bit too, but if you need more options for travel speed while keeping the pto at full RPM, its a good choice. A 2000 may work as well, but you have to make sure to know what transmission is in it. The 3000 with a 2 stage clutch / 8 speed is a good choice. We have a 3600, an '80 model year, next version up, with the 8 speed, it would be a good match for a tiller.
 
Probably to fast, but you got what you got, no harm or foul if you keep it.

As others mentioned, a disc harrow will work really nice with your tractor. You can find discs fairly cheap - used.

Once you disc, you might try running over the ground at a lower rpm, just for a final smoothing, but sometimes you can pull a railroad tie croaks
ways or some other heavy piece to drag the ground smooth. I want to say I've seen pics of chain link fence being pulled with a weight, like a
rail road tie attached to keep it taught while pulling to smooth out ground.

Today, flower garden, tomorrow, hay baler..... :)

Good luck,
Bill
 
If you stay in the domestic Ford brand look for a tractor with at least 6, preferably 8 forward speeds...more gears more options to match workload to power/speed. This would put you in the 1965 year thru '80s era of tractor. Even the select-o-speed would be good but they have some parts availability issues, so keep it simple. You can keep the implements you have, they will work on the tractors mentioned if you stay in the same hp category.
 
Ford used to sell howard rotovators and installed a Howard transmission to slow the tractor down. This transmission mounted at the rear of the tractor transmission and was only a couple inches thick. Search Worlds slowest tractor and read about an 8N with all available transmissions installed. It moves 9 feet per hour.
 
You could trade the tiller for a disc fairly easily or just sell the tiller and have cash to buy a used disc. Probably have some money left over. If you get a disc the ones with adjustable angles are nice.
 
Thanks for all the helpful comments about moving on from this oversight. The guy we bought the 2 bottom plow from actually had a disc he was selling as well so we'll have to contact him and see about trying that instead of the rototiller. I also found a Ford 2000 model tractor for sale locally and am awaiting the sellers response as to the year. It looks like the speed of the 6 or 8 speed 1st gear on that model is 1.4/1.6 mph. So I guess we'll have to choose which direction to take as far as sticking it out with this one or getting another tractor. I'm grateful for all the information and feedback on this forum- we'll have to definitely seek out some more information here as we move forward in learning!
 
Another thought. 2 acres is a fair sized patch, and if you are doing flowers, you want a pretty good bed. As others have said, plow it and disc it (picking rocks is part of the equation) then get a good (Howard or other) walk behind Rotovator. I had a Howard back when the dinosaurs all died out, and used it for a 1 Acre garden patch. The land hadn't been touched for 40+ years. It took 3 passes and I planted. Pretty good success the first year (most stuff grew). The second year I melded in some home grown chicken poop and homegrown sheep droppings. Excellent garden after that. HTH, and good luck ! ;^)
 

2X what Robcons said. I see a 3pt rototiller and a land plow as mutually exclusive. Roto-tilling is done if you don't have the capacity to bottom plow. Sell the tiller, then plow and disc. You will make a great bed for cut flowers. Gladiolas?
 
Thats not too fat to pull a plow but let the ground cure some before tilling then make acouple passes with the tiller. Fresh plowed ground will not work up goodit needs to dry some first. You will be OK
 
(quoted from post at 00:36:29 08/22/16)
2X what Robcons said. I see a 3pt rototiller and a land plow as mutually exclusive. Roto-tilling is done if you don't have the capacity to bottom plow. Sell the tiller, then plow and disc. You will make a great bed for cut flowers. Gladiolas?

I think we're going to go the disc route. So glad I posted on this forum before totally having a breakdown about our $3K mistake lol. We love the tractor as well- she's been taken care of and makes a beautiful prop for my flower pictures!! :D We're looking to grow tulips, sweet peas, ranunculus, sunflowers, zinnias, dahlias etc next year. We grew mostly dahlias and zinnias this year in our 1,500 sf garden but bringing on a tractor will help expand the possibilities next year :eek: I'm not sure if pictures work to post on your forum but you can see pictures of our tractor / flowers etc on our instagram @springboardfarm. Many thanks to all of you for taking time out of your day to help us figure out how to move ahead!!
 
Did you get a 4 speed version I would guess?

I am familiar with the 5 speed with live pto versions.

I can't remember using 1st gear ever for plowing, way too slow, we would run in third gear out of 5 most of he time.

I agree either the 4 or 5 speed is too fast for a tiller.

For 2 acres as others mention, your tractor should pull a plow and a disc really nicely to work up the ground.

Paul
 
Get you a 135 Massey Ferguson . Has high range low range in every gear youll be happy for ever. It will pull the 2
bottom plow and also the tiller.
 
(quoted from post at 03:01:23 08/22/16) I couldnt find your tractor but did see some nice livestock,was that your farm?
Yes there are also pictures of our (2) Highland cows, 3 pigs, and HighlandX calf. We squeeze a lot out of our land :D

https://www.instagram.com/springboardfarm/?hl=en

If you scroll down the page far enough you'll see the tractor....
 
Thanks I'll keep an eye out for that. Would be cheaper/ easier than a small fleet of several tractors I think most serious farmers end up with. The Workmaster is certainly prettier than the Massey though apparently not as useful. :wink:
 
My neighbor has a large massey on a 6 ft tiller. His goes slow, but the tiller in sod leaves large chunks of sod. After tilling, he runs a disk over it a few times.

His tiller isn't as good as the old troy bilt tiller with counter rotating tines. Not sure if there is a 3 pt counter rotating tiller.

I have a 30 inch counter rotating tiller on my garden tractor. It does a better job on soil that had been tilled. You may want to use a plow and turn the sod over before trying to till.

What kind of flowers are you going to plant? I'm a fan of flowers, just to look at, not to sell. Please Post pic of your flowers.

Good luck
 
As you learn - and farming takes a lot of learning - when you get that plow set level and you start making the rounds the other way so you
follow the furrow, you will laugh at your initial attempts at this! :)

Have fun with your adventure. Keep learning. :)

In the picture, your top link should be screwed much longer. When in the ground, the plow should be level front to back. You can see how
tipped up it is, only the points are in the dirt.

Also, it appears you are throwing dirt to the right, with freshly dug dirt on the left dide of you. Perhaps you are finishing up that field, but
normally you have the right side wheels in the furrow that was left the previous round, and untouched ground is on your left side.

In dry dirt and or clay soils it can be a challenge to turn over sod the first time, that might pull harder than anything you ever plow again. I know
mom and dad had to chain 2 tractors together to break old alfalfa or sod ground, when that was never need in regular fields. This was with 2 or
3 bottom plows and 30-40 hp tractors......

Maybe check some YouTube videos of 'plowing' to see what it should look like.

Have fun!

Paul
 

That Workmaster is pretty enough that it would earn it's keep just as a back drop in pics of flowers :D. As Paul said you need to lengthen the top link a lot, then level side to side and front to back with the right tire in a six inch deep furrow.
 
Captured the photo and enlarged it on my iPad, since I'm not registered Instagram can be a little funky....

That is a beautiful 641 Ford you have there, should suit your little operation well for years and years.

Breaking up sod is a tough thing, but you are only doing it once. After that working the ground is much easier, year after year. This first time through, your plow is a tad big for that tractor. Once the sod is broken, it will work great in following years.

I sure wish I could be there for an hour and show you how to set that plow up, you have everything just pretty much 179 degrees wrong on what you are trying to do. But Minnesota is a long ways away. Could you find an old farmer or an old tractor club nearby to help you, us types of people love to help out on such a deal as you have? Plow needs to be levels front to back, and after the first pass you need to set the crank on your tractor right side three point hitch so when your tractor wheels are in the furrow the plow is level left to right. Lots of tricks to setting up a plow and matching it to the tractor.

Paul
 
Without a doubt, Ford engineers really screwed up when they put the 4 speed transmissions in their tractors. I own two Fords, a 700 and an 841. Both are 4 speed and I find first gear way to fast for most operations, especially in situations where I need more RPM"s and slower tractor speed. Basically, they are good for raking hay and pulling trailers. I"m sure others find them to be perfect for all situations, but I don"t.
 
(quoted from post at 02:11:27 08/22/16) Did you get a 4 speed version I would guess?

I am familiar with the 5 speed with live pto versions.

I can't remember using 1st gear ever for plowing, way too slow, we would run in third gear out of 5 most of he time.

I agree either the 4 or 5 speed is too fast for a tiller.

For 2 acres as others mention, your tractor should pull a plow and a disc really nicely to work up the ground.

Paul

Paul- We did get a 4 speed. The guy we bought it from said it had a live PTO which when I looked it up seems to have been a feature w/ the 5 speed. There are clearly only 4 gears indicated on the shifter stick so idk what he thought. He was very knowledgeable about tractors in general but was a John Deere fanatic so I'm not sure if he knew much about this particular tractor. He'd used it for the three months he bought it raking 100 acres of grass hay...
 
Paul I love the story of your parents attempting to plow their field! Our land has been very neglected and I'm sure part of whats out their on the top half might even be fill dirt. It is incredibly hard and dry with some rocks and lots of clay. It's going to take a few years, a lot of rock picking, and a lot of effort from this tractor to get it into usable condition. I'm not opposed to hard work though so looking forward to the challenge
 
Haha 179 degrees wrong. My husband and I got a good laugh out of that. But seriously thanks for the honest feedback. We had to go buy a top link for the 3 point hitch as the tractor was missing this piece. I'm not sure how long this one extends- we might need to get a longer one to level up this plow. All your feedback has been so great. We have a lot of learning to do and I'm sure a few mistakes are inevitable. I'm not scared of looking a little stupid in the beginning- maybe in a few years I'll have figured out what I'm doing :lol:
 


Maybe I am not understanding what your rototiller is.. but..

most all tractors are TOO fast for a pto driven tiller. even most 8 speeds... Finding a tractor with a sherman or howard transmission added to it with the UNDERDRIVE mode, will work very well as they run half again as fast as regular tractors. Some have said get an 8 speed and NO.. they are still too fast for a pto tiller. The tractors that have a creeper range, or the sos ford power shift tractors all are suitable for extremely slow ground speeds for a pto tiller. So your basically looking for a oddball or specially option tractor. I have some sos tractors and I have some 12 speed creeper range tractors that both are almost too slow in the lowest gear for a pto tiller. Some of the japanese compact tractors will also come with a creeper range as these are popular options for jappanese rice paddy work. But these tractors are very small, break easily if pushed hard and very difficult to get parts for, so I dont touch compacts. If your going to lots of this and will want to run the pto tiller, I would try to locate one of these tractors and you will able to cover a lot of ground and do the extreame tillage your want. Otherwise using plows, dics, and cross ripping, and then cross discing, you come somewhat close to a pto tiller, but never as deep and as powdered as a pto roto tiller.
 
The Sherman transmission add on affects both the ground speed -and- the pto speed, so it does not help for a tiller. Using the Sherman to slow
down, the pto also goes equally slower....

The Howard add on was designed for running tillers and will do the proper slow down, but they are quite rare and a major operation to install.

Paul
 
Hard clay soils with some rock - I know this well. :)

It was common back in the 1950s or so to need two tractors to break up a compacted old alfalfa field. Chain on the front of one, to an old
pickup tire, then a chain to the front tractor. The tire gave a bit of cushion so it didn't jerk so bad.

Have fun with the grand plan. You will get there.

Paul
 
The best type of tractor to run a rototiller is one with a hydrostatic transmission. However, you are never going to find anything with enough power and heft to run that size tiller, in any sort of operable shape, for $3000.

Tillers are not good for the soil anyway. They tend to break up the dirt too fine, then it gets wet once, sets like concrete, and doesn't let the water penetrate.
 
(quoted from post at 08:58:40 08/22/16)

Maybe I am not understanding what your rototiller is.. but..

most all tractors are TOO fast for a pto driven tiller. even most 8 speeds... Finding a tractor with a sherman or howard transmission added to it with the UNDERDRIVE mode, will work very well as they run half again as fast as regular tractors. Some have said get an 8 speed and NO.. they are still too fast for a pto tiller. The tractors that have a creeper range, or the sos ford power shift tractors all are suitable for extremely slow ground speeds for a pto tiller. So your basically looking for a oddball or specially option tractor. I have some sos tractors and I have some 12 speed creeper range tractors that both are almost too slow in the lowest gear for a pto tiller. Some of the japanese compact tractors will also come with a creeper range as these are popular options for jappanese rice paddy work. But these tractors are very small, break easily if pushed hard and very difficult to get parts for, so I dont touch compacts. If your going to lots of this and will want to run the pto tiller, I would try to locate one of these tractors and you will able to cover a lot of ground and do the extreame tillage your want. Otherwise using plows, dics, and cross ripping, and then cross discing, you come somewhat close to a pto tiller, but never as deep and as powdered as a pto roto tiller.

I have a Ford 4000SU 8 spd that does 1.4 mph in 1st gear at pto speed, I pull a 7ft tiller with it tilling in each direction, back and forth and cross ways. when finished the ground is almost a powder. I don't consider it to fast for tiller work.

In heavy sod it's best to plow and level it down some with a disc or drag before tilling or it will take several passes with a tiller to any depth.
 

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