Repairing your own tractors?

All the info and equipment is out there, you just have to be willing to buy it. I run an independent auto repair shop, anything factory I want I can get, I just have to pay for it. The trouble is, electronic gadgetry is relatively new to the ag sector, so it's new and scary. We have been dealing with the electronics in the auto industry since the late '70s. Some people can't come to grips with a scan tool being a required tool as much as a screw driver. Independent ag repair shops are going to have to pony up for equipment, folks aren't going to run non-electronic forever as their main tractor, although the idea is romantic. I will say the auto industry benefits from a small amount of mandated commonality among all makes, but it was not like that before '96 and OBDII. SAE commonality will come to the ag sector, it will just take time, the heavy truck industry has started down this road also.
 
(quoted from post at 20:35:38 07/25/16) All the info and equipment is out there, you just have to be willing to buy it. I run an independent auto repair shop, anything factory I want I can get, I just have to pay for it. The trouble is, electronic gadgetry is relatively new to the ag sector, so it's new and scary. We have been dealing with the electronics in the auto industry since the late '70s. Some people can't come to grips with a scan tool being a required tool as much as a screw driver. Independent ag repair shops are going to have to pony up for equipment, folks aren't going to run non-electronic forever as their main tractor, although the idea is romantic. I will say the auto industry benefits from a small amount of mandated commonality among all makes, but it was not like that before '96 and OBDII. SAE commonality will come to the ag sector, it will just take time, the heavy truck industry has started down this road also.

The problems is more deep seated. To my understanding you can't buy the diagnostic equipment unless you are a dealer for right now JD. And JD is working hard to make sure no one can make a scan tool for it aftermarket. In other words they are forcing you to support the dealer. The auto companies tried that but there were too many voters out there that didn't like that idea so that didn't fly. Farmers make up a very small part of the voting public so it isn't overly important to most politicians.

Rick
 
You hit on the biggest problem when it comes to electronics in any type of equipment....a lack of commonality. I've mentioned this to several people lately when discussing the future of independent mechanics.

One good thing. As the new stuff comes out, and the dealerships pick up all of the new 'technicians' to work on the new equipment, that leaves more of the old stuff for us real mechanics to work on. Why, because most of these new guys don't know how to troubleshoot without a computer telling them what part to change.
 
Based on the article, Deere is just being greedy. The way to handle them would be for the farmers to STOP BUYING DEERE. When their profits drop from lack of sales, they will get the hint that the consumers aren't happy with their way of doing business.

I have yet to understand why things like this don't happen more often. Instead I see people continue to buy new stuff, and then turn right around and complain about it....Other than 'modern conveniences' like A/C, etc, most wish it was like the older stuff they just got rid of.....like I recommended they not do.........

That said, there's no reason Deere should have issues giving out, at a minimum, basic troubleshooting codes, and their meanings. Heck, I don't know of a construction equipment mfg that doesn't do this. Granted the manuals are expensive as heck, but at least anyone, dealer or independent, can work on the machine when it goes down, at least to some degree.

Like I said, this is all about Deere being greedy, and the consumers are going to have to realize THEY are the ones holding the real cards, regardless of what Deere may think.
 
Some new guys just throw parts at it. I am working with a man on his RV generator. 2000 dollars worth of parts and labor and it still doesn't work. Now they tell him the rotor and stator are bad. Which is something they should have checked in the first place.Another 2400.00 dollars. If true. Main office is fixin to get some very heated emails and phone calls.
 
Apparently many people aren't buying them according to a friend that sells new tractors,he said many farmers he knows are totally rebuilding their older tractors.You can get most tractors in
top shape for less than half what a new one costs probably for 25 cents on the Dollar.The electronics on the new tractors are giving the owners fits too from what I'm hearing.
 
"Deere is Greedy" and that greed has been growing fast,,They allowed for the "Mega Dealers" to take over complete states and thus eliminating compation, plus making some farmers drive for a couple hours just to get parts,,along with this "Greed Fest" they have been using cheap China parts such as castings as well as electronic components,,all this adds to a major problem with new equipment. We are seeing the good old basic work horses like the 40's up to the 60's being rebuilt and put back on the work force, and it is being done at a fraction of the cost of a new piece. This is keeping my shop very busy around here,, my best advertisement is when some one takes a tractor to a Deere shop for repairs,, our local Mega Dealer trys to make an example to make you think it would be cheaper to junk it rather than repair it, The over priced "Horror Stories" are bone chilling and sad...one customer took a 4960 in for a transmission planetary brake failure and got the shock of his life when he went to pick it up and was confronted with a $45,000 bill,,and with "No" advanced notice...I have been doing them for about $18,000 for the same operation...
 
The communists know everything because we can't keep any secrets. Seems like almost everyone has to go online and tell everything that they know - even the politicians. The comment the other day asking How can people be so stupid goes far deeper than the people involved in that story.
 
I Heard it, but, did not totally understand the issues ,now I do ,,easy to understand why some mechanix I know have quit working for muther deere and went to work in shops elsewhere ,we have a good local dealer 15 miles away with 3 locations within 50 miles of one another . the bto nearby leases all new green toys,,. and when they go down ,, AND THEY DO, he calls the dealer , and they are out there quick or else ,.. now just imagine all of us that fix our own stuff leased green toys that needed immediate attention ??,./ gonna take a lot of service techs,,.
 
William Hewitt must be spinning in his grave at how the company he did so much for is being run.
 
The next step is when they make the parts to repair the older units NLA and lock up the patents so no one can make them aftermarket. They have already done this on really old stuff.
 
So many of the products developed and patented today are invisible. If someone copies a patented Deere logo and puts it on their own companies machinery or caps or tee shirts it's blatantly obvious it was pirated because the copied logo is sticking right out there in plain sight. Pirated software designed to run a tractor is not visual, you can't see it or touch it. If Deere or CIH or Agco don't put some kind of a block in their computers, anyone can plug into the tractor to copy the software they have spent millions on to develop.

Computerized tractors came about because of mostly EPA mandates but that isn't the only reason. We are partly to blame because MOST of us like our modern conveniences. There is a reason why I put the word most in caps. I am perfectly comfortable running my thirty year old tractors in the field, but I will admit I feel like I'm in heaven when I'm at the wheel of an ultra modern tractor with all of its computer controlled
functions. The software programming of the computer in that tractor is the silent invisible patented product we can't see or touch.
 
I don't like the way things are headed with tractor electronics. I even had an education about that with my truck recently. I had to replace the fuel pump control module and had to have the truck programmed to accept it. Ok so programming is one thing but not being able to diagnose the simple things by reading the code that set the fault light is another more limiting problem. We have had several codes come up on the new tractors and its about impossible to get a good answer on what the code means even from the dealer. Yes it makes one think it would be easier to rebuild the old ones than deal with the problems of the new ones. We have had some problems with the new stuff but not anything too serious.
 
We have perplexing problems with our older stuff too. The best mechanics on this forum have asked for help with a seemingly simple problem that can't be solved on some old tractor. The difference between old and new is the new stuff has so darned more many functions to go haywire and those functions are tied into many more functions that can mask the problem. I have a hunch these young mechanics today who have to rely on diagnostic electronics will someday become good troubleshooters in their own way. We all know that modern diagnostic equipment can give a wrong diagnosis. The young mechanic, through mere experience will someday be able to have a hunch whether this scanned code he is looking at is correct or not. We old guys just aren't geared to think the same way the young mechanic has to think.
 
My comment is not germane to this Deere issue but in general with complex mobile electronics. I recently debugged a problem with the drivers side electric window in a 2004 Silverado. This was a LS unit that is pretty basic. Digging into the door switch assembly, I find a stacked circuit board with 3 or 4 integrated circuits and some surface mount components. IN A SIMPLE DOOR SWITCH ASSEMBLY! They actually program those as a separate unit. Nothing mechanical was wrong with the door. The motor was fine. The signals to the door were fine. The stupid, overly complex, circuit assembly had fried. A new one was over $200 bucks and you had to have the GM dealer program it TO RUN THE WINDOW UP AND DOWN!!! Really? I bought a used unit on fleabay for $90 bucks from a similar truck and all was better.

Way too much over designed, and overly complex components in these new vehicles.

John
 

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