synthetic oil

Can you use synthetic oil in older engines? Dont know much about the synthetic oils but been hearing alot about them but was wondering if they will work in older
tractor engines. Thanks
 
Uh oh. Let the fun begin...

It's up to you. An older engine - does it leak or burn oil? It could be a costly venture if so. How old are we talking? The oils made today are heads and tails better than the oils made while the machinery was new. Any oil is better than what it used to get.
 
Why not? Just observe the C (compression) or S (spark) rating and the recommended viscosity. I leak more than I burn which isn't much either way. I guess you could just use WW 10-30 S rated in an older tractor without hurting anything. I never investigated the need for C ratings in older farm equipment that didn't have to meet new emission standards for soot, sulphur, Ash, and engine hygiene and all that. Would I do it in my 60's Fords????????? Yes now that I think about it! I already keep that around for my gas lawn mowers so I could just buy extra and use it in the old tractors. Currently running 15w-40 dino in the older ones, C rated and the price of both oils I mentioned are about the same. Course with synthetic base stocks, S rated oils should be low on Sulphur and Ash anyway, just get the viscosity to suit you..
 
I supposed you could, but IMHO would not be economically productive.

Synthetic oil has it's place, especially in high heat, turbo charged engines, air cooled engines, high tech engines, applications that see long hours, hard service.

The older tractors were designed to work with the oil that was available "back in the day". They turn slow, had low compression ratio, wide bearing surfaces.

Today's oil is much better, additive packages that didn't exist a few years ago, viscosity modifiers, detergents and corrosion inhibitors.

One advantage standard petroleum oils have, you can still get diesel engine oil with the zinc additive that works well with the older engines with flat tappet lifters. As far as I know, none of the synthetics have zinc. Zinc is being phased out as it doesn't get along with emission controls, and is not needed in roller cam engines.

If this is a pulling tractor, or is still working hard, and has been recently rebuilt and everything clean, synthetic could be an option. But I would personally hesitate to switch to synthetic on an old engine with heavy deposits in the crankcase.
 
If your older tractor has just been overhauled then the synthetic would be fine. I have seen tractors and older cars/trucks that used lite to any oil start to leak and use oil badly after synthetic oil was used in them. My son had an S-10 pickup that had around 90K on it and he decided to change it over to synthetic oil. It immediately started using a quart of oil every 500 miles and had rear main seal leak. Switched it back to regular oil and the oil leak quit but it still used a quart of oil every 1000 miles. Before he change to the synthetic oil it would not use a quart between changes, 3000 miles.

Also older cork gaskets can fall clear apart when exposed to synthetic oils. I think that the synthetic oil is too good of a cleaner for some older gaskets.

I have found little advantage in synthetic being ran in older vehicles. In newer high tech motors with close tolerances it works well.
 
Belgian has it right. Despite all the BS and the naysayers there's absolutely no reason you can't use synthetic oil if you are willing to pay the added cost.

In general, all the oil mechanics' wives tales about increased oil usage or increased oil leakage are just that... old mechanics' wives tales.

But (just like bookface), rumors persist and get spread far and wide, with no basis in fact.
 
I have an 06 Chevy Impala with 3.9 V6 that had less than 20,000 miles when I bought it. Car used no oil in the first 3,000 miles I put on it. Asked dealer what to use and said to use synthetic oil and that is what I did. But in the next two oil changes it used 1 quart every 1,000 miles. After that I went back to conventional oil and car doesn't use a drop of oil . Can you explain that one? I am using synthetic oil in new generator and snow blower but jury still out on them because not much time on them yet.
 
D beatty,

My boy's Camery has the same problem, except Toyota is going to replace his pistons and rings because of oil issues and class action.

I tried synthetic in my GMC and Buick. Same problem you had.

My Jubilee has a total rebuild, full synthetic seems to stay cleaner and lasts longer. My simple test for tractors and mowers is when the oil turn dark it will start to use oil and then it time to change it. I tried synthetic in my terramites, one has a 20 hp Kohler command, other 20 hp Honda. They get worked the hardest and get the hottest. Full synthetic didn't last longer than the conventional oil in those two engines.

Side note, both terramites, when hot, would have issues with dieseling. Both have solenoid shut offs in carb. I tried many things like letting them cool down, but still ran the risk of dieseling. So I removed the ignition kill wire, turn key off, remove power to carb solenoid and engines dies in a few seconds, no possibility of dieseling.
geo.
 
One winter I was feeding a round bale a day with my D-14, which meant it was only running for 15 - 20 minutes a day. When it got real cold, I would have a slight rapping in the top part of the motor, until it got warmed up - of course, the way I was using it never warmed it up, so I tried synthetic in it.
It solved the noise issue, and made it start easier. I was worried that it would create leaks or an oil burning issue, but no problems.
Pete
 
Just adding my opinion here....
I see no advantage in synthetic. Costs more - a LOT more than dino oil. You still need to change it at the recommended intervals. Also is a lighter viscosity, so in a worn engine, it will probable consume more between changes.
Given that an old tractor engine (or car engine for that matter) ran just fine on the older oils for years and years, what would be the point of changing to synthetic?????
 
That's strange, we ran 3 Impala LTs with the 3.9 engine up to 200K using synthetic and never had an issue with burning oil - failing intake manifolds were still an issue though. The newer Impalas with the 3.6 "require" synthetic.
 
I'm back in on this one. Had my beer and popcorn, took my nap and ready for round 2. Ha! (I don't drink but a good yarn.)

I run syn in my air cooled lawn mowers because it lasts 2 seasons without getting dirty and I just think it's time to change. I'm not the oil change nut I once was.

Don't give me this baloney about it stays clean because it doesn't have adequate detergent.....sell that one to a moron! It stays clean because the base stocks resist breakdown better! I don't add oil between changes but I do put in 2 quarts for convenience in my V twins of Honda and BS brands even though they specify something less.....just convenient (quart marks on the container) and mowing the hills I do, I want plenty of oil over the oil pump inlet. You hear this and that about don't overfill....well I never had a problem whipping up oil in a crankcase because it was over full and I'm not worried about MPG on my lawn mowers.

Here's the caveat: You can access the operational specified temp ranges of syn. type oils on the www so I'm not going to bore you with that, but they stay together on up to 400F on some charts.

The other day I had a 20 hp BS V twin working it hard in 90+ heat for a couple of hours. Drove over to the shop and got out my HF infrared no contact thermometer (have 2) and looked all over the engine for temps. Obviously the muffler was hot....550F give or take, but on the rest of the engine I couldn't find a temp over 186F. Shucks, My 2011 Silverado sits on 210F solid as a rock....per the temp gauge, has 2 sequential electric fans rather than an engine driven fan to keep it there since new.

So my original theory that air cooled engines run hotter and that justifies paying the extra for syn. is a bunch of "hot air", just that......BALONEY! Butttt the oil does stay cleaner longer and instead of changing a couple of times per season it's 2 seasons as stated above. That is well worth the cost to me!

That's more of my 2c and worth every penny you paid for it. Grin!
 
Last VOA's I looked at for CJ rated oils still showed around 1200ppm zinc. Delo was lower but they were phasing in different additives for boundary lubrication.
 

NO... virtually all diesel oil is now down to low moly and zinc.. because... the chemicals are attracted to very hot surfaces,, and will coat them .. this will render the catalyst systems useless. so all new diesel oils are NOW running lowered amounts just like the GAS versions. HOWEVER... Diesel oils still have the high bases additives to fight acids, and other additives to handle soot.. that gas engines dont need.. so there is STILL a big difference..

And there are many many simi synthetic oils and fully synthetic oils out there. any time you run a 15w-40 oil it usually is a group 3 synthetic blend... a 5w40 has much more synthetic, but may not be 100 % synthetic, as they will blend it to the amount needed to get the performance needed..

As to making engines use oil... yes... if the seals are already worn out... the hd oils will remove sludge deposits and slowly clean the engine. AND if the seals are worn out, hard, and cracked... removing the sludge coating will expose the seals.. and the rest is history. IF the seals are good, running an hd oil will NOT make it burn oil,, Infact it can actually clean the rings and ring landings and make it run better by increasing the compression by freeing up the rings... So.. your experience will vary based on what the engine has used and how it was treated.

Cheap oil will thicken and turn to sludge.. the thinner part will boil off and vaporize,, the heavy waxes and parrifins will settle out to sludge. The longer you use it, the thicker it will get. Also the complex molecues will shear or separate and break down.... simi synthetic oils DO NOT do this.. the rest is the additive package .
 
I thought the CJ-4 had just about removed the "zinc" content of oil. Newer formulations of Rotella T6 (synthetic) are API SM rated and have extremely low levels of ZZDP for use in both diesels and gas cars.
 
Agreed. My understanding is if its a CI or CJ oil AND rated SM or SL (or SN) it's pretty much had the ZZDP removed. To use it in a modern gas engine (rated for SL, SM and SN) the zinc has to be lowered or it will destroy the cats.
 

lots of comments below.. typical of any oil discussion.

depends on what you call "OLDER". if its pre 1970 maybe not. they pretty much quit using hemp gaskets around 1960ish. the "ish" is what i'm not sure of date wise.

synthetic oils do NOT work with hemp gaskets if the "OLDER" equipment has them. it WILL leak. if the gaskets were replaced with modern materials you should be ok.

another thing to watch for if switching to synthetics (at least with AMSOIL) is that it will clean the motor out removing the varnish and other deposits. not an issue other than it could make bad seals (seals that were using dirt to hold the oil in) leak and could plug a filter with all the "dirt" if that happens change the filter and you should be good to go.
 
might have to go with specialty oil manufacturer to find regular zinc levels. your local wallymert nappa may not carry much variety.
 
All I have been running is Shell 15-40 Rotella in my 1997 GMC pickup and have had no trouble with cats and she's about 20 years old.
 
Is it API rated SM or SL? Then its formula is such that it won't harm the cats - that's the whole point of the API rating.
 
I still run the old formula Rotella 15-40 for diesel with zinc. I run it in every thing but the car,generator, and snowblower.
 
I would not put full synthetic oil in an older engine, you are asking for trouble. It will probably burn it. You might get by with a synthetic blend!
 

Is this engine used in extreme heat, extreme cold, extreme rpms, exotic fuels or under extreme HP ratings?
What is the intended gain by using synthetic ?
 

I tried Synthetic in my Ford Taurus with low mileage and it also used 1 Quart/1,000 Miles..

Semi-Synthetic "Blend" seems to work and I extend the change interval with it..
 
My Mother passed a year ago last February, I inherited her 2011 Toyota Camry. Toyota says if I use 0W-20 (synthetic) I should change oil every 10,000 miles, If I use a 5W-20 (synthetic or conventional) I should change oil every 5,000 miles. I use the synthetic stuff, if I think Toyota is to stupid to know what kind of oil and how often I should change it I don't think I want one of their cars.

I used to be a thick oil freak, from 30,000 to 180,000 miles the only oil I used in our Accord was a Castrol 5W-50. I don't spring for the synthetic stuff much any more for it although once or twice I have used Delo 5W-40 in it. I try to stay with a name brand and will use a 5W-30 (recommended) or a 10W-40 as it'll have 299,000 miles at the next oil change, and yes I will do a 30,000 mile service to include trans oil, filters, plugs and set the valves. I'll also bet it ran 5,000 miles on the oil change with out topping it off.

We also have a Dodge Grand Caravan, to make a long story short I missed an oil change and it went 10,000 miles before I knew it, it's used a quart every 2,000-2,500 since then. I use the manufacturer's recommended 5W-20, but I try to stay with a better brand like Castrol or Valvoline although the oil for the next oil change is in the van's shop bin and it's "parts master" (made by Ashland Oil Company (the folks that bring you Valvoline)

When I cared for the county's motor pool I had the oil changed at 3,000. Several reasons, if we couldn't get a hold of the car for a while we were still with in the manufacturer's recommendations. We washed cars at every oil change and the labor to get the car to the oil change and wash was almost as much as the service cost itself. With a licensed mechanic looking them over every 3,000 miles it made it harder for the union to pin a grievance on me for vehicle related issues and heavens forbid if anyone got injured in one of our cars the inspection records might help us beat any negligence claims on the part of the county by the injured.

I was taught that oil and grease are cheap and even expensive oil and grease are cheaper than parts, but you still need to do some diligence on your part. I wrenched at a golf course when I was in college, the Greenskeeper that hired me was buying this super duper high dollar red oil (supposedly the red oil was easier to see on grass in case you had a leak) The first yearr I was there I replaced a lot of engines. The second year I was there and I know the oil changes were kept up I still replace a lot of engines. At the end of the second year we got a new Greenskeeper and we decided to switch to Rotella oil from our local distributor, it was about 1/2 the price and I didn't change as many engines (the idiots in the pro shop still burnt up the engine in their truckster and Sand Pros were hopeless until Toro upped them from a K181 to a K241 engine). Another benefit with the Rotella is when I had an engine problem once I showed the dealer's service manager the oil change records and told 'em we were using Rotella our warranty claims got paid, usually pretty quick. I still think the guy that hired me was getting a kick back on the oil.
 

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