Relocate trailer lights

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
Any reason why I can't relocate lights high
on fender and position plate between ramps?
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a227726.jpg
 
Plate doesn't appear to be an issue as long as it has a while illuminating lamp. NHSTA cites tail lights being on the "rear" of the trailer, but as noted in the previous post, there must be latitude in that interpretation. Height appears to be more of a concern that offset from the rear of the trailer.

Each state has slightly different regulations so a quick search for trailer lighting restraints for your particular state would be a good start.
 
To be legal tail lights must be within 3' of the rear of the trailer, 5' for temporary extentions.
 
A better solution would be to just fix your current light box then add gussets in front so that anything you hit will be guided out past the light without damage. I would add a gusset top and bottom of the light box and far enough forward so it's less than 45? angle, then plate the front of the gussets so it's boxed in. That way folks can still see your lights but the box won't get torn up so easy.
 
Disagree, trailer swings out too much. Damaged too many things. Secondly, twice I stepped on the angled part of fender and picked myself off the ground. I'll make square fenders and put lights inside fender. Less likely to ever damage lights again.
 
I'll take my chance. Be my first ticket ever and I'm 67. Ticket will be cheaper than a trip to ER.
 
Look at Ray Hofstetter's trailer pic. Lights are a greater distance from the end of the trailer than my lights are going to be. Looks like a factory made trailer. So legal or not, I'll take my chances. My lights will be higher and should stand out more than Ray Hofstetter's. I'm tired to the lights where they are, not to mention how many times the lights have damaged thing when I forget how far they swing out. Thank you, Don't take this personal. George
 
jon,
Looks like I could get a ticket now because my factory lights aren't 20 inches off the ground. No mention of how far from the end of the trailer they have to be. So by putting them on the fender I should be legal.

Plan to put plate between ramp and replace the center light with a regular tail light so it can light up the plate.

INDIANA
A motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or any other vehicle that is pulled at the end of another vehicle must be equipped with at least 1 rear-mounted red taillight. This taillight must be plainly visible from a distance of 500 feet away. This vehicle must also be equipped with 2 or more rear-mounted white taillights. These taillights must be mounted between 20 inches and 72 inches from the ground. A separate white light must be placed on the vehicle so that it illuminates the rear plate and makes it clearly visible from a distance of 50 feet. All of these taillights must be properly wired so that when the headlights are illuminated, these lights are also illuminated.

george
 
The regulations in ?393.11 say......

Tail lamps
2
Red
Rear
One lamp on each side of the vertical centerline at the same height and as far apart as practicable
Both on the same level between 381 mm (15 inches) and 1,829 mm (72 inches) off the ground

No mention is given as to how far from the rear of the trailer they can be.

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It also says......

Side marker lamp
2
Red
One on each side
As far to the rear as practicable
Not less than 381 mm (15 inches), and on the rear of trailers not more than 1,524 mm (60 inches) off the ground

So you can put the tail lights on the fender but the marker light needs to be on the rear.
Look at Ray's trailer and you will see this.
 
I wonder what year these laws were written? One red tail light? Two or more white tail lights?

Any white light visible from the back other than a plate light would be cause for a citation.

All of these taillights must be properly wired so that when the headlights are illuminated, these lights are also illuminated?
I wonder how many semis that run in Indiana would be illegal because of a separate C/L trailer light switch?
 
Law has changed now from 3' to 4' beyond the tail lights without a permit. These rules are the same for any trailer, but this is the only pic I could find. Anything over 4' beyond the tail lights requires a permit to be legal.
a227743.jpg
 
The other legal requirement is that the tail/brake/turn light has to be visible from the rear. If they are way up there on the fender at least the right side will be hard to see and a lawyers dream come true. On ray's trailer the marker light must be visible from both side and rear, so that is also illegal. I will bet money that if measured the tires will be over 102" as well. When steel tracks on skid steers became popular the larger loaders required 83" between the fenders and many manufacturers skirted the law by making the fenders 102" and letting the tires hang out. All technically illegal but mostly ignored.
 
You need to re-look at those rules as I suspect they are decades old. No-one has used a white tail light in my 30 years of building trailers and even finding them will be tough. All the rear lights or lights facing rear should be red. Lights forward of the rear edge and not facing rearward should be Amber. This does not include the white plate light. Any Amber light can be white but I doubt you can even find any.
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a227750.jpg
 
I have always thought that was a poor mounting for the lights
When I see a trailer like that.
So with that said seems also to me that the driver needs to pay
More attention when pulling the trailer.
It's easier to skin up a trailer than not.
Take practice keeping them straight.
Tom
 
On a pickup truck all lights would work with headlight switch. I drove for an Indiana based freight line and clearance lights were on a separate switch. That way if we lost tail lights we still had clearance lights and if clearance went out we still had taillights.
 
Not to add fuel to the fire Jon, but, "visible from the rear"- if you're right up on the trailer you won't see both lights, but 50 or 100 ft back you'll see both lights.
 
I believe you and agree, but the attorney is going to find the spot where they can't be seen and claim that's spot that would have prevented the accident. Especially with no rear facing clearance lights. I know it's bs, but when my company starts listing the things they have paid out for you get an appreciation for the finer points.
 
Some time you get in a tight spot. You are
looking forward to turn and get into
trouble. Last time I was pulling off scales
at recyclers when it got into guard rail.

Been thinking of putting lights on fender
and another set between ramps where there
are 3 running lights and locate plate below.

Make the best possible solution.
George
 
At the distance the jackwagons around here follow at, the only reason they'd see the left tail light is they follow you for 10 miles with their left wheels in the oncoming lane before passing.
They'd never see the right one.
 
Ray Hofstetter,
You made a good point, If I'm going 60, drivers should be at least 6 car lengths back. Cars are about 20 ft so cars should be at least 120 ft back. Why should anyone any closer? There is no reason why they can't see both lights if they are not tailgating.

I see your trailer, looks factory made, and lights are located on fenders. How long have you had the trailer and how many times have you been stopped? How many tickets for lights?

My lights are in the wrong place, period. If I move plate between ramps, then why not put another set of stop/tail lights where running lights are, I'll need to put light on plate any how.

My plate is now mounted on a flexible rubber and it gets bent up, torn up and after three years before they send me a new plate is a mess. Wonder I don't get stopped for cops not being able to read plate.

My trailer is for personal use, never get in interstate, DOT isn't interested in stopping us local boys with no business advertisement on our trucks. I've never been stopped by the cops. How many times have you?

Geo
 
As bad as that is banged up why not cut it off and build a new light brackets out of heavy enough steel so to not bend up as easy and maybe bolt them on so if you do bend them you can replace it easier. Those three lights in center have to stay they are required by law. You could mount your plate on fender.
 
Looks like the current lights stick out past the wheels.
I'd keep them mounted near the back, and turn the oval lights vertical, to narrow up the rear of the trailer.

I put oval lights under the back of a trailer once, hung from heavy door hinges. Worked quite well, they swung around a bit if something hit them. Til dad hooked the safety chains to the backhoe bucket to move the trailer to save 5 minutes, and drive the back of the trailer into a topsoil pile.

Somebody was not a happy camper that day.
 
If you base your lighting requirements on whether or not you've been tagged in the past why bother with lights at all? Someone with your luck should be able to get by without. Just go to Tx or Nm. to see that's ok. Save a lot on maint that way too.
 
No thanks, I stay local 99% of the time. Only one time did I run the interstate with trailer to pick up another tractor. I'm not commercial, think that might make a difference? The lawn care services get by without dot # and cops don't seem to shive a get.

I'll let you know if and when I get tagged for moving my lights. Thanks for you help.
geo.
 
If it were me, I would just learn to drive and fix them. Maybe you can put them on the fender and shingle over them and strap your blue gas cans to the shingles.
 
I'm not the least bit worried about you getting a ticket, but someone else getting hurt because they can't see your lights would suck. Don't much care for folks that play russian roulette with other folks lives. Maybe try a light like this below your ramp mounts. You could still move your others to the fender for a little extra
Lights
 
Ray Hofstetter,
I was considering buying a trialer like yours until I as a man who had one similiar to yours how does it pull empty? He said it bounces all over the place and kicks the truck to death. Is that true?
geo
 
Federal DOT rules state you must have the three red "clearance" lights in between the ramps when the trailer is 80" or wider overall. Might vary from state to state, but most use the Federal rules for lighting.

If you replace them with a set of tail lights and a license plate light, you will probably get a ticket for that too on the wrong day.
 
(quoted from post at 21:07:28 05/25/16) Any reason why I can't relocate lights high
on fender and position plate between ramps?

George, speaking as a retired cop, DOT Inspector and farmyard mechanic, what I would do in your situation is look for a more compact light fixture to start with. Then I'd mount it in a better designed bracket that was built with longevity in mind. Personally, I want the tail lights back where Kid Rock and Grammy Martha can see them clearly as possible. If you aren't a CMV and your state doesn't abide by Federal DOT regs, then aim to meet the State requirements and go from there.

I'm not even going to mention that stake pockets are not tie down points.........
 
Bret, I googled and posted what I found out about Indiana somewhere. Do have anything
better? Please post.

So tell me where I can mount the lights and not damage things when trailer swings in a
turn. What I have isn't working.

Secondly, trailer has 4 D rings which I use to secure tractors. Then I use 4 more
straps and stake pockets for backup.

One time I almost put the trailer in a lake. I wasn't paying attention while leaving a
friends house. His road is about 30 feet above lake on each side. While making a right
hand turn, a steel pipe in concrete grabbed my finder and pulled trailer off the road.
I looked in mirror, saw backhoe about to tip off the trailer. I nailed the gas, pulled
the trailer back on the road and without the straps on stake pockets I'm sure the
backhoe would be in the lake. I Worked about an hour getting fender off the wheel. The
fenders is made of heavy diamond plate metal.

After that lesson, I will always use 8 straps to secure load. Didn't know stake
pockets were against the law. What is your solution? I want to strap my loads 8
ways to Sunday.

My first thought when I almost went for a swim: How am I going to explain this to my
insurance co?

Here is a pic of my only interstate trip. I pulled off at a rest park on I70 near
Plainfield. I was passed by many cops on I70, I 465 and I69. So why didn't they stop
me? Had they already meet their level of performance and didn't need to write more
tickets for the month. Seriously, I was told our state cops have to write so many
tickets or warnings each month or get in trouble. Is that really true?
geo
a227771.jpg
 
I wonder if the line in the rules about not blocking the lights with any part of the trailer includes the frame and ramps, and cargo for that matter.
 
What do you mean stake pockets are not tie downs points. I would say 95% the guys at tractor pulls and shows use stake pockets for tie down points. Several trailer manufactures are making 12,000lb. D ring that drop into stake pockets.
 
It's a heavy trailer, like 3,400 lbs. if I recall. You know it's back there, but trails nice. Pintle hitch, we only tow with one ton vehicles.
 
You have to be a little bit more careful when making turns. You better not get any longer trailer. When I pull trailer I always keep in mind that I need a lot of room and I have mirror set up with 3 mirror on both sides. My truck-trailer is 53 foot over all length.
a227798.jpg
 
David,
Thought of that but it wouldn't have worked the last time. Trailer side hit the guard rail before I hit the light. Something has to give. A hinge pin may shear off, then it will totally remove light, rip out the wiring. Rubber same thing. A nurf bar will have to slide the trailer and what's on it out of the way. That will damage something, the light or what I hit. Neigher are good options. Less damage if object somes in contact with side of trailer and slides off. Too bad if anything comes in contact before the stake pocket.

My first hit with the other side removed a big chunk out of a tree.

Relocation is the only option that will work, otherwise I have to give myself the Einstein award for doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time.

I see no other option other than to relocate light in a safe place. At the same time not get in the way of strapping down a load.

Back to why I posted this, where can I relocate, them still be legal and safe at the same time?

geo
 
That said, my trailer and Ray's trailer came from the factory non compliance with your post. I don't have clearance lights on my fenders. My trailer is a 14k, 18+2 and around 80 inches sure trak. Don't think my local cops really shive a get as much as everyone does here? Or perhaps they don't know.

Perhaps before everyone goes off of DOT regulations, google trailer for sale and analize them.
geo
 
D beatty,
I know I'm a trouble make on YT, but now you are siding in with me. Be warned, better not. Most think I'm a rebel without any care in the world. Just never been given a ticket for anything. At my age, I better do something wrong and get a ticket before I dye.

I notice you load your tractor the way I do. Rear wheels are over or in front of back wheel to balance out the load on tongue.
geo
 
Well help me out, need a safe place, where to mount them that won't get in the way?
Won't mess with moving the plate to the center. Unless I could find a small light to
light up the plate and not mess with the 3 center lights.
 
IF you are serious George and can get past not liking me.They(light Mfgs)make light boxes(1-2 or 3 lights),with a little thought and trial error,they can(could)be mounted in your ramps between the first-second bars or second-third bars.The boxes will protect the lights and will never get damaged.The biggest thing is USING GOOD WIRE that will stand flexing.I would use LED lights because they will stand shock better.The best thing would be for you to learn how to drive pulling a trailer,because if you are having all these problems,then you are a danger to yourself plus others.50 Dollars or so would do everything I said or more.
 
We have a couple that have a combo round light inside a section of heavy wall round pipe welded to the trailer side. Pipe section protects light assembly. Must work, been there since the 80's and a whole slew of yahoo's have pulled it
 
Can you get us a picture from this angle, but just a little farther away than your first picture up top?

I think you might be able to use a 4 inch round LED, and move it back beside the ramp mount. If so it would only stick out 2-3 inches out from the side of the trailer instead of the 10 the factory lights do.

LEDs need less clearance behind them than a standard light does.
 
(quoted from post at 22:10:39 05/26/16) We have a couple that have a combo round light inside a section of heavy wall round pipe welded to the trailer side. Pipe section protects light assembly. Must work, been there since the 80's and a whole slew of yahoo's have pulled it
I do the same thing I have them on a small 5x9 trailer that dumps. the pipe fixture hits the ground every time it dumps been on there since the early 90s. I use the cheap little round lights with the two studs sticking out the back
 
(quoted from post at 10:09:30 05/26/16) Bret, I googled and posted what I found out about Indiana somewhere. Do have anything
better? Please post.

So tell me where I can mount the lights and not damage things when trailer swings in a
turn. What I have isn't working.

Secondly, trailer has 4 D rings which I use to secure tractors. Then I use 4 more
straps and stake pockets for backup.

One time I almost put the trailer in a lake. I wasn't paying attention while leaving a
friends house. His road is about 30 feet above lake on each side. While making a right
hand turn, a steel pipe in concrete grabbed my finder and pulled trailer off the road.
I looked in mirror, saw backhoe about to tip off the trailer. I nailed the gas, pulled
the trailer back on the road and without the straps on stake pockets I'm sure the
backhoe would be in the lake. I Worked about an hour getting fender off the wheel. The
fenders is made of heavy diamond plate metal.

After that lesson, I will always use 8 straps to secure load. Didn't know stake
pockets were against the law. What is your solution? I want to strap my loads 8
ways to Sunday.

My first thought when I almost went for a swim: How am I going to explain this to my
insurance co?

Here is a pic of my only interstate trip. I pulled off at a rest park on I70 near
Plainfield. I was passed by many cops on I70, I 465 and I69. So why didn't they stop
me? Had they already meet their level of performance and didn't need to write more
tickets for the month. Seriously, I was told our state cops have to write so many
tickets or warnings each month or get in trouble. Is that really true?
geo
a227771.jpg


I don't know the first thing about Indiana law George,but that section you posted looks very, very outdated. Any place that does vehicle inspections or any police agency in your state should be able to provide you with the requirements for lighting and placement. I'd look into it were I you.

As long as you are using the d rings and not just stake pockets and meet your state tie down requirements, you're good to go. I've seen a lot of people use pieces and parts that obviously were never intended to be tie downs. I've even seen people attach a chain to the towing vehicle as a tie down point! Stake pockets and rub rails on light trailers are rarely up to snuff to act as a tie down. Use your best judgement.
 
Geo, I say this with all due respect, but if you relocate the lights, how does that make it okay to hit things with the trailer?

I know I wouldn't want some "crazy old man" smashing his trailer into anything on my place, and that's exactly what you'd become the moment the tail of that trailer grazed ANYTHING while I was looking.

Note that I am NOT calling you a crazy old man here and now. You would BECOME a "crazy old man" the second you touched anything with that trailer in my presence.
 
relocating the lights is not going to fix the problem. There are probably hundreds of thousands of trailers out there with tail lights mounted just like yours, so its not a design flaw. I believe the "technical term" for this is operator error
 

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