OT- septic/drainfield issues

BobinSD · Mar 28, 2016

Figured maybe I'd tap some of the wisdom here. Had a new drainfield installed in '07. I don't believe they did anything with the septic tank, but it looked good.

In '12 the drainfield "settled", sinking down about 8' to a foot over each pipe. Didn't see any problems till the end of this past summer. About August doing 2-3 loads of wash in a short time caused an overflow into the basement (tank full up into the riser). Had the tank pumped out and supposedly inspected, didn't seem to dirty (I think it had been 5 years since the last pumping, but we're on a well and don't normally use it real hard) and the tank supposedly looked fine.

The ground is really wet right now, but yesterday one load of wash followed by a shower caused overflow again. With very little use it was down a few inches below the riser (whatever, the round access tube that comes up to ground level) even after a few very quick showers this am (water on, wet down, water off, soap, water on rinse--mine didn't really even get warm)

Any suggestions on what to look for or what to try next? I'm guessing we'll need a new drainfield [i:654c4848f0]again[/i:654c4848f0]. Ideas? Even ideas on what to ask the local experts (assuming I can find any). There a a couple of companies that pump, and some companies that dig/install, but nobody to really say "hey, you need to ....".

Thanks,

RBoots · Mar 28, 2016

Did they install an effluent filter when they installed the new drain field? I don't know if it's code or not, but most new systems get them installed, it's a good idea either way. It allows only water out to the drain field, that way other stuff won't end up out in the drain field plugging it. If it does, and if whomever pumped it last knows anything, most pumping places know what it looks like and SHOULD pull it out and rinse it off with a hose to clean it off. It would be on the outlet of the tank.

Ross

Tim(nj) · Mar 28, 2016

OK, when you say you had a new drainfield installed, what exactly did they do?

David G · Mar 28, 2016

Drain fields here must be no deeper than about 3', how did it settle 8'?

BobinSD · Mar 28, 2016

Sorry, settled 8 inches to a foot.

I do think it's deeper than 3 feet at the deep end though. Top of tank is a good 8 feet below surface, it's piped under driveway to drain field, but very little drop (Eastern South Dakota, almost as flat as Kansas!)

BobinSD · Mar 28, 2016

Hi Tim and RBoots,

They ran a solid pipe under the gravel driveway, then branched that into three pipes for the actual field. I didn't see the actual install, but the stuff the put in looked like carpet rolls, with lots of floppy ends. I would guess the end closer to the house is 6-8 feet deep, maybe closer to 3-4 feet at the far end. The theory was that this was perforated pipe and the loose stuff around it either replaced or supplemented the gravel (I don't recall if there was additional gravel or not, I'm thinking not but I can look at the bill/pictures my wife took--I was busy @ the day job when they actually did the deal).

I don't think the last pumper cleaned an effluent filter. I can ask him. The previous guy is deceased and sold the business to the current guy. Assuming any such would be inside the tank, over the exit? (no extra digging was done, so he only accessed the inside of the tank).

I really don't think there is any code where I live. Previous system had a leach pit, coffin sized, and was "daylighted" at the end (which I probably should have done with the new--had small kids and more dogs at the time and was thinking a new field would last longer).

Bob

El Toro · Mar 28, 2016

This is why I moved to have public water and sewage. Here in MD you can not sell property
that has sewage problems. If you don't tell the new buyers the sale will be voided. Hal

David G · Mar 28, 2016

If the pipes settled more than a portion of the diameter, they will stop flowing, the field should have been bedded in aggregate in virgin or compacted earth.

dpendzic · Mar 28, 2016

looks like the drain field collapsed---will probably need to replace it---and use something like perforated drainage pipe and gravel--if the septic tank is not full of solids it is a waist of time to keep having it pumped
have you had someone do a perk test to determine how much drainage area you need?

old-9 · Mar 28, 2016

I am not an expert, that said , a lot of drainfields are higher than the tank and use a lift pump from septic to the drain field. I think however you need a new contractor to look this over and fix it the right way. joe

RMinVa · Mar 28, 2016

Here most systems have a distribution box after the septic tank and the 3 lines come out of the box. My Dad had the distribution box settle after about 20 years and only one line was taking the liquid out to the field. Dug it up, leveled distribution box and problem was over.

Spudm · Mar 28, 2016

If the ground perks, why not use a drywell instead of a drain field?

David G · Mar 28, 2016

I could see the soil settling over time on top of the structure, but seems fishy for it to settle all at once.

ohiojim · Mar 28, 2016

i've installed many leach fields and leach beds, never saw or heard of one that deep....around here they only want 8 to 10 inches of cover on the lines,...the pipe you speak of is called gravel-less tile here,..have installed it but not a big fan..

showcrop · Mar 28, 2016

Not likely that the pipes in the field would be still hooked together with that amount of settling. Once pipes come apart you loose a part of your field. In your case probably most of it, so the water can't drain from your tank. Sounds like your field was built with out the clay berm around it, so sand washed away.

Steve@Advance · Mar 28, 2016

Sounds like, for whatever reason, the soil settled into the gravel bed beneath the pipes. Once packed with soil, the gravel can no longer dissipate the water. I have no idea how to prevent this, but an experienced installer should be familiar with the problem.

I found this: http://denr.sd.gov/des/fp/septic.aspx

Evidently there are some regulations in place, can't imagine there not being, this day and age of government meddling. I know the state I live in, Texas, every septic system must be permitted, no matter how rural. They do a "perk test" which tests the soils ability to absorb water. They also consider the location in relation to wells and property boundaries. The inspector then determines what type system will be needed. The installers abide by the rules, they know they could be in big trouble, licensed or not, if someones well gets contaminated!

I think I would get a second opinion on the requirements. If the installer says he will skirt the rules, be very skeptical of his business ethics!

David G · Mar 28, 2016

Do a lot of research before picking someone or some method. I would think that a leach structure buried that deep would tend to get crushed. Make sure it is bedded in virgin earth and and clean rock. They are not allowed to be that deep here, maybe for that reason.

notjustair · Mar 28, 2016

Get that settling figured out and a perk test. My home place is in the middle of the flattest, ashiest spot in Kansas! Much of the year a post hole will fill with water before you get done setting the post. No need to bring water for the Quikrete. They put in 180 feet of lateral lines (leach field). That lasted about a year. In wet weather it didn't leach. At the far end of the runs all of the leach lines were then tied together with six inch pipe. It runs across the barnyard (300 feet) and into a pit behind the barn by the silo. The pit is 20 feet across and 10 feet deep. Is was filled with screened rock covered with fabric and dirt and lawn. From that pit there is a six inch overflow line that runs out to the draw in the pasture. It runs water out about 95 percent of the time. That's with only two of us here. Sometimes it takes extraordinary measures when the land can't get rid of the water.

W_B · Mar 29, 2016

No expert here but I'd be concerned about the design of your system. I'd think there should never be a backup into the house unless the line to the tank is clogged, once it hits the tank it should always go out the other end. The systems I've had will either bubble out the top of the lift station if the pump fails (leach field was above the house outlet line) or a leak out of the septic tank or leakage out of the leach field itself if the water doesn't leach down into the soil. My leach field pipes are not down more than a foot or so.

In my county every septic installation is under the jurisdiction of the Health Dept and requires a permit and inspection. They are just now starting a re-inspection program and there will likely be some unhappy people that have to correct their issues that have been ignored for some time. Big bugaboo was/is aeration systems that were not maintained and not functioning properly or at all. They don't allow them at all now on new builds if a regular system can be installed, but will permit them to replace an old one.

MarkB_MI · Mar 29, 2016

I guess you know who NOT to hire next time.

NoNewParts · Mar 29, 2016

lots of good suggestions....have a trusted pro take a look.
But, take care of the simple first.
Normal dirt settling over the lines? You've just created
drainages ditches without an outlet. If you ever see water
laying in them after heavy rains or snow melt....well..if water can't soak into the saturated ground...it can't disperse from the under either..
When the ground is hard, get some fill in those depressions to make things level again.

Also, get down at ground level with your eye and check the grade in that area. No surface water allowed to lay there..ever.
A walk around [i:7774aabf54]during[/i:7774aabf54] a heavy thunderstorm or rapid snow melt will tell you lots.

oh....and dripping faucets or leaky toilets will put a hurtin on a drainfield..especially during wet conditions.

4wdtom · Mar 29, 2016

I am no expert and it depends on the type of soil and drainage you have how different systems work. I was the "housing specialist" for the town home repair program for 10-12 years and we put in quite a few septic systems and generally the contractors knew what would work. Generally they were in agreement that galleys, concrete boxes with holes in them with crushed stone around and under them, worked better and were less likely to become blocked than trench systems. There is shallow galleys and standard and you can put them together to make as large a system as you want or need. The standard was 4' x 4' x 4' and the shallow was 2' x 4' x 8' I think. If the tank is in good condition it can be pumped and be fine, it is the leaching system that causes problems.

BobinSD · Mar 29, 2016

Thanks everybody. That's more than I can digest and respond to all at once. I'll probably be back with more questions once I chase down the info and links you've provided.

I did fill in over the settled trenches, and water does not sit there (one of the few places that actually slopes a little in my yard). Ground water is very high around here, digging 2-3 feet deep normally gets muddy (depending on the time of year, there is standing water in many fields now).

I'm going to run the washer and maybe the water softener out somewhere other than the septic for the short term, to buy some time to find an expert and get a better system designed.

Thanks especially for the link to the code. It's pretty general, but doesn't seem to allow the "gravel-less tile" the last guy put in. I'm also unsure if the drain tile around the footings goes into the septic. I would hope it doesn't, but I can't find anywhere else it comes out either. One of the down spouts went into that drain tile when I moved in, but I routed that out into the yard years ago. The water softener goes to the floor drains in the basement, which I now know go to the septic tank. I suspect that the salt is hard on the drainfield so I'm trying to figure a short term plan to send that out a basement window and far enough to get to the gravel barnyard (and away from my trees) as well as a longer term plan to send that elsewhere so as to not ruin a new drainfield if/when I go that route.

Does anybody have an expert to recommend in eastern south dakota or south-western minnesota?

Thanks again,

Bob

Blackhole49 · Mar 29, 2016

You don't say your situation but, if it were my house (3 acre suburban farm), I would dig up the end of one of the runs after letting everything set for a couple of days to drain down. Then run water and see if it is making it through the pipe. If it is, dig a large deep hole (backhoe) at the end of the run and fill it with float stone. Cover it with a barrier and put top soil and grass back. My former boss did this with a failed field 15 years ago and hasn't had a problem since. If water isn't making it though the runs, your screwed.

jacksun65 · Mar 29, 2016

Were your pipes about 8" in diameter? Don't know your soil conditions but sounds like you don't have a drain field anymore.

buickanddeere · Mar 29, 2016

Separate grey water drain for laundry, water softener, showers and sinks.

David G · Mar 29, 2016

That is generally not permitted in the states, anything in the house must go through tank.

GeneMO · Mar 29, 2016

Guess you couldn't get by with it anymore, but in 1984 I built a new house on the farm. Ran the entire drain system in one 4" pipe and run it 400 feet from the house and dumped it into a "draw". The draw was planted to reed canary grass. Natural filter system just like the big city and green wienie environmentalists had installed in a big city 30 miles from me.

They got all kind of awards for their "natural" approach, I guess I was ahead of my time.

My filter strip was several hundred yards long before it went into the stream. You could go down to the end and nothing buy clear water would come out.

Worked for 35 years, then I was forced to put in a septic tank to sell it. And that porbably will give trouble in a few years.

Gene

BobinSD · Mar 30, 2016

I'm thinking if I need to pay somebody to dig I'll go that route. Maybe even with a way for me to get at the grey water and use it for irrigation, if needed, but I've been warned that laundry and showers sometimes have "fecal matter" in the grey water and I shouldn't use it for surface irrigation. That would also require moving the vegetable garden to the road side of the house or pumping that water a ways.

How much salt comes out w/ the water softener? Enough to keep that separate and away from my trees, I'm guessing. (I moved here from the forest and have been planting trees like crazy since I've arrived)

BobinSD · Mar 30, 2016

Thanks. I was thinking of something like that for a stop gap. Only problem is the end of the drainfield is getting pretty close to my shelter belt (South Dakotan for "the only trees in sight") and I hate to knock 50 year old trees down, but will if I have to. I did clear several large trees to make this drainfield (they were too near the edges for my comfort, didn't want roots coming in).

BobinSD · Mar 30, 2016

Yeah. I hear that. There were two choices, and one guy kept pushing me off. It was starting to get cold and the other guy was available (now I know why).

Jim in New Mexico · Apr 5, 2016

Hi bobinsd, My email is open, Send me your phone # and I'll call you. I might have a couple ideas that will help. Jim in N.M.

W_B · Apr 6, 2016

(quoted from post at 15:15:25 03/29/16) You don't say your situation but, if it were my house (3 acre suburban farm), I would dig up the end of one of the runs after letting everything set for a couple of days to drain down. Then run water and see if it is making it through the pipe. If it is, dig a large deep hole (backhoe) at the end of the run and fill it with float stone. Cover it with a barrier and put top soil and grass back. My former boss did this with a failed field 15 years ago and hasn't had a problem since. If water isn't making it though the runs, your screwed.

My first system was leaking out the ends in wet weather and this was suggested as a fix, but they wanted me to run a pipe from all of those leach field branches across the driveway and down to a lower area and put the tank there. Was going to be pretty pricey to do and wasn't required so it didn't get done. Sold the house in dry weather so it never showed.

OT- septic/drainfield issues

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads