Family Cow

Lately I've seen a few posts about raw milk and the pros and cons. My question is how many have a family cow and what kind?
We've kept a Guernsey around since back in the 60's and never had a pasteurizer and haven't gotten sick yet.

Much depends on the cleanliness of your operation and milking procedure. In addition, prompt chilling of the raw milk is very important. The regulation of Dairy farming came from the lack of all of the above. My grand dad's 24 cows went to the knackers in 1955 as the regulations became tight on handling, and low grade milk was near worthless and that was it. Jim

Had one when I was a kid, Jersey/Guernsey cross Dad would milk in the mornings, me in the afternoon.
But we did pasteurize.
I think that rich milk would kill me now.
Fred

Can't understand this craze to drink raw milk. Raw milk has no significant health benefits over pasteurized milk. Raw milk has many opportunities to carry bacterial growths that will make you sick ! Listeria , E coil , campylobacter and TB. just to name a few. I know many celebrities endorse such dietary choices, but many of them die from drug abuse, depression, alcoholism , and other poor life decisions. Why follow the diet fads of fools, while the opinions of proven health science tells a very different story. Milk is a perfect medium to grow bacteria . All this being stated , many folks will still take unnecessary risks every day, some drive like idiots , some take illegal drugs , the list goes on. Why take the chance of making your family sick , to maybe save a few bucks? Milk is cheap , readily available, safe and good for you too! Bruce , a life long Dairyman.

OH Bruce you done did it now.
I said basically this same thing a few days ago talking about countertop pasteurizers.

I got slammed for it and was told things like......
You still have a lot to learn about milk production.

I can understand not wanting homogenized milk.
But to drink un-pasteurized milk is like playing Russian roulette no matter how clean you think your operation is.

I guess you don't take any from your bulk tank for yourself? If you can't taste the difference you must be milking Holsteins or some other low fat high volume breed.

For a few days I've been reading about the subject of raw milk. I was raised on raw milk and sold raw milk for over 30 years. I was never sick because of drinking the milk nor did any of my customers ever complain. I always tried to be very clean about milking and handling the milk. I would always cool the milk as soon as I was finished milking the cows on an old fashioned water cooled plate cooler before the milk went into the gallon jugs. Then the jugs went into a refrigerator and waited for the customers to pick up their milk. I had a friend who worked in a lab at a larger dairy plant test my milk on a few occasions and it was always way above what was required for a grade A dairy. Yes, I was fussy about my milk handling because I wanted to provide the best milk possible to my customers. I would wash and sanitize all my equipment after every milking and sanitize everything before milking. Udders were always washed with an iodine solution before milking. None of the milk was was ever pasturized by my customers and they were always well satisfied with my milk. The milk was always picked up the day it was milked from the cows and didn't sit in the cooler for more than a day.
Anyone who thinks the store bought milk is good stuff needs to do some checking online and read about "ultra pasturized milk". It is ultra pasturized to prolong the shelf life of the milk, if that's what you want to call it. As I've read, it really doesn't even to be refrigerated and it will keep for months. The only reason it's refrigerated in the stores is because we're used to our milk being refrigerated. Many store are now selling milk in boxes on the shelf, not refrigerated but still have the same milk in the coolers.
Most people nowadays drink the watered down milk skim,1% or 2% which is about like drinking water but that's ok of that's what they like.
I'm over 70 years old and still drink the real stuff and seldom have a cold or any kind of other sickness' and oh,, by the way, I don't take any prescription drugs either. Whether or not this has anything to do with the milk I drink or have used all these years, I don't know, but I must be healthy for some reason. I like to believe I have a good immune system built up from the good milk I was raised on.
In my opinion, the dairy industry and government has done a good job of scaring people from drinking raw milk. Back 20 years ago there were at least 4 small dairies selling all the raw milk they could produce, now there are none. Not because no one would buy the milk but because the operators finally retired from milking. Nowadays a few would drink the raw milk but the new generation thinks it's poison.
Oh well, to each his own.
Dick

We have 3/4 Jersey, 1/4 Guernsey cross milkers. Been drinking raw milk since I could drink. Never any adverse affects. Around here (Amish country) pasteurized milk is tossed out if they happen to accidently get some. Basically worthless when it comes to nutritional value.

You make a good case, Bruce, and I agree with you. Want to talk about all the idgits eating raw fish these days? Maybe review the growing stats on tapeworm and other fun topics related to same? Had my fill of people who want to fly in the face of logic today. Started off the day listening to a 60 year old man explaining how he did not need health insurance because he had auto insurance that covered injuries sustained while driving. I made the mistake of trying to persuade him otherwise and got just what I was asking for...irritated.

John he raises jerseys. Good assumption though.

There was a lot of talk about that UHT milk when I was involved with the co op. I don't know that it was intended for every day consumers,nor is it readily available.

Like you,I was raised on raw milk,so were my kids,but,and I might be dead wrong about this,I think if you drink it every day,have the bacteria on your hands,clothes,breath it in,so you have an immunity to it,it's fine. I just don't know how wise it is to start drinking it,or drink it occasionally if you don't have constant exposer. I wouldn't take the risk anymore of drinking it from somebody else's farm if pasteurized was available.

Full fat milk has nothing to do with pasteurization. Common misconception. Our milk is currently testing 5.30 butter fat. 3.99 protein.

OOPS!!! That crow sure does taste tuff.
But I'll bet the milk I'm drinking from one healthy cow is cleaner and has less e-coli or bacteria then what comes out of most bulk tanks! I worked on a couple of dairy farms in my 64 years and I've seen what goes through those milkers and gets caught in the screens, that's why it needs pasteurization.

You sir are perpetuating a myth.

Heat will change the taste at about 140? but you need 160? and hold it for longer period for pasteurization or even higher temp for flash pasteurizing like commercial operation use, taste changes when cooked.
My question was what breed are people keeping at home for their own use, not for selling for others to drink.

Wrong. If you work daily with your cattle you developed a level of immunity similar to theirs. I am allergic to the adhesives on band aids and as such, never covered an open cut on my hands, and while milking one would be constantly exposed to bugs. Don't, recall how many times I have repaired a stable cleaner or manure spreader with a small cut or cuts on my hands, or incurring a cut while doing so and never had an infection set it. My brother has an A1 dairy operation, but I hesitate drinking maw milk there simply because I am not exposed to the strain of bugs on his farm. Ben

French Canadienne

Old, Old joke. Lady of the house meets the milkman at the door one day and says I'd like enough so that I can have a milk bath, I'm told it's good for the skin. He says pasteurized, she says, no just up to my t***.

Lab test......2 groups of rats, one fed cereal and milk, the other cereal only. Second group slowly starved to death...... .Ben

Bruce, you brought up some good points in your post.
During my many years of milking, never more than 10 cows I was around a lot of manure. I know how it is when the cows are out on spring grass and let it fly in the barn, it goes everywhere, as you know. I've been spattered too many time to count as I'm sure you have too on your larger dairy. As I understand, many of the bacterial growths come from manure contamination. Not trying to be a smart a$$, how many of these sickness' have you had? You're working with manure everyday for all of your life. If you haven't fallen victim to any of these illness' I would say, like rrlund stated, you have a good immunity built up. I guess my point being, due to regulations and people being scared, they have become more prone to being infected by the illness' you mentioned. I agree that probably most of the huge dairy operations need to have their milk pasteurized and homogonized and I probably wouldn't want to drink their raw milk.
Again, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that anyone working around cows is exposed to manure contamination on a daily basis buy don't fall victim to the sickness' you mentioned. I guess we're just toughen up to these sickness'. I never have encourage anyone to drink raw milk, it's their choice. As for myself, I want to believe it has kept me healthy all these years. Would pasteurized milk have had the same effect, possibly.
One last question Bruce: Do you dip your house milk out of your bulk tank and do you pasteurize your house milk?

Thank you for the healthy discussion,
Dick

I always liked this one.
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The only cow in a small Iowa town stopped giving milk. The people did some research and found that they could buy a cow, for $200, just across the state line in Wisconsin. They bought a cow and found it produced lots of milk, and they were very happy.

It was then decided to acquire a bull to produce more cows like it. They would never have to worry about their milk supply again.

They bought the bull and put it in the pasture with their beloved cow. However, whenever the bull came close to the cow it would move away. No matter what approach the bull tried, the cow would move away and he could not succeed in his quest. The people were very upset and decided to ask the vet what to do.They told him what was happening, "Whenever the bull approaches our cow, she moves away. If he approaches from the back, she moves forward, if he approaches her from the front, she backs off. If he approaches from the side she walks away to the other side.

The vet thought about this for a moment and asked, "Did you, by any chance, buy this cow in Wisconsin?"The people were dumbfounded, since no one had ever mentioned where they bought the cow. "That's amazing," they said, "how did you know we bought the cow in Wisconsin?

The vet replied, "My wife's from Wisconsin."

We have Jersey and Jersey crosses, but thats for the lambs to drink. For human milk off the farm it comes from either Nubian or LaMancha goats. Much better than cows milk IMO. But of course, in both cases, good health of the animal and cleanliness are essential.

I'll say this about the raw milk issue. Considering the crap people eat these days, processed and stored who knows how, is raw milk really such a risk? I've inspected trucks supplying food to restaurants and I've seen things that would make you ill. And the trucks supplying chinese places? I've seen shrimp stored in a spare tire on a hot August day because there was no more room in the truck. Or the food imported from other nations where Juan or Mohamed hacks a big gob of TB laden spit onto the greens for the gringos? Not enough cold water washes in the world to make me eat that.

I've had milk from inspected and passed dairies that you would swear the cow stuck her foot in. The manure taste was that bad, I spit it out immediately. I'll take clean, raw milk over that trash any day.

Good one !

The bacteria in raw milk doubles every 18 minutes that the milk is above 40 degrees. That's not 1,2,3,4... It's 1,2,4,8,16,32....
We occasionally had counts on official tank samples as low as 2000,but the average is obviously higher than that. The point is,that bacteria is there in raw milk. Proper handling will keep it down,but pasteurization will kill it. Why risk it for a food fad if you don't have to,that's all I'm asking.

Here's the requirements for premiums paid by Michigan Milk Producers ASSN for bacteria counts.

A premium payment of 5?/cwt. will be added for each of the following, if the count is equal to, or below:
?10,000 Raw Bacteria Count
?20,000 Pre-Incubated (PI) Count

There will be a deduction of 10?/cwt. for the following criteria:
?Greater than 100,000 Raw Bacteria Count

So as you can see,there's a good incentive for producing high quality milk. If you don't,you won't just loose premiums,you'll loose your permit to sell it.

The dairy that picked up the milk from the bulk tank would always take a sample of the milk for testing but he would also drink a cup of milk from the tank. I assumed he did this at every stop he made. He always seemed healthy.

How the H3LL did this turn into a Pasteurization topic I was asking what breed people kept. I wish I hadn't mentioned pasteurizer.

Around here they only people who drink pasteurized milk are city slickers who don't know any better.

Have you ever seen a thread on here stay on topic? lol

Well Dick you make some valid points but,there is no way to become immune to E coil H 57, or Listeria , or TB. Cleanliness will not protect us completely ,but it sure helps. Over the past 35 years I have never been non grade A , and we have never received a milk Quality penalty. Every shipment of milk from our farm is sampled. While we do take milk to the house from our barn ,it is cooked. We always buy milk to serve to guests . I am very happy for you enjoying good health. I too have been as healthy as a Hog my whole life thus far. Good food and hard work, and no bad habits goes a long ways toward this end I believe. Supporting the hard working Dairy farmers in your home state by buying the milk that is produced locally is a healthy choice. I would never hesitate to buy milk in the U.S. or Canada, as safe food standards in our countries are among the best in the world.

Education is the most important issue here. If all you have heard is the never wrong government warnings, or big AG business studies then Raw milk is bad. Take time and read, the research of the Weston A. Price foundation You will learn a different side to the subject. Bottom line is ,healthy cows give healthy milk. If a farmer is afraid to drink his own milk, then just how clean of a ship does he run??? Holsteins have a different type milk than a Jersey or Guernsey cow. Most milk them it the parlor guys have never heard this. Read up on it. The proteins and amino acids are different. Grass fed to silage will change things. Its all about how the cows are fed and cared for. Lots of guys talk about unsafe milk. So how many people can say they got sick from raw milk? Not how many have heard of a guy, or Friend of a friend, but first hand? Not my tummy got upset, but to the hospital, or in bed sick??? Maybe a few, but way less than those who drink it. Now ask who has got sick from bad burger, or brought home some milk from the store that smelled off? This stuff was inspected, so it should be safe. Most guys who oppose raw milk are just jealous cause they have to sell their milk for what they are told they will be paid. Those who sell raw milk set their own price. Yes I drink raw milk, my children drink it, my folks drank it, and yes I sell it. Mine is organic grass fed. If you feel mine is unsafe, then go buy it in the store. I dont wave a flag screaming on a soap box how Unhealthy most commercial dairy farms are. So why do they attack those who choose to do things the traditional way? The God I believe in invented raw milk, I will leave it alone. By the way , pasteurization was invented before we had a refrigerator. Doesn't this seem outdated?? Enough from me ,, I have a date with a few jerseys.

Bruce, As we both know, as well as any others who have been a dairyman past or present, there's nothing easy about a dairy operation. It's a 365 days a year job with no days off. I would say it's the most demanding of any farming operation. Makes no difference if you milking two cows or 100, you have to be there twice a day. Well, with 100 cows it takes longer to milk, feed and clean up.
You know a whole lot more about the different kinds of bacteria than I do but as rrlund said, all milk has bacteria and it multiplies fast if not handled properly. The faster the milk can be cooled the better, I always believed. I would dump my milk from the milker into a bucket, carry it to the milkhouse, pour it through the strainer into a receiving tank hung from the wall. I have a Gregory milk cooler which consists of rack of pipes that have ice cold water running through the pipes. I pumped the water out of a DeLaval ice bank can cooler. As the ice cold water passed through the rack of pipes it was instantly cooled to ice cold milk then into the jugs. For those who can't understand what these coolers would look like, do a google search for gregory milk cooler and there are images of what they look like. I think they were invented to chill the milk before they went into milk cans before the bulk tank days. I think back then the cold water would be pumped out of a well. I have a 5 can ice bank can cooler that would form a block of ice around a coil of copper tubing and had a circulating propeller that would keep the cold water moving that the cans were submerged in. So, within 1 minute of the milk being dumped out of the milker it was ice cold which I always believed stopped the bacteria growth. Other larger dairies in the area with bulk tanks would dump their milk through a strainer into the bulk tank mixing hot milk with cold. Must have been ok but I wouldn't think it was as good as an instant chill like the plate cooler I used. Maybe nowadays with pipeline systems there is a type of inline cooler to instantly cool the milk before it enters the bulk tank. I'm sure you know all about cooling milk and I'm not trying to educate you, I'm trying to explain how it used to be done for those who don't know.
Clean milk is healthy milk and as you mentioned hard work, healthy food and a clean lifestyle is important to a healthy life. I guess I've just been lucky all these years.

A very interesting topic and thank you for your input.
Dick

Russian roulette? How the heII do I keep winning at that for 48 years?