OT - Older Sheds, Floors and Bees.....

We got a couple of old sheds on our farm that in their day were a sheep shed and the other a chicken house. If I'm out there later today, I'll take and post some pics. For now they are essentially abandoned and left for falling down some day. They are at least 100 years old or more.

These buildings probably could hold 200ish square bales of hay each - with a little work. Their roofs seems to be OK - old tin and the sides are OK too. The floors are non-existent in the sheep shed and just about rotted out on the old chicken house. These sheds are built on big rocks at each corner, no foundation. I consider them as shells with no real structure to put significant weight on or tie into for that purpose.

For the floors, what I'm thinking about doing is basically building a "tray" for lack of a better word as a floor in each building. It would be a self supporting floor that sets to the inside of the building on the ground - but structurally does not tie into it in any way. This way, all the weight of the floor from hay is totally on the floor and the old sheds aren't required to bear any load - they can continue to be free standing "shells" - keeping the elements off the hay.

I thought about just taking up the floors and using gravel and might still do it - but without the floors, the ground is very unlevel, there is goodly step down into the buildings and I think a wooden floor will give some air circulation vs gravel, even with pallets.

Trays for floors - what do you think?

Bees....

These two buildings are Meccas for wasps, hornets and anykind of bee with a stinger and an abundent willingness to use it! Anything I can spray on the interior to discourage nest building? I thought about some used motor oil mixed with kerosene as a wood preservative and a deterant to the bees. Something they'd turn their noise up at. I've already been warned by one of my boys that if they get I the top of the barn and get lit up by a bee nest - I'm on my own for the balance of the day - LOL! Not sure I want to be doing anything with used oil other than taking it for recycle.

Any ideas on preventing bees?

Thanks!
Bill

well, creosote, carbola and ddt are prolly out of the question. a lot of the marinas in arkansas use wd 40 to spray on outboard motors that sit so the mud daubers dont build nests under the engine cover. maybe try a gallon of wd 40 in a pump sprayer and dust the inside of the building (if not too big).

Dunno how big but if you sink some 4x4 in the ground you could build a self supporting deck inside each building to hold hay. This would be my first choice if I was going to try to use these for several years. Hay does not like the ground except in a few very dry parts of the country. Only issue is that some of these old buildings have a lot of stone buried in the floor. Looks like dirt up top, lots of small to large rock below. Make you want to cry digging post holes.

Used pallets are free or cheap. Use a bit of muscle power to level out the floor and lay in pallets to put the hay on. Replaceable and "cheap" Choose a supplier that uses the type that has only an inch or so between boards or you can have twisted ankles. Jim

You have winter there, so the wasps, yellow jackets, hornets and such start over every season. One of the easiest ways to rid the buildings of them is to get all of them early. They start out small and though you may have one round of this or potentially 2 or 3, each time they are not established, its when you let them go, they get huge. In all the barns we've had over the years, its incredible the size of the nests in the rafters, our barns were large ones with high ceilings, those high up nests, big oval open cell paper nests, were never any concern being far enough away, closer ones were destroyed early. The one old barn at our stable is a magnet for yellow paper wasps or yellow jackets, they prosper and can be aggressive. Its a lot worse towards mid summer and or late summer when they are at a peak, weather depending. Smaller out buildings like you have described, just get them early, monitor until gone. White Faced Hornets start out with one, and a small nest that grows over time, get it early, and its done for the season. We don't have a lot of those around here, but every so often I will find one in a tree or large bush.

If it were mine I would fill it in to grade with cheap gravel and then put about 4 inches of coarse crushed rock, 1/2-2 inch. A suspended wood floor will only be a haven for snakes and rodents, some people use pallets under hay, I use them under firewood, but they attract rodents, but the wood dries well! I am not familiar with what a tray floor would be. Put some new bracing on your buildings and maintain the roofs, they will last forever!

We use heavy black plastic sheeting and pallets in our hay barn that has a dirt floor. The plastic keeps the moisture out of the hay and the pallets are free.

This my sound silly and it might not work for you, but we have found that fabric softener sheets that you put in the dryer will repel bees and yellow jackets. We put a sheet in our mail box every spring to keep them from nesting. Later in the summer when we are eating out side, we put several on the picnic table and will keep the yellow jackets away. This may not work in a large area like a barn, but it is something to think about. The real down side to the softener sheets is the stink. You might just decide the bees are better than the smell.

Here is what I had in mind for the "tray"

Free standing within the building's parameter. Legs on the ground.

Bill

That would work fine. I would just make the 4x4 a little longer and put them a ways into the ground to help stabilize things. Floor with enough air space will not be any more of a mouse haven than the bales themselves. Snakes will like it under there but any snake that is not poisonous is an asset and probably there to help with the mice which are a menace. Always amazes me that people will tolerate rodents and freak out over one snake. Rodents have killed untold millions through disease. All a snake does is awaken your inner girl.

Hi, I had a similar shed on the place when I first came here. I knocked the sheeting off a few rows on the walls at the bottom. I stuck a timber through from one side to the other front and back. Jacked it up.Then dug it out under the walls about a foot. I built a footing and used 2x10 form for walls.I mixed cement with my mixer. The building was a bit short for my purpose so I scabbed longer studs onto existing ones. Set aplate down on bolts, lowered the blg. Toe nailed the studs to plates. Sheeted bottom again. Put gravel for floor. Perfect for me! My sprayer has a home. Ed Will

If you were to take a paint sprayer and go over the inside of the building with used oil it will keep them out. DO it in the spring about the time they start nesting and again just before the hay goes in. It will keep them out. You have do the whole thing inside rafters included. This will also keep the pests out of the wood. You do not need to oil the floor.
If you are putting man killers in there for a couple of hundred I would just use the pallets or use 4x4's with boards over them. It would cost more than the building is worth to put the floor you are talking about in side.

I think that your "trays" will attract various pests. The loose hay and chaff will make it next to impossible to clear them out. Like Russ said, I would get a load of cheap gravel, so that it will not retain moisture, and bring them up to grade. You could then put pallets down, then pick them up as the hay goes away. I have stacked hay on pallets in many customer's barns.

Janicholson and I could be brothers. I put used pallets in an old chicken coop and in an old shed years ago. I store a couple hundred small square bales in them every year. Unless you plan to entertain the Queen in there, I wouldn't worry too much about their being level or real neat. I'm an old man, but even I can navigate the variations.

I keep a can of Black Flag brand wasp and hornet spray in every building on the farm. It knocks them dead instantly.

Tom in TN

Bill VA:

"Any ideas on preventing bees?"

Try some of these . . . .

HTH

I've stored hay on pallets and had lots more rodent damage than leaving it on the dirt. I recognize that for horses you don't want the little bit of rot that you get on the bottom.

Filling with soil, sand, gravel will work, then put a vapor barrier down and put six inches of course rock, I would use three inch rock and roll it down. You don't want to sell rocks in your hay, and large rock will not stick to the hay.

Your tray design is OK, but place the deck boards tight to keep the vermin out. Hay stores very good on elevated lumber floors. Calculate the load on each column, you'll know why everyone puts down footings. You may need more legs or a TEE on the bottom of the legs. You probably should not plan on more than 1,000 lbs per square foot ground bearing to avoid settling. 500 lbs would be better. A 4x4 (3-1/2"x3'1/2") is only 0.085 square feet, so at 1,000 lbs per square foot, the end of a 4x4 is safe holding 85 lbs. One bale of hay at 67 lbs leaves 18 lbs for the structure. As was suggested, if you bury the 4x4 with a footing underneath, even one square foot, gives you 1,000 lbs to work with. 18" square footing gives you a ton per leg, 30 bales per leg, so for 200 bales you need 8 legs with 18" footings.

You can argue over how much ground load is acceptable, but unless you know, 1,000 lbs is safe. Really good solid is only about 2,500 psf.

You'll find gravel to be cheaper.

Good luck with that, the deck boards will shrink anyway. Lumber you buy nowadays isn't kiln dried like it used to be. It's good to have a little daylight between the decking to allow it to breathe and not trap moisture.