Well.... Thats Kind Of Odd??

Went out to move the backhoe around today, imagine that, it wouldn't start... Nothing new there though, it is always hard starting in the winter. Jumped it with the truck, and it was immideatly clear that the fuel was gelled in it!! All of the lines and pump were somewhat jelled up, but the tank was not (12 here last night). Figured because i wasn't planning on using it much in the next few weeks, and it still has about 5 gallons of summer fuel in it, that I would add some "No-Gel" that a buddy gave me.

I have two buckets, both are brand new, with the seals on them. They say that they treat up to 12,000 gallons, so, I figured they would last me a life time! I tried to get some out, and they are both SOLID! Like, the NO GEL is GELLED UP! What?!?! How does that happen???

Brought one of the buckets in the house by the wood stove, just to see what will happen, but I am guessing that the stuff is probably trash huh?? What do you guys think?

I think it is unlikely that youhave a gelling issue that bad even with summer fuel at 12 deg. It's much more likely that you have an icing problem at that temp. It can be hard to tell the difference so check closely because it won't doany good to treat an icing problem with antigel. As far as thick antigel, I have seen some get thick at very cold temps, but only at well below zero so I would be suspicious of what you have.

Well, looking at the jugs, it is older, I would guess 90's stuff. It is cheap enough, I think I am just going to replace it.

How do I combat an icing issue? Tractor is a 1974 Ford 4400. Has a loader and hoe on it. ALWAYS very hard starting in the winter unless the engine is spinning over very quickly, and takes ether (which I hate) to get it going. Sometimes it needs some ether in the summer as well if it has been sitting for awhile, but once warmed up, summer or winter, it will fire right off, no problems.

Puffs white smoke while cranking, and I believe it to be low on power. Which I think that is Injector Issues right? I bought some Diesel Service stuff, which came well reccomended. It is SUPPOSED to clean / lube injectors and pumps, and is also a Centane booster. Think that will help it, or should I pull the injectors and clean them or?? I know very little about diesels... I sure like them though....

It could be an injector? But I have a Ford 4610 with 201 ci 3cylinder diesel with 4200 hours on it and iv never touched the injectors, what kind of fuel do u use out there? On road, off road or heating oil? I have done 2 things with my diesel tractors, I run power service in them for the winter, and I add a little 2cycle oil to the diesel fuel, I use home heating oil in my tractors. I don't know if that helps me any, but iv never had a problem with my tractors. Do you have a block heater on your 4400? I agree with you I would not put the anti gel you have in your tractor. I'm not sure if its close to the same engine as mine but iv worked with 3 Cylinder ford diesels for 25 years and there very reliable engines.

Sounds more like you have low compression rather than injector problems, white smoke not enough heat from low compression) to ignite the fuel cleanly.

The best way to check whether you have a gelling or icing issue is to pull the filter and rig it so it drains into a glass and let it thaw, if you end up with water in the glass you know it's icing. Either way you will likely have to replace the filters and flush the system. If it's gelling add antigel, if it's icing also add real isopropyl. For antigel I use Howes brand which is by far the most popular with truck drivers, at least 10-1 over other brands. As far as the starting issue I don't know about those fords so I can't help there.

Farmers like Power Service around here for some reason.

When Runnings has a sale on both, the PS shelf goes empty, the Howes has maybe 1/3 sold off.

I got Howes once because I hear it recommended here;, the plastic container they use shatters at 10 degrees, I was not happy. I went back to PS, has worked for me.

Paul

I don't know anything about how that particular engine starts but compression that is not up to what it should be can cause hard starting. The lower compression might not be an indication of a worn engine. Someone could have ground the valves, recessing them just a touch, lowering the compression a little. You are at a moderately higher elevation with a little thinner air. I'm sure that doesn't help the situation.

I agree with J. Schibert too, prolly a compression problem. In 1993 I worked on a huge horse farm, they had a Ford 1900 that we used on the feeder wagon to pull grain and hay out to the fields to fed the horses. They had well over 300 horses at the time, anyway the 1900 ran non stop from when I started in January right threw to May, one day I get back from feeding with it, it was like 85 degrees out that day in Mayso I figure it was ok to shut it off, the crew yelled you can't shut that tractor off, I couldn't believe the thing would not restart! Lol. They had to get the mechanic to get it started again!

I would get new fuel treatment and also a fuel deicer. You may have both a gel problem and frozen water. Another thing is your summer fuel bio-diesel???? It will gel at a much higher temperature than regular diesel. We used to use it here but found out real quick to stop using it in about Sept. so it all was used out of the fuel tanks of everything before cold weather.

For help starting your backhoe when it is cold. Do you have a space heater??? Set it to where it is blowing on the intake side of the motor. Then put a large piece of plywood or card board on the other side. That will help contain the heat. You can easily start most motors in about 15-20 minutes of heating them.

You should also just put a coolant heater on it. Plug it in and let it warm up. The cost of the heater and electric is cheap compared to the damage cold starting does to the motor and starting system.

I really doubt your fuel is gelled at 12, but has water in it that froze, get it all warmed up, then dump in fresh winter fuel with abut a cup of power services.

A block heater would be your best bet Bryce. It will keep the head and cylinders warm, that's what you need since that's where combustion takes place. It will also radiate to your oil as well but oil heats up quick under pressure once it's running. Does your tractor have glow plugs? If so I would check each one. They get red hot but if they don't get red at the tip they're bad. Taking them out and checking them with a good battery is the best way.

Thats what I have, Power Service in the Grey bottle... Seemed good on paper?!

Bryce, does your Ford have the "flame thrower" cold start apparatus on it? It would be screwed in the intake manifold and have a couple fuel lines going to it, and a wire, usually a spade connection. They work "ok", but I will agree that a block heater is best. If parked off site or out in the woods, look for a propane coolant heater. A lot of the logging stuff I have been around in the north has them, mostly older stuff.

Ross

Many fuel additives are not supposed to freeze before mixing them with fuel. Had major problems with a barrel of additive that had turned out to have frozen in shipping likely and was separating in the 10,000 gallon tank at work. Once it has frozen it's usually junk.

Jay, friend of mine has a ford 1700 that was almost impossible to start unless it was over 70 degrees .Would fire right off if tow started . Turned out it needed new valve seats and a couple new valves. Fires right up now even when its cold out. Bill in western Ny

I really don't know what was wrong with that tractor, could be what you said about the 1700. It amazed me how they left 3 tractors running all night, 2, a ford 4600 and a I think 540 ford industrail loader tractor because they had no block heaters. The 1900 stayed running also as it would not restart. It was a strange almost eriee feeling walking out of one of the barns at 9pm on a cold January night and hear the tractors ideling. Lol, the farm did have 3 shifts so the tractors were used over night at some point.

I don't know about the ant-gel gelling up but, one day I stopped at the auto parts store to grab some ANTIFREEZE? It was a new shipment had been delivered overnight and was left outside. It was -10 that night and it was frozen solid. The parts guy said it was fine that it needed to be mixed with water to activate it.

Steven

The grey bottle is for summer use only its a cleaner and lubricity additive and cetane improver the white bottle power service is for winter

white smoke in cooler weather is normal when cranking,, it means its getting fuel and its trying to burn.... white smoke while cranking in hot weather is usually a problem as it should fire up in a couple of cranks and go clean in 30 seconds or less.

1st off, a can of BG 244k will clean the injectors if they are dirty and help it start quicker and reduce white smoke.

2nd.. good battery connections, especially at the starter solenoid are needed as this engine needs to be cranked very fast to start. These fords are notorious about the starter connections getting corrosion on them and cranking slow. Any warm or hot connection is indicator of bad connection.

3rd... most fords have a air heater on the front of the manifold.. this also has a diesel line connected to it... Running this heater for 20 seconds before cranking will greatly help it start when below 60 degrees. Depending on which ig switch you have.. some you turn to left of off to activate the heater... others with newer switches... you turn the switch to "on", and then just a bit more till the red lights on the dash go out, but your not cranking yet.... to activate the heater... hold for 20 seconds and then crank.. This heater is located at front of manifold, just behind where the rubber connector hose is near radiator... facing inside.. you will see a spade lug connection and a fuel line on it.. This ""thermostart" was however an option, and you could just see a cap nut on the manifold. After holding in preheat position for 20 seconds, the front of the manifold should be too hot to touch, if the heater is working.


4th... "fuel shut off" has a screen on the inside of fuel tank and can really restrict the fuel flow, especially when cold... You must have fuel flow out of tank...

5th.. 1st fuel filter is a water trap and will trap and hold water. This should be drained till clean fuel comes out. If this filter is allowed to fill up with water, the second filter will also hold water. Newer tractors only had one filter, Older ones had two.

6th.. a block heater is best way to start any tractor when cold, easy on starter and battery and engine.


Golden rule..

ALWAYS park tractors near air supply, and electrical... never leave in field.. or you will come back to a flat, broken bead, low battery etc... keep your equipment close to air line and keep a battery maintainer on them.