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J

JOCCO

Well-known Member
Have you ever dabbled with the MM (Minneapolis Moline) Brothers to your olivers? like 750 950 etc??? What about the cockshutt versions? Are there any in your area? Yes I am a fan of the yellow paint!!!!
 
Once in a while there'll be a 750 or 850 turn up at a show. They're few and far between. My 1365 was red and had the Cockshutt decals when I got it. I painted it green and put new decals on. It has the Brantford tag. The tag just says White Farm Equipment,doesn't say Oliver or Cockshutt. I guess that's just implied with the Brantford tag.
There's an online Oliver collector auction going on right now over by Port Huron,has a Cockshutt 1650 gas on it. It's sitting at $2800 right now. That's one that would be a shame to strip down.
There's a nice looking Oliver 1600 on there that's at $2800 right now too,but that one's got a decent restoration on it,so I wouldn't want to start taking things off that one either.
 
I am not old by any stretch but I am old enough to remember when the area White-MM dealer would jockey them in from out west. Seems to me one sat at that dealer for quite a while even though there was nothing run with it. Fast forward a bunch of years and everybody had the collector bug for the yellow Olivers. Probably could of snapped yellow Olivers up for 3-4000 dollars per good tractor back in the 1980's on average. Every once in a great while that same dealer will get one in nowadays but no bargain like 30 years ago. I was told by a White corporate man that the machinery at the Moline plant was getting seriously wore out in the late 1960's and that was the big reason the smaller MM tractors were discontinued. No doubt the White bean counters liked the consolidation aspect of one production line for both brands.
 
By that time,White Motors was about broke. They were painting yellow tractors green,green tractors yellow,using the back half of one tractor and the front half of another,you name it. Whatever it took to supply dealers with tractors to sell.
 
I am surprised from an accounting stand point they did not close one of the two plants by the late 1960's. Maybe a Moline guy here can tell me for sure but I think the Minneapolis plant ran to 1975. If there was no intention to make serious improvements to the design of either with the resources under one roof might have meant maybe the more durable large cube MM motors in the 1855 and 1955 with some modification. Maybe having designed something in the 400 plus cubic inch range for the 1855, 1955, and 2150 tractors. I suppose the reality even by 1969 was it was cheaper to buy a Perkins or Hercules versus build in house.
 
They put that 585 Moline engine in the Plainsman and the Oliver 2655. They kept on using it right on up in to the White 2-150. They didn't go to a Hercules until the White 2-135 and 2-155. I think they used an even bigger displacement Moline LP version in the 2655 and Plainsman.
 
I thought the 2150 used the Herc 478? I was thinking that maybe MM under one roof at Charles City could have built a next generation engine along the lines of the 504. Did they not make a 451 CI engine? Maybe built a new generation 451 that could have been turbo'd for a 125 hp tractor?
 
I don't know about the 451. Must have been a Moline engine? Ya,the 2050 and 2150 used a Hercules. The Moline and Oliver G1355s were the same tractor,they used the 585. That was the tractor that became the White 2-150. I don't remember there being an in between tractor that used a Hercules. They did the same thing with the 354 Perkins though,discontinued it for a while. They used it in the 1850,but then the 1855 used that blasted 310 Waukesha that didn't hold up. They went back to the 354 in the White 2-85 and 2-105. If they'd put it in the 1855 with those improved hydraulics and brakes,they would have really had something there.
 
The 451 was the MM engine used in the G900 tractor. Like I said about the late 1960's either the 451 or 504 should have been upgraded to a next generation which would have gone in the Oliver's. Something that could have run around 2100 RPM to better work in the Oliver drive line. I think the 451 was not as long as the 504 so it would adapt better to the Oliver frame.
 
I remember talking to a MM dealer during the consolidating of the two lines. He said MM was better because they had two coats of paint. Yellow over green. He called them Molivers.
 
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